I''ve seen a webpage (a blog, IIRC) which compares the performance of RAIDZ with differing numbers of disks in each RAIDZ group. I can''t now find this, and can''t seem to find the right things to get google to search on. Does anyone recall where this is? ISTR the optimum number of disks was 5-6. -- Cheers Andrew
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Andrew Gabriel <Andrew.Gabriel at sun.com> wrote:> I''ve seen a webpage (a blog, IIRC) which compares the performance of > RAIDZ with differing numbers of disks in each RAIDZ group. I can''t nowhttp://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ZFS_Best_Practices_Guide section: RAID-Z Configuration Requirements and Recommendations> find this, and can''t seem to find the right things to get google to > search on. Does anyone recall where this is? ISTR the optimum number of > disks was 5-6. > > -- > Cheers > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >-- Asif Iqbal PGP Key: 0xE62693C5 KeyServer: pgp.mit.edu
Andrew, http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ZFS_Best_Practices_Guide#RAID-Z_Configuration_Requirements_and_Recommendations "The recommended number of disks per group is between 3 and 9. If you have more disks, use multiple groups." Odd that the Sun Unified Storage 7000 products do not allow you to control this, it appears to put all the hdd''s into one group. At least on the 7110 we are evaluating there is no control to allow multiple groups/different raid types. Tom ----- "Andrew Gabriel" <Andrew.Gabriel at Sun.COM> wrote:> I''ve seen a webpage (a blog, IIRC) which compares the performance of > RAIDZ with differing numbers of disks in each RAIDZ group. I can''t now > > find this, and can''t seem to find the right things to get google to > search on. Does anyone recall where this is? ISTR the optimum number > of > disks was 5-6. > > -- > Cheers > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Asif Iqbal wrote:> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Andrew Gabriel <Andrew.Gabriel at sun.com> wrote: >> I''ve seen a webpage (a blog, IIRC) which compares the performance of >> RAIDZ with differing numbers of disks in each RAIDZ group. I can''t now > > http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ZFS_Best_Practices_Guide > > section: > RAID-Z Configuration Requirements and RecommendationsThanks. I had found that, but there is another blog somewhere which compared the performance of RAIDZ''s built with different values.>> find this, and can''t seem to find the right things to get google to >> search on. Does anyone recall where this is? ISTR the optimum number of >> disks was 5-6.-- Cheers Andrew
> "The recommended number of disks per group is between 3 and 9. If you have > more disks, use multiple groups." > > Odd that the Sun Unified Storage 7000 products do not allow you to control > this, it appears to put all the hdd''s into one group. At least on the 7110 > we are evaluating there is no control to allow multiple groups/different > raid types.Our experience has shown that that initial guess of 3-9 per parity device was surprisingly narrow. We see similar performance out to much wider stripes which, of course, offer the user more usable capacity. We don''t allow you to manually set the RAID stripe widths on the 7000 series boxes because frankly the stripe width is an implementation detail. If you want the best performance, choose mirroring; capacity, double-parity RAID; for something in the middle, we offer 3+1 single-parity RAID. Other than that you''re micro-optimizing for gains that would hardly be measurable given the architecture of the Hybrid Storage Pool. Recall that unlike other products in the same space, we get our IOPS from flash rather than from a bazillion spindles spinning at 15,000 RPM. Adam -- Adam Leventhal, Fishworks http://blogs.sun.com/ahl
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Adam Leventhal <ahl at eng.sun.com> wrote:> > "The recommended number of disks per group is between 3 and 9. If you > have > > more disks, use multiple groups." > > > > Odd that the Sun Unified Storage 7000 products do not allow you to > control > > this, it appears to put all the hdd''s into one group. At least on the > 7110 > > we are evaluating there is no control to allow multiple groups/different > > raid types. > > Our experience has shown that that initial guess of 3-9 per parity device > was > surprisingly narrow. We see similar performance out to much wider stripes > which, of course, offer the user more usable capacity. > > We don''t allow you to manually set the RAID stripe widths on the 7000 > series > boxes because frankly the stripe width is an implementation detail. If you > want the best performance, choose mirroring; capacity, double-parity RAID; > for something in the middle, we offer 3+1 single-parity RAID. Other than > that you''re micro-optimizing for gains that would hardly be measurable > given > the architecture of the Hybrid Storage Pool. Recall that unlike other > products in the same space, we get our IOPS from flash rather than from > a bazillion spindles spinning at 15,000 RPM. > > Adam >BWAHAHAHAHA. That''s a good one. "You don''t need to setup your raid, that''s micro-managing, we''ll do that." Remember that one time when I talked about limiting snapshots to protect a user from themselves, and you joined into the fray of people calling me a troll? Can you feel the irony oozing out between your lips, or are you completely oblivious to it? --Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090119/4f5e41da/attachment.html>
> BWAHAHAHAHA. That''s a good one. "You don''t need to setup your raid, that''s > micro-managing, we''ll do that." > > Remember that one time when I talked about limiting snapshots to protect a > user from themselves, and you joined into the fray of people calling me a > troll?I don''t remember this, but I don''t doubt it.> Can you feel the irony oozing out between your lips, or are you > completely oblivious to it?The irony would be that on one hand I object to artificial limitations to business-critical features while on the other hand I think that users don''t need to tweak settings that add complexity and little to no value? They seem very different to me, so I suppose the answer to your question is: no I cannot feel the irony oozing out between my lips, and yes I''m oblivious to the same. Adam -- Adam Leventhal, Fishworks http://blogs.sun.com/ahl
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009, Tim wrote:> Remember that one time when I talked about limiting snapshots to protect a > user from themselves, and you joined into the fray of people calling me a > troll? Can you feel the irony oozing out between your lips, or are you > completely oblivious to it?Tim, I admire that you are able to keep your trolls on topic, quite unlike JZ. This is a clear indication that you are not yet qualified for the rubber room. If you don''t like the simplified nature of the Sun Unified Storage 7000 products, you always have the option of building your own system based on your preferred hardware, and OpenSolaris (or Linux), just as you did before. The mere existence of these products should not annoy you. It seems likely that Sun discovered that raw Solaris and system configuration is too difficult for many "Windows" shops to grasp so they introduced a simplified appliance product line which is engineered entirely by Sun, and with a simplified administration interface which does not require a lot of training to understand. Since the product is entirely engineered by Sun, they can ensure that the provided disk drives and configuration are carefully matched (based on testing and analysis) in order to offer the best price/performance ratio. Bob =====================================Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/
I think this is probably true, and I suspect that Sun is also targeting media warehousing shops like some of the big social networking/video sites, where storage is coming online too fast to make manual tuning a sensible thing to do. Look at many enterprise storage graphs showing bytes on the x and time on the y axis, and you see a very scary picture for an admin - unless you can slap storage into a rack with minimal setup time. Plus, one can yell at the 7000-series when the stress gets to be too much: www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDacjrSCeq4>From another point of view, making ZFS as friendly as possible to''regular'' users - those who *do* buy drives from Fry''s - will certainly help drive adoption. Some of these people become the buyers in IT departments later. Lots of Linux tools, while horrendous to administer (LVM), have worked nicely with junky hardware for a long time. So now, we have Linux even in places where it may not make the most sense. My last enterprise job had many terabytes of data sitting on LVM. I''m glad I wasn''t the admin for that nightmare. cheers, Blake On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Bob Friesenhahn <bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us> wrote:> > It seems likely that Sun discovered that raw Solaris and system > configuration is too difficult for many "Windows" shops to grasp so > they introduced a simplified appliance product line which is > engineered entirely by Sun, and with a simplified administration > interface which does not require a lot of training to understand. > > Since the product is entirely engineered by Sun, they can ensure that > the provided disk drives and configuration are carefully matched > (based on testing and analysis) in order to offer the best > price/performance ratio. > > Bob > =====================================> Bob Friesenhahn > bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ > GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >
Probably Richard Elling''s blog: http://blogs.sun.com/relling/entry/zfs_raid_recommendations_space_performance -- This message posted from opensolaris.org
Is there a GUI for 2008.11 for ZFS like in S10U6?
Marius van Vuuren wrote:> Is there a GUI for 2008.11 for ZFS like in S10U6?It doesn''t appear to be in the dev repository, but you should be able to install the packages from S10u6. If you try this, please let us know if it works. Look for packages contributing to "webconsole": SUNWasu Sun Java System Application Server (usr) SUNWemcon Spanish Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) SUNWemctg Spanish Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) SUNWezfsg Spanish localization for Sun Web Console ZFS administration SUNWfmcon French Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) SUNWfmctg French Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) SUNWfzfsg French localization for Sun Web Console ZFS administration SUNWmcon Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) SUNWmconr Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Root) SUNWmcos Implementation of Sun Java(TM) Web Console (3.1) services SUNWmcosx Implementation of Sun Java(TM) Web Console (3.1) services SUNWmctag Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) SUNWzfsgr ZFS Administration for Sun Java(TM) Web Console (Root) SUNWzfsgu ZFS Administration for Sun Java(TM) Web Console (Usr) -- richard
Thanks I will give it a shot. Installing OS2008.11 on a 4150 and have 2 JBODS connected to it ... would like to give our client a nice interface even if its just for show. Will let you know if it works. Richard Elling wrote:> Marius van Vuuren wrote: >> Is there a GUI for 2008.11 for ZFS like in S10U6? > > It doesn''t appear to be in the dev repository, but you > should be able to install the packages from S10u6. If > you try this, please let us know if it works. > > Look for packages contributing to "webconsole": > SUNWasu Sun Java System Application Server (usr) > SUNWemcon Spanish Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) > SUNWemctg Spanish Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) > SUNWezfsg Spanish localization for Sun Web Console ZFS administration > SUNWfmcon French Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) > SUNWfmctg French Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) > SUNWfzfsg French localization for Sun Web Console ZFS administration > SUNWmcon Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) > SUNWmconr Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Root) > SUNWmcos Implementation of Sun Java(TM) Web Console (3.1) services > SUNWmcosx Implementation of Sun Java(TM) Web Console (3.1) services > SUNWmctag Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) > SUNWzfsgr ZFS Administration for Sun Java(TM) Web Console (Root) > SUNWzfsgu ZFS Administration for Sun Java(TM) Web Console (Usr) > > -- richard >
I do not seem to have those packages in my repository. Is there something I need to add before I will see them? Marius van Vuuren wrote:> Thanks I will give it a shot. > > Installing OS2008.11 on a 4150 and have 2 JBODS connected to it ... > would like to give our client a nice interface even if its just for show. > > Will let you know if it works. > > Richard Elling wrote: > >> Marius van Vuuren wrote: >> >>> Is there a GUI for 2008.11 for ZFS like in S10U6? >>> >> It doesn''t appear to be in the dev repository, but you >> should be able to install the packages from S10u6. If >> you try this, please let us know if it works. >> >> Look for packages contributing to "webconsole": >> SUNWasu Sun Java System Application Server (usr) >> SUNWemcon Spanish Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) >> SUNWemctg Spanish Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) >> SUNWezfsg Spanish localization for Sun Web Console ZFS administration >> SUNWfmcon French Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) >> SUNWfmctg French Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) >> SUNWfzfsg French localization for Sun Web Console ZFS administration >> SUNWmcon Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) >> SUNWmconr Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Root) >> SUNWmcos Implementation of Sun Java(TM) Web Console (3.1) services >> SUNWmcosx Implementation of Sun Java(TM) Web Console (3.1) services >> SUNWmctag Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) >> SUNWzfsgr ZFS Administration for Sun Java(TM) Web Console (Root) >> SUNWzfsgu ZFS Administration for Sun Java(TM) Web Console (Usr) >> >> -- richard >> >> > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090121/fd9bcb63/attachment.html>
Marius van Vuuren wrote:> I do not seem to have those packages in my repository. > > Is there something I need to add before I will see them?They are not in the repository, look for them on an SXCE or Solaris 10 distribution. -- richard> Marius van Vuuren wrote: >> Thanks I will give it a shot. >> >> Installing OS2008.11 on a 4150 and have 2 JBODS connected to it ... >> would like to give our client a nice interface even if its just for show. >> >> Will let you know if it works. >> >> Richard Elling wrote: >> >>> Marius van Vuuren wrote: >>> >>>> Is there a GUI for 2008.11 for ZFS like in S10U6? >>>> >>> It doesn''t appear to be in the dev repository, but you >>> should be able to install the packages from S10u6. If >>> you try this, please let us know if it works. >>> >>> Look for packages contributing to "webconsole": >>> SUNWasu Sun Java System Application Server (usr) >>> SUNWemcon Spanish Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) >>> SUNWemctg Spanish Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) >>> SUNWezfsg Spanish localization for Sun Web Console ZFS administration >>> SUNWfmcon French Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) >>> SUNWfmctg French Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) >>> SUNWfzfsg French localization for Sun Web Console ZFS administration >>> SUNWmcon Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) >>> SUNWmconr Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Root) >>> SUNWmcos Implementation of Sun Java(TM) Web Console (3.1) services >>> SUNWmcosx Implementation of Sun Java(TM) Web Console (3.1) services >>> SUNWmctag Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) >>> SUNWzfsgr ZFS Administration for Sun Java(TM) Web Console (Root) >>> SUNWzfsgu ZFS Administration for Sun Java(TM) Web Console (Usr) >>> >>> -- richard >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> zfs-discuss mailing list >> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Hi Richard, Currently there is a bug in Sol10u6, 6764133 causing zfs admin to crash. *Bug ID:* 6764133*Synopsis:* ZFS admin gui causing jvm SIGSEGV on s10u6 Not sure if there is a fix already. Regards, Andre W. Richard Elling wrote:> Marius van Vuuren wrote: > >> Is there a GUI for 2008.11 for ZFS like in S10U6? >> > > It doesn''t appear to be in the dev repository, but you > should be able to install the packages from S10u6. If > you try this, please let us know if it works. > > Look for packages contributing to "webconsole": > SUNWasu Sun Java System Application Server (usr) > SUNWemcon Spanish Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) > SUNWemctg Spanish Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) > SUNWezfsg Spanish localization for Sun Web Console ZFS administration > SUNWfmcon French Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) > SUNWfmctg French Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) > SUNWfzfsg French localization for Sun Web Console ZFS administration > SUNWmcon Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Core) > SUNWmconr Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Root) > SUNWmcos Implementation of Sun Java(TM) Web Console (3.1) services > SUNWmcosx Implementation of Sun Java(TM) Web Console (3.1) services > SUNWmctag Sun Java(TM) Web Console 3.1 (Tags & Components) > SUNWzfsgr ZFS Administration for Sun Java(TM) Web Console (Root) > SUNWzfsgu ZFS Administration for Sun Java(TM) Web Console (Usr) > > -- richard > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090122/15dd1fc9/attachment.html>