Hi
I''m using ZFS on few X4500 and I need to backup them.
The data on source pool keeps changing so the online replication
would be the best solution.
As I know AVS doesn''t support ZFS - there is a problem with
mounting backup pool.
Other backup systems (disk-to-disk or block-to-block) have the
same problem with mounting ZFS pool.
I hope I''m wrong ?
In case of any problem I want the backup pool to be operational
within 1 hour.
Do you know any solution ?
--Lukas
----------------------------------------------------
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?ukasz K wrote:> Hi > I''m using ZFS on few X4500 and I need to backup them. > The data on source pool keeps changing so the online replication > would be the best solution. > > As I know AVS doesn''t support ZFS - there is a problem with > mounting backup pool.This is not true, if replication is configured correctly. Where are you getting information about the aforementioned problem? Have you looked at the following? http://blogs.sun.com/avs http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/avs/> > Other backup systems (disk-to-disk or block-to-block) have the > same problem with mounting ZFS pool. > I hope I''m wrong ? > > In case of any problem I want the backup pool to be operational > within 1 hour. > > Do you know any solution ? > > --Lukas > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Zag?osuj i zgarnij 10.000 z?otych! > Wybierz z nami Internetowego SportoWWWca Roku. > Oddaj sw?j g?os na najlepszego. - Kliknij: > http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fcorto.www.wp.pl%2Fas%2Fsportowiec2007.html&sid=166 > > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discussJim Dunham Storage Platform Software Group Sun Microsystems, Inc. wk: 781.442.4042 http://blogs.sun.com/avs http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/avs/ http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/iscsitgt/ http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/storage/
Dnia 10-01-2008 o godz. 16:11 Jim Dunham napisa?(a):> ?ukasz K wrote: > > > Hi > > I''m using ZFS on few X4500 and I need to backup them. > > The data on source pool keeps changing so the online replication > > would be the best solution. > > > > As I know AVS doesn''t support ZFS - there is a problem with > > mounting backup pool. > > This is not true, if replication is configured correctly. > Where are you getting information about the aforementioned problem?I red on zfs-discuss.> > Have you looked at the following? > > http://blogs.sun.com/avs > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/avs/I have seen that. I want to configure x4500 A to replicate data on x4500 B - asynchronous replication - synchronous will block I/O on A. Let''s say I have a crash on A, I want to use backup pool B The B pool can be mounted with force option. How much data will I lose and is there guarantee that pool B is consistent.> > > > > Other backup systems (disk-to-disk or block-to-block) have the > > same problem with mounting ZFS pool. > > I hope I''m wrong ? > > > > In case of any problem I want the backup pool to be operational > > within 1 hour. > > > > Do you know any solution ? > >---------------------------------------------------- Zag?osuj i zgarnij 10.000 z?otych! Wybierz z nami Internetowego SportoWWWca Roku. Oddaj sw?j g?os na najlepszego. - Kliknij: http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fcorto.www.wp.pl%2Fas%2Fsportowiec2007.html&sid=166
On Jan 10, 2008, at 4:50 AM, ?ukasz K wrote:> Hi > I''m using ZFS on few X4500 and I need to backup them. > The data on source pool keeps changing so the online replication > would be the best solution. > > As I know AVS doesn''t support ZFS - there is a problem with > mounting backup pool. > Other backup systems (disk-to-disk or block-to-block) have the > same problem with mounting ZFS pool. > I hope I''m wrong ? > > In case of any problem I want the backup pool to be operational > within 1 hour. > > Do you know any solution ?If it doesn''t need to be synchronous, then you can use ''zfs send -R''. eric
Dnia 10-01-2008 o godz. 17:45 eric kustarz napisa?(a):> On Jan 10, 2008, at 4:50 AM, ?ukasz K wrote: > > > Hi > > I''m using ZFS on few X4500 and I need to backup them. > > The data on source pool keeps changing so the online replication > > would be the best solution. > > > > As I know AVS doesn''t support ZFS - there is a problem with > > mounting backup pool. > > Other backup systems (disk-to-disk or block-to-block) have the > > same problem with mounting ZFS pool. > > I hope I''m wrong ? > > > > In case of any problem I want the backup pool to be operational > > within 1 hour. > > > > Do you know any solution ? > > If it doesn''t need to be synchronous, then you can use ''zfs send -R''.I need automatic system. Now I''m using zfs send but it takes too much human resources to control it.> > eric---------------------------------------------------- Czy Dygant ma sztuczny biust? Zobacz! http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fcorto.www.wp.pl%2Fas%2Fdygat.html&sid=175
On Jan 10, 2008, at 9:18 AM, ?ukasz K wrote:> Dnia 10-01-2008 o godz. 17:45 eric kustarz napisa?(a): >> On Jan 10, 2008, at 4:50 AM, ?ukasz K wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> I''m using ZFS on few X4500 and I need to backup them. >>> The data on source pool keeps changing so the online replication >>> would be the best solution. >>> >>> As I know AVS doesn''t support ZFS - there is a problem with >>> mounting backup pool. >>> Other backup systems (disk-to-disk or block-to-block) have the >>> same problem with mounting ZFS pool. >>> I hope I''m wrong ? >>> >>> In case of any problem I want the backup pool to be operational >>> within 1 hour. >>> >>> Do you know any solution ? >> >> If it doesn''t need to be synchronous, then you can use ''zfs send -R''. > > I need automatic system. Now I''m using zfs send but it > takes too much human resources to control it.cron job?> >> >> eric > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Czy Dygant ma sztuczny biust? > Zobacz! http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fcorto.www.wp.pl%2Fas% > 2Fdygat.html&sid=175 > > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
eric kustarz wrote:> On Jan 10, 2008, at 9:18 AM, ?ukasz K wrote: > >> I need automatic system. Now I''m using zfs send but it >> takes too much human resources to control it. > > cron job?Oh look, I did a zfs send in cron, and my resilver never finished, and I lost a second drive, and now my data has vanished in a puff of smoke! This resilver restart bug is an abomination, and the fact that Sun hasn''t considered it a sev 1 priority and produced a fix for Solaris customers is mind boggling. The OP should use AVS or rsync. zfs send / recv is just not useful right now, much to my regret. Neither are snapshots. The zfs universe is just a really sad place right now... (And don''t get me started on the x4500 marvell bug that _still_ isn''t fixed for paying customers... we''re waiting for a T patch) -- Carson
On Jan 10, 2008, at 9:32 AM, Carson Gaspar wrote:> eric kustarz wrote: >> On Jan 10, 2008, at 9:18 AM, ?ukasz K wrote: >> >>> I need automatic system. Now I''m using zfs send but it >>> takes too much human resources to control it. >> >> cron job? > > Oh look, I did a zfs send in cron, and my resilver never finished, > and I > lost a second drive, and now my data has vanished in a puff of smoke!So use raid-z2 :) Yes we know its a problem. Yes we are working on it. No, it isn''t trivial to fix. Still, resilvering should be a rare event. Snapshots can still be used daily/hourly/whatever time you prefer (when a resilver isn''t needed). Its less than ideal, but build into your scripts the knowledge that a resilver is active, don''t take snapshots, and send an alert.> > This resilver restart bug is an abomination, and the fact that Sun > hasn''t considered it a sev 1 priority and produced a fix for Solaris > customers is mind boggling.We are working on a proper fix.> > The OP should use AVS or rsync. zfs send / recv is just not useful > right > now, much to my regret. Neither are snapshots. The zfs universe is > just > a really sad place right now...We are all entitled to our own opinions (whether they are right or wrong). eric
Eric,> > On Jan 10, 2008, at 4:50 AM, ?ukasz K wrote: > >> Hi >> I''m using ZFS on few X4500 and I need to backup them. >> The data on source pool keeps changing so the online replication >> would be the best solution. >> >> As I know AVS doesn''t support ZFS - there is a problem with >> mounting backup pool. >> Other backup systems (disk-to-disk or block-to-block) have the >> same problem with mounting ZFS pool. >> I hope I''m wrong ? >> >> In case of any problem I want the backup pool to be operational >> within 1 hour. >> >> Do you know any solution ? > > If it doesn''t need to be synchronous, then you can use ''zfs send -R''.The prior statement could lead one to believe that ''zfs send -R'' is asynchronous replication, which it is not. The functionality ZFS provides via send/recv is known as time-fixed, or snapshot replication. Here, a non-changing data source, the snapshot, is synchronized from the source to destination node based on either a full or differential set of changes. Unlike synchronous or asynchronous replication, where data is continuously replicated in a write-order consistent manner, time-fixed replication is discontinuous, often driven by taking periodic snapshots of the changing data, performing the differential synchronization of the non-changing source data to the remote host, then waiting until the next interval. The most common problem with time-fixed replication is trying to determine, or calculate the periodic interval to use, since its optimal value is based on many variables, most of which are changing over time and usage patterns.> > > eric > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discussJim Dunham Storage Platform Software Group Sun Microsystems, Inc. wk: 781.442.4042 http://blogs.sun.com/avs http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/avs/ http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/iscsitgt/ http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/storage/
On Jan 10, 2008, at 07:50, ?ukasz K wrote:> As I know AVS doesn''t support ZFS - there is a problem with > mounting backup pool.Two demo movies with AVS and ZFS together were posted a little while ago: http://blogs.sun.com/AVS/entry/avs_zfs_the_sndr_replication
On Jan 10, 2008, at 5:13 PM, Jim Dunham wrote:> Eric, > >> >> On Jan 10, 2008, at 4:50 AM, ?ukasz K wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> I''m using ZFS on few X4500 and I need to backup them. >>> The data on source pool keeps changing so the online replication >>> would be the best solution. >>> >>> As I know AVS doesn''t support ZFS - there is a problem with >>> mounting backup pool. >>> Other backup systems (disk-to-disk or block-to-block) have the >>> same problem with mounting ZFS pool. >>> I hope I''m wrong ? >>> >>> In case of any problem I want the backup pool to be operational >>> within 1 hour. >>> >>> Do you know any solution ? >> >> If it doesn''t need to be synchronous, then you can use ''zfs send -R''. > > The prior statement could lead one to believe that ''zfs send -R'' is > asynchronous replication, which it is not.Right, should have said "you can leverage ''zfs send -R''". Replication isn''t built into core ZFS (at least not yet), but the building blocks to do it are available.> > The functionality ZFS provides via send/recv is known as time-fixed, > or snapshot replication. Here, a non-changing data source, the > snapshot, is synchronized from the source to destination node based on > either a full or differential set of changes. > > Unlike synchronous or asynchronous replication, where data is > continuously replicated in a write-order consistent manner, time-fixed > replication is discontinuous, often driven by taking periodic > snapshots of the changing data, performing the differential > synchronization of the non-changing source data to the remote host, > then waiting until the next interval. > > The most common problem with time-fixed replication is trying to > determine, or calculate the periodic interval to use, since its > optimal value is based on many variables, most of which are changing > over time and usage patterns.How is this different than any asynchronous replication solution? With AVS, can''t you tune the async queue? One of the beauties behind using ZFS for async replication is when a network partition happens. When the replication scheme doesn''t have intimate knowledge of what its trying to replicate, then it has to copy *every block* over. Which means you have to store more & more blocks while the network is down. Where do you store those blocks? How are they stored (any redundancy)? What happens when you still have plenty of space left in your ZFS pool but your secondary storage for async replication is full? With ZFS and snapshots, you don''t have to store the blocks on secondary storage. And when the network comes back up, you don''t have to send/recv over every snapshot you''ve taken but couldn''t replicate as the network was down - just the difference between the latest snapshot and the last successfully received/replicated. Feel free to correct me if i''ve misunderstood how AVS works, but this is a scenario a customer ran into while using VVR. eric