zfs discuss - Jun 2007 - OT: extremely poor experience with Sun Download Manager

Intending to experiment with ZFS, I have been struggling with what  
should be a simple download routine.

Sun Download Manager leaves a great deal to be desired.

In the Online Help for Sun Download Manager there''s a section on  
troubleshooting, but if it causes *anyone* this much trouble
<http://fuzzy.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/sundownloadmanagercrap/> then  
it should, surely, be fixed.

Sun Download Manager -- a FORCED step in an introduction to  
downloadable software from Sun -- should be PROBLEM FREE in all  
circumstances. It gives an extraordinarily poor first impression.

If it can''t assuredly be fixed, then we should not be forced to use it.

(True, I might have ordered rather than downloaded a DVD, but Sun  
Download Manager has given such a poor impression that right now I''m  
disinclined to pay.)

Graham Perrin wrote:
> Intending to experiment with ZFS, I have been struggling with what
> should be a simple download routine.
>
> Sun Download Manager leaves a great deal to be desired.
>
> In the Online Help for Sun Download Manager there''s a section on
> troubleshooting, but if it causes *anyone* this much trouble
> <http://fuzzy.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/sundownloadmanagercrap/> then
> it should, surely, be fixed.
>
> Sun Download Manager -- a FORCED step in an introduction to
> downloadable software from Sun -- should be PROBLEM FREE in all
> circumstances. It gives an extraordinarily poor first impression.
>
You do not have to use the SDM, I never do.

Ian

On 14/6/07 11:16, "Graham Perrin" <grahamperrin at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Intending to experiment with ZFS, I have been struggling with what
> should be a simple download routine.
> 
> Sun Download Manager leaves a great deal to be desired.
> 
> In the Online Help for Sun Download Manager there''s a section on
> troubleshooting, but if it causes *anyone* this much trouble
> <http://fuzzy.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/sundownloadmanagercrap/> then
> it should, surely, be fixed.
> 
> Sun Download Manager -- a FORCED step in an introduction to
Read Sun''s page more carefully. It isn''t a forced step, it is
a
*recommended* step. (OK, a *highly recommended* step.)

There''s nothing stopping you downloading each file separately using
your web
browser or curl or something.

Cheers,

Chris

> Intending to experiment with ZFS, I have been
> struggling with what  
> should be a simple download routine.
> 
> Sun Download Manager leaves a great deal to be
> desired.
> 
> In the Online Help for Sun Download Manager there''s a
> section on  
> troubleshooting, but if it causes *anyone* this much
> trouble
> <http://fuzzy.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/sundownloadmana
> gercrap/> then  
> it should, surely, be fixed.
> 
> Sun Download Manager -- a FORCED step in an
> introduction to  
> downloadable software from Sun -- should be PROBLEM
> FREE in all  
> circumstances. It gives an extraordinarily poor first
> impression.
> 
> If it can''t assuredly be fixed, then we should not be
> forced to use it.
> 
> (True, I might have ordered rather than downloaded a
> DVD, but Sun  
> Download Manager has given such a poor impression
> that right now I''m  
> disinclined to pay.)
For trying out zfs, you could always request the free "Starter Kit"
DVD
at http://www.opensolaris.org/kits/ which  contains the
SXCE, Nexenta, Belenix and Schillix distros (all newer than Solaris 10).

Beyond that, while I''m sure you''re right about that providing
a poor
first impression, I guess I''m too old to have much sympathy for
something
taking minutes rather than seconds of attention being a barrier to entry.
Yes, the download experience should be vastly improved, but if you let
that stop you, I wonder if you''re all that interested in the first
place.
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Graham Perrin wrote:
> Intending to experiment with ZFS, I have been struggling with what 
> should be a simple download routine.
> 
> Sun Download Manager leaves a great deal to be desired.
> 
> In the Online Help for Sun Download Manager there''s a section on 
> troubleshooting, but if it causes *anyone* this much trouble
> <http://fuzzy.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/sundownloadmanagercrap/> then
it
> should, surely, be fixed.
> 
> Sun Download Manager -- a FORCED step in an introduction to downloadable 
> software from Sun -- should be PROBLEM FREE in all circumstances. It 
> gives an extraordinarily poor first impression.
Though it is written in Java, and JavaIO has no concept of file
size limits, the downloads are limited to 2 GBytes.  This makes SDM
totally useless for me.  I filed the bug about 4 years ago, and it
is still not being fixed (yes, they know about it)  I recommend you
use something else, there are many good alternatives.
  -- richard

more background below...

Richard Elling wrote:
> Graham Perrin wrote:
>> Intending to experiment with ZFS, I have been struggling with what 
>> should be a simple download routine.
>>
>> Sun Download Manager leaves a great deal to be desired.
>>
>> In the Online Help for Sun Download Manager there''s a section
on
>> troubleshooting, but if it causes *anyone* this much trouble
>> <http://fuzzy.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/sundownloadmanagercrap/>
then
>> it should, surely, be fixed.
>>
>> Sun Download Manager -- a FORCED step in an introduction to 
>> downloadable software from Sun -- should be PROBLEM FREE in all 
>> circumstances. It gives an extraordinarily poor first impression.
> 
> Though it is written in Java, and JavaIO has no concept of file
> size limits, the downloads are limited to 2 GBytes.  This makes SDM
> totally useless for me.  I filed the bug about 4 years ago, and it
> is still not being fixed (yes, they know about it)  I recommend you
> use something else, there are many good alternatives.
The important feature is the ability to restart a download in the middle.
Downloads cost real money, so if you have to restart from the beginning,
then it costs even more money.  Again, there are several good downloaders
out there which offer this feature.
  -- richard

People,

indeed, even though interesting and a problem, this is OT. I suggest that 
everyone who has trouble with SDM address it to the people who actually 
work on it - especially if you''re a (potential) customer.

cheers
Michael

Richard Elling wrote:
> more background below...
> 
> Richard Elling wrote:
>> Graham Perrin wrote:
>>> Intending to experiment with ZFS, I have been struggling with what 
>>> should be a simple download routine.
>>>
>>> Sun Download Manager leaves a great deal to be desired.
>>>
>>> In the Online Help for Sun Download Manager there''s a
section on
>>> troubleshooting, but if it causes *anyone* this much trouble
>>>
<http://fuzzy.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/sundownloadmanagercrap/> then
>>> it should, surely, be fixed.
>>>
>>> Sun Download Manager -- a FORCED step in an introduction to 
>>> downloadable software from Sun -- should be PROBLEM FREE in all 
>>> circumstances. It gives an extraordinarily poor first impression.
>>
>> Though it is written in Java, and JavaIO has no concept of file
>> size limits, the downloads are limited to 2 GBytes.  This makes SDM
>> totally useless for me.  I filed the bug about 4 years ago, and it
>> is still not being fixed (yes, they know about it)  I recommend you
>> use something else, there are many good alternatives.
> 
> The important feature is the ability to restart a download in the middle.
> Downloads cost real money, so if you have to restart from the beginning,
> then it costs even more money.  Again, there are several good downloaders
> out there which offer this feature.
>  -- richard
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss

-- 
Michael Schuster
Recursion, n.: see ''Recursion''

On Jun 14, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Michael Schuster wrote:
> People,
>
> indeed, even though interesting and a problem, this is OT. I  
> suggest that everyone who has trouble with SDM address it to the  
> people who actually work on it - especially if you''re a
(potential)
> customer.
Michael, for the sake of others who aren''t familiar with Sun''s
practices, how does one do that? Go to Sunsolve?

thanks,
-john

John Martinez wrote:
> 
> On Jun 14, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Michael Schuster wrote:
> 
>> People,
>>
>> indeed, even though interesting and a problem, this is OT. I suggest 
>> that everyone who has trouble with SDM address it to the people who 
>> actually work on it - especially if you''re a (potential)
customer.
> 
> Michael, for the sake of others who aren''t familiar with
Sun''s
> practices, how does one do that? Go to Sunsolve?
I was afraid someone would ask :-)

I''m sorry I have no idea. In general, there should be a feedback
mechanism
attached to SDM. I''ve never used it myself, so I just had a look at 
http://www.sun.com/download/sdm/index.xml, and would suggest you use the 
''contact'' link (bottom left). I realise it''s probably
very un-SDM-specific ...

HTH
-- 
Michael Schuster
Recursion, n.: see ''Recursion''

replying to myself ...

Michael Schuster wrote:
> look at http://www.sun.com/download/sdm/index.xml, and would suggest you 
> use the ''contact'' link (bottom left). I realise
it''s probably very
> un-SDM-specific ...
> 
> HTH
http://www.sun.com/download/sdm/sdm_help.xml has a feedback form at the 
very bottom (under "Customer Support").

HTH
-- 
Michael Schuster
Recursion, n.: see ''Recursion''

On 14 Jun 2007, at 12:22, Richard L. Hamilton wrote:
> I wonder if you''re all that interested in the first place.
I''m definitely interested but at
<http://www.sun.com/download/faq.xml#q1> Sun shout (with an  
exclamation mark)
>> Use the Sun Download Manager (SDM) for all your SDLC downloads!
Frankly, I was fairly busy with the thirty-odd steps for what should  
have been a simple download. So busy with those steps, that I didn''t  
find time to contradict what was being shouted from the FAQ.

The other download methods are not obvious.

On 14 Jun 2007, at 16:58, Michael Schuster wrote:
> People,
>
> indeed, even though interesting and a problem, this is OT. I  
> suggest that everyone who has trouble with SDM address it to the  
> people who actually work on it - especially if you''re a
(potential)
> customer.
>
> cheers
> Michael
Thanks to all for the responses. Going off-list now.

It''s not (yet) clear to me whether I can discover the required URLs  
without first downloading then opening the .jnlp files in a text  
editor. But I''m not inviting responses from the list, instead
I''ll
seek advice from those who have already contributed.
> I was afraid someone would ask :-)
:-) LOL

Regards
Graham

On June 14, 2007 11:16:00 AM +0100 Graham Perrin <grahamperrin at
gmail.com>
wrote:
> If it can''t assuredly be fixed, then we should not be forced to
use it.
You''re not forced to use it.  I use wget just fine.
-frank

OK, I *finally* noticed the direct download links that appear between  
the two Sun Download Manager buttons. I can''t believe I overlooked  
them so often.

(Over-focused on the problems with SDM!)

I now have my install DVD, I''ll probably take my first look at  
Solaris this weekend, and ZFS some time soon afterwards...

> Intending to experiment with ZFS, I have been
> struggling with what  
> should be a simple download routine.
> 
> Sun Download Manager leaves a great deal to be
> desired.
> 
> In the Online Help for Sun Download Manager there''s a
> section on  
> troubleshooting, but if it causes *anyone* this much
> trouble
> <http://fuzzy.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/sundownloadmana
> gercrap/> then  
> it should, surely, be fixed.
> 
> Sun Download Manager -- a FORCED step in an
> introduction to  
> downloadable software from Sun -- should be PROBLEM
> FREE in all  
> circumstances. It gives an extraordinarily poor first
> impression.
> 
> If it can''t assuredly be fixed, then we should not be
> forced to use it.
> 
> (True, I might have ordered rather than downloaded a
> DVD, but Sun  
> Download Manager has given such a poor impression
> that right now I''m  
> disinclined to pay.)
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discu
> ss
> 
Sun Download Manager, the split file downloads, and their download tracking
system (you can''t download a file more than once per session, WTF?) are
all relics of the past.

Sun would be served well by joining the rest of the internet in the present day
where people download files from simple http mirrors using existing software on
their computer.

I''d love for these comments to make it to the right people, but who
knows how to make that happen.
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Well, I just grabbed the latest SXCE, and just for the heck of it, fooled
around until I got the Java Web Start to work.

Basically, one''s browser needs to know the following (how to do that
depends
on the browser):

MIME Type:      application/x-java-jnlp-file
File Extension: jnlp
Open With:      /usr/bin/javaws

I got that working with both firefox and opera without inordinate difficulty.
Once that was done, after clicking "accept" and selecting the three
files, I
clicked on the "download with sdm" box, it started sdm, and passed all
three
files to it.  I think I also had to click start on sdm.  That''s
it...not so bad after all.

sdm has a major advantage over typical downloads done directly by browsers for
such large files: if the server supports it (needs to be able to handle requests
fo
portions of files rather than just an entire file), it can restart failed
transfers more
or less automatically; and they can even be paused and resumed more or less
arbitrarily.
I''ve used that in the past to download the entire Solaris 10 CD set
over a _dialup_.  Took
a week (well, 8 hours a day connected), but it worked.
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

On 17 Jun 2007, at 05:49, Richard L. Hamilton wrote:
> I got the Java Web Start to work
Richard, thanks ... I already have someone from the Sun Download  
Manager team offering help.