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Diego Righi

2007-May-19 20:16 UTC

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

Hi all, I just built a new zfs server for home and, being a long time and avid
reader of this forum, I''m going to post my config specs and my
benchmarks hoping this could be of some help for others :)

http://www.sickness.it/zfspr0nserver.jpg
http://www.sickness.it/zfspr0nserver.txt
http://www.sickness.it/zfspr0nserver.png
http://www.sickness.it/zfspr0nserver.pdf

Correct me if I''m wrong: from the benchmark results, I understand that
this setup is slow at writing, but fast at reading (and this is perfect for my
usage, copying large files once and then accessing only to read them). It also
seems that at 128kb it gives the best performances, iirc due to the zfs stripe
size (again, correct me if I''m wrong :).

I''d happily try any other test, but if you suggest bonnie++ please tell
me what''s the right version to use, too much of them I really
can''t understand which to try!

tnx :)
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Ben Rockwood

2007-May-20 00:02 UTC

head link

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

Diego Righi wrote:> Hi all, I just built a new zfs server for home and, being a long time and
avid reader of this forum, I''m going to post my config specs and my
benchmarks hoping this could be of some help for others :)
>
> http://www.sickness.it/zfspr0nserver.jpg
> http://www.sickness.it/zfspr0nserver.txt
> http://www.sickness.it/zfspr0nserver.png
> http://www.sickness.it/zfspr0nserver.pdf
>
> Correct me if I''m wrong: from the benchmark results, I understand
that this setup is slow at writing, but fast at reading (and this is perfect for
my usage, copying large files once and then accessing only to read them). It
also seems that at 128kb it gives the best performances, iirc due to the zfs
stripe size (again, correct me if I''m wrong :).
>
> I''d happily try any other test, but if you suggest bonnie++ please
tell me what''s the right version to use, too much of them I really
can''t understand which to try!
>
> tnx :)
>  
Classy.  +1 for style. ;)

benr.

John-Paul Drawneek

2007-May-20 14:27 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

What sata controllers are you using?
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Diego Righi

2007-May-20 19:06 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

The onboard one is the controller that''s in the nVidia 430 south
bridge:
pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x0e function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0266
 nVidia Corporation MCP51 Serial ATA Controller

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x0f function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0267
 nVidia Corporation MCP51 Serial ATA Controller

The other one is a no-brand 4 port sil3114 pci sata 1.0 controller that I bought
at a local computer fair last september:
pci bus 0x0001 cardnum 0x07 function 0x00: vendor 0x1095 device 0x3114
 Silicon Image, Inc. SiI 3114 [SATALink/SATARaid] Serial ATA Controller

Notice that I had to flash it to make it work like a regular "plain"
ide controller, otherwise it always kept the disks for himself
"presenting" to me only the logical raid created drive...
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

XIU

2007-May-20 22:03 UTC

head link

[zfs-discuss] Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

About sata controllers, anyone tried
http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?segment=Non-RAID%20HBAs&product_id=139#?
It sells here for like 90euro so would be a cheap way for me to add
some
extra harddrives for a personal zfs server.

On 5/20/07, Diego Righi <sickness at tiscali.it>
wrote:>
> The onboard one is the controller that''s in the nVidia 430 south
bridge:
> pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x0e function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0266
> nVidia Corporation MCP51 Serial ATA Controller
>
> pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x0f function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0267
> nVidia Corporation MCP51 Serial ATA Controller
>
> The other one is a no-brand 4 port sil3114 pci sata 1.0 controller that I
> bought at a local computer fair last september:
> pci bus 0x0001 cardnum 0x07 function 0x00: vendor 0x1095 device 0x3114
> Silicon Image, Inc. SiI 3114 [SATALink/SATARaid] Serial ATA Controller
>
> Notice that I had to flash it to make it work like a regular
"plain" ide
> controller, otherwise it always kept the disks for himself
"presenting" to
> me only the logical raid created drive...
>
>
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
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Marko Milisavljevic

2007-May-21 05:26 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

What kind of performance are you getting with ZFS from Sil3114 card?
Can you try bonnie or dd if=file of=/dev/null... on it?

On 5/20/07, Diego Righi <sickness at tiscali.it>
wrote:>
> The other one is a no-brand 4 port sil3114 pci sata 1.0 controller that I
bought at a local computer fair last september:
> pci bus 0x0001 cardnum 0x07 function 0x00: vendor 0x1095 device 0x3114
>  Silicon Image, Inc. SiI 3114 [SATALink/SATARaid] Serial ATA Controller

Diego Righi

2007-May-21 07:05 UTC

head link

[zfs-discuss] Re: Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

It''s not easy to retry now because the 4 disks attached to the sil3114
controller are half of the raidz2 mirror... but in the previous home server that
I had, this controller had 3 * 320gb disks attached to it where I had a raidz1
pool.
With dclarke''s test it easily got 50MB/s in the first (mad :) writing
test.
So I think it''s pretty fast for the price and for the fact
that''s sata 1.0 and pci33 (those little no-brand cards are the cheapest
you can find online or at local computer fairs)
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Christopher Gibbs

2007-May-21 14:15 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

XIU, I''m currently using that card with my modest three-disk raid-z
home server and it works great! Solaris 10 had native support for it
so no need to mess with drivers.


On 5/20/07, XIU <xiu at shoeke.com> wrote:> About sata controllers, anyone tried
>
http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?segment=Non-RAID%20HBAs&product_id=139#
> ? It sells here for like 90euro so would be a cheap way for me to add some
> extra harddrives for a personal zfs server.
>
>
> On 5/20/07, Diego Righi < sickness at tiscali.it> wrote:
> > The onboard one is the controller that''s in the nVidia 430
south bridge:
> > pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x0e function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0266
> > nVidia Corporation MCP51 Serial ATA Controller
> >
> > pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x0f function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0267
> > nVidia Corporation MCP51 Serial ATA Controller
> >
> > The other one is a no-brand 4 port sil3114 pci sata 1.0 controller
that I
> bought at a local computer fair last september:
> > pci bus 0x0001 cardnum 0x07 function 0x00: vendor 0x1095 device 0x3114
> > Silicon Image, Inc. SiI 3114 [SATALink/SATARaid] Serial ATA Controller
> >
> > Notice that I had to flash it to make it work like a regular
"plain" ide
> controller, otherwise it always kept the disks for himself
"presenting" to
> me only the logical raid created drive...
> >
> >
> > This message posted from opensolaris.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > zfs-discuss mailing list
> > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>
>

-- 
Christopher Gibbs
Email / LDAP Administrator
Web Integration & Programming
Abilene Christian University

Carson Gaspar

2007-May-21 15:45 UTC

head link

[zfs-discuss] Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

Christopher Gibbs wrote:> XIU, I''m currently using that card with my modest three-disk
raid-z
> home server and it works great! Solaris 10 had native support for it
> so no need to mess with drivers.
By "native support", I assume you mean IDE/ATA driver support
("ata" in
modinfo), not SATA driver support. But I''d love to be wrong ;-)
> On 5/20/07, XIU <xiu at shoeke.com> wrote:
>> About sata controllers, anyone tried
>>
http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?segment=Non-RAID%20HBAs&product_id=139#
>>
>> ? It sells here for like 90euro so would be a cheap way for me to add 
>> some
>> extra harddrives for a personal zfs server.
-- 
Carson

Christopher Gibbs

2007-May-21 16:50 UTC

head link

[zfs-discuss] Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

Sorry, I''m fairly new to Solaris... I''m not sure if
it''s using the ata
driver or sata driver. Here are my current disks (0,1, and 2 are the
sata disks):

AVAILABLE DISK SELECTIONS:
       0. c0d0 <Maxtor 6-L59LQ0W-0001-233.76GB>
          /pci at 0,0/pci-ide at 9/ide at 0/cmdk at 0,0
       1. c0d1 <Maxtor 6-L59MD11-0001-233.76GB>
          /pci at 0,0/pci-ide at 9/ide at 0/cmdk at 1,0
       2. c1d0 <Maxtor 6-L59M4DQ-0001-233.76GB>
          /pci at 0,0/pci-ide at 9/ide at 1/cmdk at 0,0
       3. c2d0 <DEFAULT cyl 2488 alt 2 hd 255 sec 63>
          /pci at 0,0/pci-ide at 11,1/ide at 0/cmdk at 0,0
Specify disk (enter its number):

Since they are labeled as "pci-ide" is it safe to assume they are
using the ide/ata driver? If so, is there a performance gain when
using a sata driver?


On 5/21/07, Carson Gaspar <carson at taltos.org>
wrote:> Christopher Gibbs wrote:
> > XIU, I''m currently using that card with my modest three-disk
raid-z
> > home server and it works great! Solaris 10 had native support for it
> > so no need to mess with drivers.
>
> By "native support", I assume you mean IDE/ATA driver support
("ata" in
> modinfo), not SATA driver support. But I''d love to be wrong ;-)
>
> > On 5/20/07, XIU <xiu at shoeke.com> wrote:
> >> About sata controllers, anyone tried
> >>
http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?segment=Non-RAID%20HBAs&product_id=139#
> >>
> >> ? It sells here for like 90euro so would be a cheap way for me to
add
> >> some
> >> extra harddrives for a personal zfs server.
>
> --
> Carson
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>

-- 
Christopher Gibbs
Email / LDAP Administrator
Web Integration & Programming
Abilene Christian University

Nigel Smith

2007-May-21 22:54 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] Re: Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

I wanted to confirm the drivers I was using for the hard drives in my PC,
and here is the method I used. Maybe you can try something similar,
and see what you get.

I used the ''prtconf'' command, with the device path from the
''format'' command.
(Use bash as the shell, and use the tab key to expand the path)
My sata drive is using the ''ahci'' driver, connecting to the
 ICH7 chipset on the motherboard.
And I have a scsi drive on a Adaptec card, plugged into a PCI slot.
Thanks
Nigel Smith

# format
Searching for disks...done
AVAILABLE DISK SELECTIONS:
       0. c0t0d0 <DEFAULT cyl 2229 alt 2 hd 255 sec 63>
          /pci at 0,0/pci8086,244e at 1e/pci9005,62a0 at 2/sd at 0,0
       1. c2t0d0 <DEFAULT cyl 9723 alt 2 hd 255 sec 63>
          /pci at 0,0/pci1028,1a8 at 1f,2/disk at 0,0
Specify disk (enter its number): ^D

# prtconf -acD /devices/pci\@0\,0/pci1028\,1a8\@1f\,2
i86pc (driver name: rootnex)
    pci, instance #0 (driver name: npe)
        pci1028,1a8, instance #0 (driver name: ahci)
            disk, instance #0 (driver name: sd)

# prtconf -acD /devices/pci\@0\,0/pci8086\,244e\@1e/pci9005\,62a0\@2/sd\@0\,0
i86pc (driver name: rootnex)
    pci, instance #0 (driver name: npe)
        pci8086,244e, instance #0 (driver name: pci_pci)
            pci9005,62a0, instance #0 (driver name: cadp160)
                sd, instance #2 (driver name: sd)

# modinfo | egrep -i ''root|npe|ahci|sd |pci_pci|cadp160''
 20 fffffffffbb309c8   4768   1   1  rootnex (i86pc root nexus 1.141)
 30 fffffffffbb970e0   6d20 183   1  npe (Host to PCIe nexus driver 1.7)
 34 fffffffffbba4aa0   77a8  58   1  ahci (ahci driver 1.1)
 36 fffffffffbbb9f70  25fb8  31   1  sd (SCSI Disk Driver 1.548)
146 fffffffff7c73000   1a58  84   1  pci_pci (PCI to PCI bridge nexus driver )
147 fffffffff7d20000  275a0  32   1  cadp160 (Adaptec Ultra160 HBA d1.21)
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Maciej Klepaczewski

2007-Aug-06 18:40 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

cjgibbs , do You know maybe if this Promise SATA300 Tx4 controller supports
750GB hard drives? I can''t find any information about that anywhere...
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Christopher Gibbs

2007-Aug-06 21:36 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

No idea... mine are all 250GB and the only thing I could find on it is
this blurb from their product description:
"Breaks the 137GB barrier! Supports various brands of large capacity
Serial ATA hard disk drives"
http://siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pid=465

On 8/6/07, Maciej Klepaczewski <maciej at klepaczewski.com>
wrote:> cjgibbs , do You know maybe if this Promise SATA300 Tx4 controller supports
750GB hard drives? I can''t find any information about that anywhere...
>
>
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>

-- 
Christopher Gibbs
Email / LDAP Administrator
Web Integration & Programming
Abilene Christian University

Christopher Gibbs

2007-Aug-06 21:40 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

Oops, that was the wrong link, but same info anyways:
"The SATA300 TX4 also includes large LBA support for drives above
137GB, and its onboard BIOS automatically identifies and configures
drive type."
http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?segment=Non-RAID%20HBAs&product_id=139#

On 8/6/07, Christopher Gibbs <chris.gibbs at acu.edu>
wrote:> No idea... mine are all 250GB and the only thing I could find on it is
> this blurb from their product description:
> "Breaks the 137GB barrier! Supports various brands of large capacity
> Serial ATA hard disk drives"
> http://siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pid=465
>
> On 8/6/07, Maciej Klepaczewski <maciej at klepaczewski.com> wrote:
> > cjgibbs , do You know maybe if this Promise SATA300 Tx4 controller
supports 750GB hard drives? I can''t find any information about that
anywhere...
> >
> >
> > This message posted from opensolaris.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > zfs-discuss mailing list
> > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
> >
>
>
> --
> Christopher Gibbs
> Email / LDAP Administrator
> Web Integration & Programming
> Abilene Christian University
>

-- 
Christopher Gibbs
Email / LDAP Administrator
Web Integration & Programming
Abilene Christian University

Will Murnane

2007-Aug-06 22:59 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

On 8/6/07, Christopher Gibbs <chris.gibbs at acu.edu>
wrote:> Oops, that was the wrong link, but same info anyways:
> "The SATA300 TX4 also includes large LBA support for drives above
> 137GB, and its onboard BIOS automatically identifies and configures
> drive type."If it''s bigger than 137GB, it''s probably using 40- or 48-bit
addressing and you''ll be fine up to a few petabytes.    See
http://www.48bitlba.com/ for more information.

Personally, I would avoid the Promise cards.  I trust them as far as I
can (and have) throw(n) them.

Will

Maciej Klepaczewski

2007-Aug-07 08:38 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

Yeah, all 3 controllers I''ve tested broke 137GB barrier. Unfortunately
it seems that 500GB barrier is unbreakable for them ;-)
Thanks for reply though.
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Casper.Dik at Sun.COM

2007-Aug-07 08:56 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

>Yeah, all 3 controllers I''ve tested broke 137GB barrier.
Unfortunately it seems that 500GB barrier is unbreakable for them ;-)


Why would they not be able to take > 500GB disks?

Casper

Maciej Klepaczewski

2007-Aug-07 14:01 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

I''dont know really. They just hang during POST while determining size
of attached hard drives. 400GB and 500GB drives works without problem. Also,
onboard controller detects all 8 750GB disks, so the problemy must be on the
controller side.
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

michael

2007-Aug-30 03:37 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

do either of you know the current story about this card? i can''t get it
to work at all in solaris 10, but i''m very new to the OS.


thanks!
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

michael

2007-Sep-01 23:54 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

to clarify: i mean the promise sata300 tx4.
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Jason

2007-Sep-04 14:53 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

Sickness, which case are you using? I''ve been looking for something
that supports many HDDs. Thanks.
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Diego Righi

2007-Sep-05 08:29 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

The case is a Sharkoon Rebel9 (Economy edition, has no integrated fans), I
bought it from an italian online store, and I think it''s commercialized
in Germany, it has 9 5"1/4 frontal slots
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Jason

2007-Sep-05 13:02 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

Thanks, did it come with the hardware to mount HDD''s in 5.25"
slots?
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Christopher Gibbs

2007-Sep-05 19:46 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

I''m now using the CM Stacker 810 for my file server and I love it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119093

It comes with one 4-in-3 drive cage and has room for 2 more (3 if you
remove the front I/O panel). The drive cages are excellent - mounted
with rubber washers to absorb vibration and comes with a 120mm fan
mounted to the front.

On 9/5/07, Jason <overcast at matrixowner.com>
wrote:> Thanks, did it come with the hardware to mount HDD''s in 5.25"
slots?
>
>
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>

-- 
Christopher Gibbs
Email / LDAP Administrator
Web Integration & Programming
Abilene Christian University

Diego Righi

2007-Sep-06 14:54 UTC

head link

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

Unfortunately it only comes with 4 adapters, bare metal adapters without any
dampering /silencing and so on...
...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded all the 10
disks (8 sata 320gb and a little 2,5" pata root disk) with a flexible wire,
like I posted in this italian forum, the page is in italian, but the pictures
show the concept well enough:
http://www.pcsilenzioso.it/forum/showthread.php?t=2397
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Christopher Gibbs

2007-Sep-06 15:06 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

Wow, what a creative idea. And I''ll bet that allows for much more
airflow than the 4-in-3 drive cages do. Very nice.

On 9/6/07, Diego Righi <sickness at tiscali.it>
wrote:> Unfortunately it only comes with 4 adapters, bare metal adapters without
any dampering /silencing and so on...
> ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded all
the 10 disks (8 sata 320gb and a little 2,5" pata root disk) with a
flexible wire, like I posted in this italian forum, the page is in italian, but
the pictures show the concept well enough:
> http://www.pcsilenzioso.it/forum/showthread.php?t=2397
>
>
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>

-- 
Christopher Gibbs
Email / LDAP Administrator
Web Integration & Programming
Abilene Christian University

Will Murnane

2007-Sep-06 21:10 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

On 9/6/07, Diego Righi <sickness at tiscali.it>
wrote:> ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded all
the 10 disksWarning: unfounded speculation ahead.

I''ve heard that this can cause performance issues and undue wear on
the drive.  The reasoning is that since the arm assembly accelerates
in one direction, and there''s not much force keeping the drive from
rotating, it spins in the opposite direction a little bit.  This isn''t
a huge problem by itself, but since the place the arm was aiming for
is no longer there due to the counter-rotation, it has to seek a
little bit in the other direction, generating more wear and tear on
the bearings, more heat from the drive, and shorter drive lifetimes.

I haven''t seen any data to back this up or otherwise, but it does make
some sense to me.  The distance between tracks on a modern disk is
ludicrously small - on the order of microns - so any small influence
on where the head ends up seems likely to result in getting the wrong
location and having to relocate.

That said, it looks like quite a nice setup.  Good choice on
components, even if the memory isn''t ECC ;-)

Will

Dave Johnson

2007-Sep-06 22:24 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

Agreed !

However, you may be able to lower the sound ever so slightly more by 
staggering the drives so that every other one is upside down, spinning the 
opposite direction and thus minimizing accumulative rotational vibration.

I had to make a makeshift temporary server when our NAS gateway device had a 
problem that required we reinitialize the array (after moving all data off 
of course).  I used a Coolermaster CM Stacker with 16x750GB drives in SATA 
4-drive carriers all going the same direction and the system made a 
horrendous oscillating buzz, as well as the occasional drive timeout warning 
from the RAID controller when the system was under high load (all drives 
part of single RAID6 array).

After some thought, I decided to turn 2 of the 4 drive cages upside down so 
that the config had 4 drives spinning normally, 4 upside down, 4 normally, 
and finally another 4 upside down.  The oscillation was gone completely as 
were the rare drive timeouts under load.

Your laced setup places the drives in so much dampening that it might not 
make much of a difference but still, might as well take care of it now 
rather than later when it''s all buttoned up if it starts buzz.  It
certainly
couldn''t hurt.

-=dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Gibbs" <chris.gibbs at acu.edu>
To: "Diego Righi" <sickness at tiscali.it>
Cc: <zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

> Wow, what a creative idea. And I''ll bet that allows for much more
> airflow than the 4-in-3 drive cages do. Very nice.
>
> On 9/6/07, Diego Righi <sickness at tiscali.it> wrote:
>> Unfortunately it only comes with 4 adapters, bare metal adapters
without
>> any dampering /silencing and so on...
>> ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded
all
>> the 10 disks (8 sata 320gb and a little 2,5" pata root disk) with
a
>> flexible wire, like I posted in this italian forum, the page is in 
>> italian, but the pictures show the concept well enough:
>> http://www.pcsilenzioso.it/forum/showthread.php?t=2397
>>
>>
>> This message posted from opensolaris.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> zfs-discuss mailing list
>> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Christopher Gibbs
> Email / LDAP Administrator
> Web Integration & Programming
> Abilene Christian University
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>

2007-Sep-06 22:48 UTC

head link

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

> Unfortunately it only comes with 4 adapters, bare
> metal adapters without any dampering /silencing and
> so on...
> ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I
> could, so I suspeded all the 10 disks (8 sata 320gb
> and a little 2,5" pata root disk) with a flexible
> wire, like I posted in this italian forum, the page
> is in italian, but the pictures show the concept well
> enough:
> http://www.pcsilenzioso.it/forum/showthread.php?t=2397
Good work, that is a lot of suspension to do :)  You should post it on the
silentpcreview gallery forum to show off the masterpiece :)
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

David Hopwood

2007-Sep-07 02:30 UTC

head link

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

Will Murnane wrote:> On 9/6/07, Diego Righi <sickness at tiscali.it> wrote:
>> ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded
all the 10 disks
> Warning: unfounded speculation ahead.
> 
> I''ve heard that this can cause performance issues and undue wear
on
> the drive.  The reasoning is that since the arm assembly accelerates
> in one direction, and there''s not much force keeping the drive
from
> rotating, it spins in the opposite direction a little bit.  This
isn''t
> a huge problem by itself, but since the place the arm was aiming for
> is no longer there due to the counter-rotation, it has to seek a
> little bit in the other direction, generating more wear and tear on
> the bearings, more heat from the drive, and shorter drive lifetimes.
I was highly skeptical, given that drives are designed to run in both
horizontal and vertical orientations (and to switch between them without
reformatting, e.g. see
<http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/4236D595E2C5309F862572C500813B89/$file/C10K147_IG.pdf>),
and that the forces on the drive arm are quite different depending on
the orientation (even though the arm is counterbalanced).

However, a little searching turned up
<http://www.sidman.com/angaccel.htm>,
which tends to support the reasoning above:

# Accordingly, known compensation or disturbance rejection systems, while
# performing satisfactorily for applications using linear or unbalanced
# rotary actuators, fail to address the problems of spindle imbalance
# forces, external shock or vibration and windup in systems having a
# balanced rotary actuator. This failure is due to the fact that only
# angular acceleration of the HDA in the direction of actuator rotation
# substantially causes positioning errors in systems that utilize a balanced
# rotary actuator.

and suggests using an acceleration sensor specifically to compensate for
"angular acceleration of the HDA in the direction of actuator
rotation".
Suspending the drive obviously does change this acceleration.

Another possible argument is that if the drive moves slightly, so does the
connector to it, which seems like a bad idea.

-- 
David Hopwood <david.hopwood at industrial-designers.co.uk>

Diego Righi

2007-Sep-07 10:22 UTC

head link

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

I''ve seen the page with the pics of that server, and I agree with this
issue.
So I''d like to try to reverse half of the disks too, how would you
advice to do this?
My current setup is as follows, where up is normal disk upside paced, and down
is with upside plate down and electronics side up:
up
up
up
up
up
up
up
up

would it be better to do this:
up
down
up
down
up
down
up
down

or this:
up
up
up
up
down
down
down
down

or maybe this?
up
up
down
down
up
up
down
down

(about the spinning/moving thing: the blue wires are *tight*, and the disk
doesn''t spin like a washing machine anyway... I understand this issue,
but I prefer silence and slightly moving/pronetobreaking disks than noise, with
a raidz2 setup, I just hope they don''t fail on me more than 2 at a time
=)
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Paul Kraus

2007-Sep-07 12:31 UTC

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

On 9/6/07, Dave Johnson <dj4904 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> However, you may be able to lower the sound ever so slightly more by
> staggering the drives so that every other one is upside down, spinning the
> opposite direction and thus minimizing accumulative rotational vibration.
        Be careful here. I know some older disks are not designed to
run upside down. Check the drive manufacturers data sheet on the
drives you are using.

-- 
Paul Kraus

Dave Johnson

2007-Sep-07 22:52 UTC

head link

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

Yes, if you have any MFM/RLL drives in your possession, please disregard my 
recomendation ;)

-=dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Kraus" <pk1048 at gmail.com>
To: <zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 5:31 AM
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

> On 9/6/07, Dave Johnson <dj4904 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> However, you may be able to lower the sound ever so slightly more by
>> staggering the drives so that every other one is upside down, spinning 
>> the
>> opposite direction and thus minimizing accumulative rotational
vibration.
>
>        Be careful here. I know some older disks are not designed to
> run upside down. Check the drive manufacturers data sheet on the
> drives you are using.
>
> -- 
> Paul Kraus
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>

Dave Johnson

2007-Sep-07 22:54 UTC

head link

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

the up/down/up/down/... scenario should give the best results in minimizing 
accumulative rotation vibration.

-=dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <sickness at tiscali.it>
To: "Dave Johnson" <dj4904 at hotmail.com>
Cc: "Christopher Gibbs" <chris.gibbs at acu.edu>;
<zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 2:35 AM
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

>
> I''ve seen the page with the pics of that server, and I agree with
this
> issue
> So I''d like to try to reverse half of the disks too, how would you
advice
> to do this?
> My current setup is as follows, where up is normal disk upside paced, and 
> down is with upside plate down and electronics side up:
> up
> up
> up
> up
> up
> up
> up
> up
>
> would it be better to do this:
> up
> down
> up
> down
> up
> down
> up
> down
>
> or this:
> up
> up
> up
> up
> down
> down
> down
> down
>
> or maybe this?
> up
> up
> down
> down
> up
> up
> down
> down
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 03:24:25PM -0700, Dave Johnson wrote:
>> Agreed !
>>
>> However, you may be able to lower the sound ever so slightly more by
>> staggering the drives so that every other one is upside down, spinning 
>> the
>> opposite direction and thus minimizing accumulative rotational
vibration.
>>
>> I had to make a makeshift temporary server when our NAS gateway device 
>> had
>> a problem that required we reinitialize the array (after moving all
data
>> off of course).  I used a Coolermaster CM Stacker with 16x750GB drives
in
>> SATA 4-drive carriers all going the same direction and the system made
a
>> horrendous oscillating buzz, as well as the occasional drive timeout
>> warning from the RAID controller when the system was under high load
(all
>> drives part of single RAID6 array).
>>
>> After some thought, I decided to turn 2 of the 4 drive cages upside
down
>> so
>> that the config had 4 drives spinning normally, 4 upside down, 4 
>> normally,
>> and finally another 4 upside down.  The oscillation was gone completely
>> as
>> were the rare drive timeouts under load.
>>
>> Your laced setup places the drives in so much dampening that it might
not
>> make much of a difference but still, might as well take care of it now
>> rather than later when it''s all buttoned up if it starts buzz.
It
>> certainly couldn''t hurt.
>>
>> -=dave
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Christopher Gibbs" <chris.gibbs at acu.edu>
>> To: "Diego Righi" <sickness at tiscali.it>
>> Cc: <zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 8:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
>>
>>
>> >Wow, what a creative idea. And I''ll bet that allows for
much more
>> >airflow than the 4-in-3 drive cages do. Very nice.
>> >
>> >On 9/6/07, Diego Righi <sickness at tiscali.it> wrote:
>> >>Unfortunately it only comes with 4 adapters, bare metal
adapters
>> >>without
>> >>any dampering /silencing and so on...
>> >>...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I
suspeded
>> >>all
>> >>the 10 disks (8 sata 320gb and a little 2,5" pata root
disk) with a
>> >>flexible wire, like I posted in this italian forum, the page is
in
>> >>italian, but the pictures show the concept well enough:
>> >>http://www.pcsilenzioso.it/forum/showthread.php?t=2397
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>This message posted from opensolaris.org
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>zfs-discuss mailing list
>> >>zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
>> >>http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >-- 
>> >Christopher Gibbs
>> >Email / LDAP Administrator
>> >Web Integration & Programming
>> >Abilene Christian University
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >zfs-discuss mailing list
>> >zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
>> >http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>> >
>>
>

Diego Righi

2007-Sep-08 12:38 UTC

head link

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

ok, for the sake of science (!!!), I''ve turned upside down 4 disks, and
took mandatory pics:
http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zfspr0nserver11nf5.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zfspr0nserver12nw8.jpg
http://img482.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zfspr0nserver13mj8.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zfspr0nserver14sw7.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zfspr0nserver15tu9.jpg
the rerouting of the power cables was a bit of a pain, but all in all it was
easy and I''m happy it all went well:
[vintage.sick-net]# zpool status
  pool: vintage
 state: ONLINE
 scrub: none requested
config:

        NAME        STATE     READ WRITE CKSUM
        vintage     ONLINE       0     0     0
          raidz2    ONLINE       0     0     0
            c2d0    ONLINE       0     0     0
            c3d0    ONLINE       0     0     0
            c4d0    ONLINE       0     0     0
            c5d0    ONLINE       0     0     0
            c6d0    ONLINE       0     0     0
            c6d1    ONLINE       0     0     0
            c7d0    ONLINE       0     0     0
            c7d1    ONLINE       0     0     0

errors: No known data errors

anyway, I don''t know if the little recurring "armonic" noise
it produced lowered, too much ambient noise now, I''ll post again after
having heard it at night ;P
bye
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

zfs discuss - May 2007 - New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

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[zfs-discuss] Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] Re: Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] Re: Re: New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

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[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

[zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))