zfs discuss - Jan 2009 - Can the new consumer NAS devices run OpenSolaris?

In the last few weeks, I''ve seen a number of new NAS devices released
from companies like HP, QNAP, VIA, Lacie, Buffalo, Iomega,
Cisco/Linksys, etc. Most of these are powered by Intel Celeron, Intel
Atom, AMD Sempron, Marvell Orion, or Via C7 chips. I''ve also noticed
that most allow a maximum of 1 or 2 GB of RAM.

Is it likely that any of these will run OpenSolaris?

Has anyone else tried?

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/embedded/nsd7800/
http://www.hp.com/united-states/digitalentertainment/mediasmart/serverdemo/index-noflash.html
http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=108

I prefer one of these instead of the huge PC I have at home.

i''m not sure how many via chips support 64-bit, which seems to be
highly recommended.

atoms seem to be more suitable.

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Joe S <js.lists at gmail.com>
wrote:
> In the last few weeks, I''ve seen a number of new NAS devices
released
> from companies like HP, QNAP, VIA, Lacie, Buffalo, Iomega,
> Cisco/Linksys, etc. Most of these are powered by Intel Celeron, Intel
> Atom, AMD Sempron, Marvell Orion, or Via C7 chips. I''ve also
noticed
> that most allow a maximum of 1 or 2 GB of RAM.
>
> Is it likely that any of these will run OpenSolaris?
>
> Has anyone else tried?
>
> http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/embedded/nsd7800/
>
http://www.hp.com/united-states/digitalentertainment/mediasmart/serverdemo/index-noflash.html
> http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=108
>
> I prefer one of these instead of the huge PC I have at home.
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>

[having good long lunch...]

did you do ZFS on your huge PC?
try that first, and then please ask again - "will run OpenSolaris"?

You don''t run things on NAS boxes, you attach things to them.

best,
z at lunch


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe S" <js.lists at gmail.com>
To: <zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 4:14 PM
Subject: [zfs-discuss] Can the new consumer NAS devices run OpenSolaris?

> In the last few weeks, I''ve seen a number of new NAS devices
released
> from companies like HP, QNAP, VIA, Lacie, Buffalo, Iomega,
> Cisco/Linksys, etc. Most of these are powered by Intel Celeron, Intel
> Atom, AMD Sempron, Marvell Orion, or Via C7 chips. I''ve also
noticed
> that most allow a maximum of 1 or 2 GB of RAM.
>
> Is it likely that any of these will run OpenSolaris?
>
> Has anyone else tried?
>
> http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/embedded/nsd7800/
>
http://www.hp.com/united-states/digitalentertainment/mediasmart/serverdemo/index-noflash.html
> http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=108
>
> I prefer one of these instead of the huge PC I have at home.
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:21 PM, JZ <jz at excelsioritsolutions.com>
wrote:
> try that first, and then please ask again - "will run
OpenSolaris"?
>
> You don''t run things on NAS boxes, you attach things to them.
>
These NAS devices need an OS. They come preinstalled with Windows Home
Server. I would like to install OpenSolaris on one these consumer NAS
devices and create ZFS filesystems on the NAS.

ahhhh, I see.
did you ever think about using game boxes for your home digital media 
storage?
can be very fun!

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/hardware/memoryupdate/default.htm

best,
z

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe S" <js.lists at gmail.com>
To: "JZ" <jz at excelsioritsolutions.com>
Cc: <zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Can the new consumer NAS devices run OpenSolaris?

> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:21 PM, JZ <jz at excelsioritsolutions.com>
wrote:
>> try that first, and then please ask again - "will run
OpenSolaris"?
>>
>> You don''t run things on NAS boxes, you attach things to them.
>>
>
> These NAS devices need an OS. They come preinstalled with Windows Home
> Server. I would like to install OpenSolaris on one these consumer NAS
> devices and create ZFS filesystems on the NAS.

>>>>> "js" == Joe S <js.lists at gmail.com>
writes:
>>>>> "m" == mike  <mike503 at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> "j" == JZ  <jz at excelsioritsolutions.com>
writes:
    js> Marvell Orion,

I think Orion is MIPS.

I heard the new Orion will have crypto acceleration though.  maybe
keep an eye on it, and think of running openwrt there instead of
solaris.  If it can make an low-power encrypting iSCSI target with Gb
ethernet, that might not be useless to Solaris ZFS.

     m> i''m not sure how many via chips support 64-bit,

the via chips don''t.  The Atom laptop chips don''t but the
desktop ones
do.

     j> game boxes for your home digital media storage?

xbox 360 is also not i386.  Original xbox is i386, but has only 64MB
RAM and Linux support is bitrotted (2.6.15 kernel) and has no SATA.
this path is completely useless.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 304 bytes
Desc: not available
URL:
<http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090112/a5c6c324/attachment.bin>

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Joe S <js.lists at gmail.com>
wrote:
> In the last few weeks, I''ve seen a number of new NAS devices
released
> from companies like HP, QNAP, VIA, Lacie, Buffalo, Iomega,
> Cisco/Linksys, etc. Most of these are powered by Intel Celeron, Intel
> Atom, AMD Sempron, Marvell Orion, or Via C7 chips. I''ve also
noticed
> that most allow a maximum of 1 or 2 GB of RAM.
>
> Is it likely that any of these will run OpenSolaris?
In theory, the Atom platform will run it. The 945 chipset is supported
and the Atom 230 and 330 (which are on Intel''s motherboard bundle)
support x86-64 extensions. Some boards come with a CF card adapter for
booting, too.

The platform doesn''t support ECC memory and doesn''t support
more than
2GB of memory. The 945 only supports 2 SATA ports and all the boards
I''ve seen have only a single PCI slot, which limit the number of
drives you can use. Due to the relatively poor CPU performance, it
probably would suck for any volume with compression enabled as well.

I''m tempted to buy and Atom board (they''re about $85, plus $20
for
RAM) with a Supermicro 8-port PCI card (~ $95) to play with. $200 for
(very) base NAS hardware is not bad, though a case with 8 or more
drive bays may be $300+. This puts the cost below something like the
ReadyNAS or HP home server. While you gain more functionality, it
forces you to handle the build and administration overhead.

-B

-- 
Brandon High : bhigh at freaks.com

Hi B,
You are not out eating seafood tonight?

For real? the cost thing... I will take your words for it.
And I will tell my chinatown folks maybe stop doing the ZFS home NAS, but 
try the new Windows Home thing...

And those folke, they eat more fried rice, not seafood, and some are the ? 
(fo) believers that don''t eat meat or seafood at all... don''t
know about
those folks...

Going out for a nice walk.
Cheers,
z


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon High" <bhigh at freaks.com>
To: "Joe S" <js.lists at gmail.com>
Cc: <zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Can the new consumer NAS devices run OpenSolaris?

> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Joe S <js.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
>> In the last few weeks, I''ve seen a number of new NAS devices
released
>> from companies like HP, QNAP, VIA, Lacie, Buffalo, Iomega,
>> Cisco/Linksys, etc. Most of these are powered by Intel Celeron, Intel
>> Atom, AMD Sempron, Marvell Orion, or Via C7 chips. I''ve also
noticed
>> that most allow a maximum of 1 or 2 GB of RAM.
>>
>> Is it likely that any of these will run OpenSolaris?
>
> In theory, the Atom platform will run it. The 945 chipset is supported
> and the Atom 230 and 330 (which are on Intel''s motherboard bundle)
> support x86-64 extensions. Some boards come with a CF card adapter for
> booting, too.
>
> The platform doesn''t support ECC memory and doesn''t
support more than
> 2GB of memory. The 945 only supports 2 SATA ports and all the boards
> I''ve seen have only a single PCI slot, which limit the number of
> drives you can use. Due to the relatively poor CPU performance, it
> probably would suck for any volume with compression enabled as well.
>
> I''m tempted to buy and Atom board (they''re about $85,
plus $20 for
> RAM) with a Supermicro 8-port PCI card (~ $95) to play with. $200 for
> (very) base NAS hardware is not bad, though a case with 8 or more
> drive bays may be $300+. This puts the cost below something like the
> ReadyNAS or HP home server. While you gain more functionality, it
> forces you to handle the build and administration overhead.
>
> -B
>
> -- 
> Brandon High : bhigh at freaks.com
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss

ok, was I too harsh on the list?
sorry folks, as I said, I have the biggest ego.

no one can hurt that by trying to fight me, but yes, it can be hurt if I 
have to hurt the friends I love in protecting my ego or my other
friends''
ego.

but no one can get hurt if we don''t claim what we have or what we know
is
the best of all.

a contribution to help the problem today can be better than 100% 
strategically correct in the long run.

we use what we have today, but if that usage will impact the life or death 
of a promising technology branch, as a living thing, maybe we don''t
want to
use the best of today.

everyone has their own need and want, and there is no better/worse, 
right/wrong in the choice of technology.

but some technologies can work together in a constructive fashion, and some 
in a destructive fashion.

please, be constructive.
and you will hear much less from me.

best,
z

Meh -

I doubt you hurt anyone. Most people have kill files for that sort of 
stuff. heh. ;)

On the ''which if these should work'' sort of question, if you
do happen
to try any of those systems, and they work, remember to submit the 
details to the HCL. :)

I''m keen to give it a whack on a small box myself, but have not had the
time or the funds. The Atom stuff should work pretty well, and even with 
  2GB of memory, if it''s just acting as a NAS server, it should have 
plenty of poke. (assuming you are only using it for NAS... ;)

Oh - and assuming you don''t enable stuff like gzip-9 compression, which
might, on the slower Atom style chips, get in the way.

Looking forward to any reports.

Nathan.

On 13/01/09 01:47 PM, JZ wrote:
> ok, was I too harsh on the list?
> sorry folks, as I said, I have the biggest ego.
> 
> no one can hurt that by trying to fight me, but yes, it can be hurt if I 
> have to hurt the friends I love in protecting my ego or my other
friends''
> ego.
> 
> but no one can get hurt if we don''t claim what we have or what we
know is
> the best of all.
> 
> a contribution to help the problem today can be better than 100% 
> strategically correct in the long run.
> 
> we use what we have today, but if that usage will impact the life or death 
> of a promising technology branch, as a living thing, maybe we
don''t want to
> use the best of today.
> 
> everyone has their own need and want, and there is no better/worse, 
> right/wrong in the choice of technology.
> 
> but some technologies can work together in a constructive fashion, and some
> in a destructive fashion.
> 
> please, be constructive.
> and you will hear much less from me.
> 
> best,
> z 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
-- 


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Nathan Kroenert		nathan.kroenert at sun.com		//
// Senior Systems Engineer	Phone:	+61 3 9869 6255         //
// Global Systems Engineering	Fax:	+61 3 9869 6288         //
// Level 7, 476 St. Kilda Road 					//
// Melbourne 3004   Victoria	Australia			//
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

attached a report
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 12 Baby, It''s Cold Outside.wma
Type: audio/x-ms-wma
Size: 3734913 bytes
Desc: not available
URL:
<http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090112/aab2dfeb/attachment.bin>

Re-surfacing an old thread. I was wondering myself if there are any 
home-use commercial NAS devices with zfs. I did find that there is 
Thecus 7700. But, it appears to come with Linux, and use ZFS in FUSE, 
but I (perhaps unjustly) don''t feel comfortable with :)

Perhaps we will start to see more home NAS devices with zfs options, or 
at least to be able to run EON ?




Joe S wrote:
> In the last few weeks, I''ve seen a number of new NAS devices
released
> from companies like HP, QNAP, VIA, Lacie, Buffalo, Iomega,
> Cisco/Linksys, etc. Most of these are powered by Intel Celeron, Intel
> Atom, AMD Sempron, Marvell Orion, or Via C7 chips. I''ve also
noticed
> that most allow a maximum of 1 or 2 GB of RAM.
> 
> Is it likely that any of these will run OpenSolaris?
> 
> Has anyone else tried?
> 
> http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/embedded/nsd7800/
>
http://www.hp.com/united-states/digitalentertainment/mediasmart/serverdemo/index-noflash.html
> http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=108
> 
> I prefer one of these instead of the huge PC I have at home.
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
> 
-- 
Jorgen Lundman       | <lundman at lundman.net>
Unix Administrator   | +81 (0)3 -5456-2687 ext 1017 (work)
Shibuya-ku, Tokyo    | +81 (0)90-5578-8500          (cell)
Japan                | +81 (0)3 -3375-1767          (home)

I''ve gotten Nexenta installed onto a USB stick on a SS4200-E. To get it
install required a PCI-E flex adapter. If you can reconfig EON for boot on a
USB stick and serial console it might be possible. I''ve got two SS4200
and I
might try EON on the second.

Nicholas

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Jorgen Lundman <lundman at gmo.jp> wrote:
>
> Re-surfacing an old thread. I was wondering myself if there are any
> home-use commercial NAS devices with zfs. I did find that there is Thecus
> 7700. But, it appears to come with Linux, and use ZFS in FUSE, but I
> (perhaps unjustly) don''t feel comfortable with :)
>
> Perhaps we will start to see more home NAS devices with zfs options, or at
> least to be able to run EON ?
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090421/07a7d69b/attachment.html>

> It''s not what you want, but I use fullsized PC located at balcony
and
 > don''t worries about heat, vibration and noise. AFAIK, this is the
 > cheapest, simplest and quickest way to build custom server. I ever
 > know people who made 19" rack with set of servers on balcony also.
=)
> And offcause I don''t understand what the strong neccesary to hold 
 > this HDD-server near you. Are you going to swap HDD every day?
 > Or do you like to see it while working? %-) 1000BaseTX
 > standart allow up to 105 meters distance, remember it ;-)

I have played with the idea of using the balcony. But in summer, it hits 
40C+ for a couple of months, so if they were in a rack or similar 
storage it would get even hotter. I would also have to have AC for it. 
Inside, we already have AC on :)

I wanted more hands-off really. Just a little box plugged in, replace 
the HDDs when the red light comes on, the rest is automatic. But of 
course, at the same time, it is MY data, so I''d rather it was using ZFS
and so on.

The Thecus, and QNAP, raids both use Intel chipsets. I am curious if I 
picked up an empty box; 2nd hand for next-to-nothing, if I couldn''t 
re-flash it with osol, or eon, or freenas.



-- 
Jorgen Lundman       | <lundman at lundman.net>
Unix Administrator   | +81 (0)3 -5456-2687 ext 1017 (work)
Shibuya-ku, Tokyo    | +81 (0)90-5578-8500          (cell)
Japan                | +81 (0)3 -3375-1767          (home)

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090531/0eb6878f/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature
Size: 3303 bytes
Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
URL:
<http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090531/0eb6878f/attachment.bin>

>Re-surfacing an old thread. I was wondering myself if there are any 
>home-use commercial NAS devices with zfs. I did find that there is 
>Thecus 7700. But, it appears to come with Linux, and use ZFS in FUSE, 
>but I (perhaps unjustly) don''t feel comfortable with :)
no, you justly feel unconfortable with that. i`m really curious how an
enterprise targeted nas device can implement zfs-fuse, which is known to have
issues and is considered to be beta (if not alpha) quality software. or they
have developed it internally to stable version !? (as cddl does not force them
to release the sources afterwards - is that correct?)
-- 
This message posted from opensolaris.org