Hi, According to the Sun Handbook, there is a new array : SAS interface 12 disks SAS or SATA ZFS could be used nicely with this box. There is an another version called J4400 with 24 disks. Doc is here : http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/j4200 Does someone know price and availability for these products ? Best Regards, Ben This message posted from opensolaris.org
This array has not been formally announced yet and information on general availability is not available as far as I know. I saw the docs last week and the product was supposed to be launched a couple of weeks ago. Unofficially this is Sun''s continued push to develop cheaper storage options that can be combined with Solaris and the Open Storage initiative to provide customers with options they don''t have today. I''d expect the price-point to be quite a bit cheaper than the LC 24XX series of arrays. On Jul 2, 2008, at 7:49 AM, Ben B. wrote:> Hi, > > According to the Sun Handbook, there is a new array : > SAS interface > 12 disks SAS or SATA > > ZFS could be used nicely with this box. > > There is an another version called > J4400 with 24 disks. > > Doc is here : > http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/j4200 > > Does someone know price and availability for these products ? > > Best Regards, > Ben > > > This message posted from opensolaris.org > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Availibilty may depend on where you are located but J4200 and J4400 are available for most regions. Those equipment is engineered to go well with Sun open storage components like ZFS. Besides price advantage, J4200 and J4400 offers unmatched bandwith to hosts or to stacking units. You can get the price from your sun account manager Best regards Mertol Mertol Ozyoney Storage Practice - Sales Manager Sun Microsystems, TR Istanbul TR Phone +902123352200 Mobile +905339310752 Fax +902123352222 Email mertol.ozyoney at sun.com -----Original Message----- From: zfs-discuss-bounces at opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-bounces at opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Ben B. Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 2:49 PM To: zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org Subject: [zfs-discuss] J4200/J4400 Array Hi, According to the Sun Handbook, there is a new array : SAS interface 12 disks SAS or SATA ZFS could be used nicely with this box. There is an another version called J4400 with 24 disks. Doc is here : http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/j4200 Does someone know price and availability for these products ? Best Regards, Ben This message posted from opensolaris.org _______________________________________________ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
On Wed, Jul 02, 2008 at 04:49:26AM -0700, Ben B. wrote:> According to the Sun Handbook, there is a new array : > SAS interface > 12 disks SAS or SATA > > ZFS could be used nicely with this box.Doesn''t seem to have any NVRAM storage on board, so seems like JBOD.> There is an another version called > J4400 with 24 disks. > > Doc is here : > http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/j4200-- albert chin (china at thewrittenword.com)
So when are they going to release msrp? On 7/2/08, Mertol Ozyoney <Mertol.Ozyoney at sun.com> wrote:> Availibilty may depend on where you are located but J4200 and J4400 are > available for most regions. > Those equipment is engineered to go well with Sun open storage components > like ZFS. > Besides price advantage, J4200 and J4400 offers unmatched bandwith to hosts > or to stacking units. > > You can get the price from your sun account manager > > Best regards > Mertol > > > > Mertol Ozyoney > Storage Practice - Sales Manager > > Sun Microsystems, TR > Istanbul TR > Phone +902123352200 > Mobile +905339310752 > Fax +902123352222 > Email mertol.ozyoney at sun.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: zfs-discuss-bounces at opensolaris.org > [mailto:zfs-discuss-bounces at opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Ben B. > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 2:49 PM > To: zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > Subject: [zfs-discuss] J4200/J4400 Array > > Hi, > > According to the Sun Handbook, there is a new array : > SAS interface > 12 disks SAS or SATA > > ZFS could be used nicely with this box. > > There is an another version called > J4400 with 24 disks. > > Doc is here : > http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/j4200 > > Does someone know price and availability for these products ? > > Best Regards, > Ben > > > This message posted from opensolaris.org > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >
Hi; You are right that J series do not have nvram onboard. However most Jbods like HPS''s MSA series have some nvram. The idea behind not using nvram on the Jbod''s is -) There is no use to add limited ram to a JBOD as disks already have a lot of cache. -) It''s easy to design a redundant Jbod without nvram. If you have nvram and need redundancy you need to design more complex HW and more complex firmware -) Bateries are the first thing to fail -) Servers already have too much ram Best regards Mertol Ozyoney Storage Practice - Sales Manager Sun Microsystems, TR Istanbul TR Phone +902123352200 Mobile +905339310752 Fax +902123352222 Email mertol.ozyoney at sun.com -----Original Message----- From: zfs-discuss-bounces at opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-bounces at opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Albert Chin Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 9:04 PM To: zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] J4200/J4400 Array On Wed, Jul 02, 2008 at 04:49:26AM -0700, Ben B. wrote:> According to the Sun Handbook, there is a new array : > SAS interface > 12 disks SAS or SATA > > ZFS could be used nicely with this box.Doesn''t seem to have any NVRAM storage on board, so seems like JBOD.> There is an another version called > J4400 with 24 disks. > > Doc is here : > http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/j4200-- albert chin (china at thewrittenword.com) _______________________________________________ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
You should be able to buy them today. GA should be next week Mertol Mertol Ozyoney Storage Practice - Sales Manager Sun Microsystems, TR Istanbul TR Phone +902123352200 Mobile +905339310752 Fax +902123352222 Email mertol.ozyoney at sun.com -----Original Message----- From: Tim [mailto:tim at tcsac.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 9:45 PM To: Mertol.Ozyoney at Sun.COM; Ben B.; zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] J4200/J4400 Array So when are they going to release msrp? On 7/2/08, Mertol Ozyoney <Mertol.Ozyoney at sun.com> wrote:> Availibilty may depend on where you are located but J4200 and J4400 are > available for most regions. > Those equipment is engineered to go well with Sun open storage components > like ZFS. > Besides price advantage, J4200 and J4400 offers unmatched bandwith tohosts> or to stacking units. > > You can get the price from your sun account manager > > Best regards > Mertol > > > > Mertol Ozyoney > Storage Practice - Sales Manager > > Sun Microsystems, TR > Istanbul TR > Phone +902123352200 > Mobile +905339310752 > Fax +902123352222 > Email mertol.ozyoney at sun.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: zfs-discuss-bounces at opensolaris.org > [mailto:zfs-discuss-bounces at opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Ben B. > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 2:49 PM > To: zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > Subject: [zfs-discuss] J4200/J4400 Array > > Hi, > > According to the Sun Handbook, there is a new array : > SAS interface > 12 disks SAS or SATA > > ZFS could be used nicely with this box. > > There is an another version called > J4400 with 24 disks. > > Doc is here : > http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/j4200 > > Does someone know price and availability for these products ? > > Best Regards, > Ben > > > This message posted from opensolaris.org > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >
Mertol Ozyoney wrote:> Hi; > > You are right that J series do not have nvram onboard. However most Jbods > like HPS''s MSA series have some nvram. > The idea behind not using nvram on the Jbod''s is > > -) There is no use to add limited ram to a JBOD as disks already have a lot > of cache. > -) It''s easy to design a redundant Jbod without nvram. If you have nvram and > need redundancy you need to design more complex HW and more complex firmwarewhich translates tohigher costs for hardware and higher costs for the software (firmware and upwards) required to manage it.> -) Bateries are the first thing to failThat''s why high-end arrays like those from HDS tend to have enough battery storage to keep disks spinning for nearly 72 hours. Redundancy costs!> -) Servers already have too much ramNot when the users are looking at flash-heavy websites ;-) James C. McPherson -- Senior Kernel Software Engineer, Solaris Sun Microsystems http://blogs.sun.com/jmcp http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog
On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 01:43:36PM +0300, Mertol Ozyoney wrote:> You are right that J series do not have nvram onboard. However most Jbods > like HPS''s MSA series have some nvram. > The idea behind not using nvram on the Jbod''s is > > -) There is no use to add limited ram to a JBOD as disks already have a lot > of cache. > -) It''s easy to design a redundant Jbod without nvram. If you have nvram and > need redundancy you need to design more complex HW and more complex firmware > -) Bateries are the first thing to fail > -) Servers already have too much ramWell, if the server attached to the J series is doing ZFS/NFS, performance will increase with zfs:zfs_nocacheflush=1. But, without battery-backed NVRAM, this really isn''t "safe". So, for this usage case, unless the server has battery-backed NVRAM, I don''t see how the J series is good for ZFS/NFS usage. -- albert chin (china at thewrittenword.com)
Albert Chin wrote:> On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 01:43:36PM +0300, Mertol Ozyoney wrote: > >> You are right that J series do not have nvram onboard. However most Jbods >> like HPS''s MSA series have some nvram. >> The idea behind not using nvram on the Jbod''s is >> >> -) There is no use to add limited ram to a JBOD as disks already have a lot >> of cache. >> -) It''s easy to design a redundant Jbod without nvram. If you have nvram and >> need redundancy you need to design more complex HW and more complex firmware >> -) Bateries are the first thing to fail >> -) Servers already have too much ram >> > > Well, if the server attached to the J series is doing ZFS/NFS, > performance will increase with zfs:zfs_nocacheflush=1. But, without > battery-backed NVRAM, this really isn''t "safe". So, for this usage case, > unless the server has battery-backed NVRAM, I don''t see how the J series > is good for ZFS/NFS usage. > >The zfs_nocacheflush problem should be mostly gone as the fix was implemented in b74. We really expect that this recommendation will disappear, except in its viral form. http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6462690 You really don''t want to set this when using common, magnetic disks in a JBOD (J-series means JBOD) because there is no non-volatile cache. For good ZFS+NFS performance under attribute-creating-intensive loads using JBODs, we recommend using a slog. -- richard
Infact using NVRam in a JBOD is less safe as most of the Jbods that use NvRam have only one NvRam not being mirrored. Therefore if NvRam goes bad you quarantee inconsistancy. However ZFS is finetuned in every layer for all or nothing commit kind of working. Therefore ZFs have the internal mechanisms to be consistant at the time of a device failure. If you put a device between storage and ZFS that ZFs can not control , that device should be redundant and should be able to quarantee consistancy and Jbod NvRam modules are very problematic. I have a customer who had 80 TB on Lustre system and who system locked because of a battery problem and it took them a week to figure out what went wrong. Mertol Mertol Ozyoney Storage Practice - Sales Manager Sun Microsystems, TR Istanbul TR Phone +902123352200 Mobile +905339310752 Fax +902123352222 Email mertol.ozyoney at sun.com -----Original Message----- From: zfs-discuss-bounces at opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-bounces at opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Albert Chin Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 8:17 PM To: zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] J4200/J4400 Array On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 01:43:36PM +0300, Mertol Ozyoney wrote:> You are right that J series do not have nvram onboard. However most Jbods > like HPS''s MSA series have some nvram. > The idea behind not using nvram on the Jbod''s is > > -) There is no use to add limited ram to a JBOD as disks already have alot> of cache. > -) It''s easy to design a redundant Jbod without nvram. If you have nvramand> need redundancy you need to design more complex HW and more complexfirmware> -) Bateries are the first thing to fail > -) Servers already have too much ramWell, if the server attached to the J series is doing ZFS/NFS, performance will increase with zfs:zfs_nocacheflush=1. But, without battery-backed NVRAM, this really isn''t "safe". So, for this usage case, unless the server has battery-backed NVRAM, I don''t see how the J series is good for ZFS/NFS usage. -- albert chin (china at thewrittenword.com) _______________________________________________ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Hello Richard, Thursday, July 3, 2008, 8:06:56 PM, you wrote: RE> Albert Chin wrote:>> On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 01:43:36PM +0300, Mertol Ozyoney wrote: >> >>> You are right that J series do not have nvram onboard. However most Jbods >>> like HPS''s MSA series have some nvram. >>> The idea behind not using nvram on the Jbod''s is >>> >>> -) There is no use to add limited ram to a JBOD as disks already have a lot >>> of cache. >>> -) It''s easy to design a redundant Jbod without nvram. If you have nvram and >>> need redundancy you need to design more complex HW and more complex firmware >>> -) Bateries are the first thing to fail >>> -) Servers already have too much ram >>> >> >> Well, if the server attached to the J series is doing ZFS/NFS, >> performance will increase with zfs:zfs_nocacheflush=1. But, without >> battery-backed NVRAM, this really isn''t "safe". So, for this usage case, >> unless the server has battery-backed NVRAM, I don''t see how the J series >> is good for ZFS/NFS usage. >> >>RE> The zfs_nocacheflush problem should be mostly gone as the fix was RE> implemented in b74. We really expect that this recommendation will RE> disappear, except in its viral form. RE> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6462690 Has anyone performed some study with well know disk arrays if they actually properly honor the bit? Unless the fix incorporates recognizing "bad" arrays and automatically is not sending cache flushes to their LUNs....? -- Best regards, Robert Milkowski mailto:milek at task.gda.pl http://milek.blogspot.com