Anthony Wright
2009-Dec-22 16:28 UTC
[Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
I''m having real problems trying to negotiate through Microsoft to be able to find a license that I can buy for a Windows XP Pro or Windows 7 Pro DomU, that allows the following things: 1) There is no Windows OEM license for the hardware as Linux is the Dom0 O/S and we only install a Windows DomU on a small proportion of boxes 2) Normally the customer owns the hardware not us We''ve just started shipping a product that requires this setup, and have investigated Volume Licensing - but that requires an OEM license for the box. SPLA licensing but that requires an OEM license & the box to be owned by us. The only option I''ve had offered by Microsoft is buying retail boxed licenses, and while I''ll go down that route if I have to, it''s the most expensive solution, and it''s going to be a real administration headache with loads of retail boxes and keys flying around. Has anybody else had this problem before, and if so do you have any suggestions. I really am tearing my hair out on this one. thanks, Anthony Wright. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Nathan Eisenberg
2009-Dec-22 19:39 UTC
RE: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
There''s not a licensing program I am aware of that does what you want using the desktop product lineup. For what you are doing, it sounds like a server OS (server 2008 web if your application is appropriate for that OS), a SPLA, plus some business arrangements (equipment is sold to your company for $1 at the start of the contract, and the customer has an optional $1 buyback at the close of the contract) are required. Best Regards, Nathan Eisenberg> -----Original Message----- > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-users- > bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wright > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 8:29 AM > To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com > Subject: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual > machines? > > I''m having real problems trying to negotiate through Microsoft to be > able to find a license that I can buy for a Windows XP Pro or Windows 7 > Pro DomU, that allows the following things: > > 1) There is no Windows OEM license for the hardware as Linux is the > Dom0 > O/S and we only install a Windows DomU on a small proportion of boxes > > 2) Normally the customer owns the hardware not us > > We''ve just started shipping a product that requires this setup, and > have > investigated Volume Licensing - but that requires an OEM license for > the > box. SPLA licensing but that requires an OEM license & the box to be > owned by us. > > The only option I''ve had offered by Microsoft is buying retail boxed > licenses, and while I''ll go down that route if I have to, it''s the most > expensive solution, and it''s going to be a real administration headache > with loads of retail boxes and keys flying around. > > Has anybody else had this problem before, and if so do you have any > suggestions. I really am tearing my hair out on this one. > > thanks, > > Anthony Wright. > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
James Harper
2009-Dec-22 21:38 UTC
RE: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
> > I''m having real problems trying to negotiate through Microsoft to be > able to find a license that I can buy for a Windows XP Pro or Windows7> Pro DomU, that allows the following things: > > 1) There is no Windows OEM license for the hardware as Linux is theDom0> O/S and we only install a Windows DomU on a small proportion of boxesMy (non-lawyer) opinion is that from a licensing point of view, Xen+Dom0 is nothing more than an abstraction layer between Windows and the hardware. If you buy OEM software with the machine then you are within your rights to run it on the machine, whether under the BIOS or under Xen. But you can''t really get XP anymore except if you are a vendor the size of HP, Dell, IBM, etc, and Windows 7 OEM may well include a specific clause about virtualisation... James _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Anthony Wright
2009-Dec-23 15:39 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
I''m interested to look at a server licensing program, I''m just more familiar with the desktop software, and was in a hurry so started there. Essentially I have a dotNET application, and need IIS & the dotNET framework to be able to run it (it''s not suitable for Mono unfortunately). I''m trying to find the cheapest way to do this, and if possible one that doesn''t involve handling large numbers of boxes or licenses. Any information you could provide on the Server 2008 licensing would be really appreciated. Also if you happen to know where I could look at some sale & buyback contracts to use as examples, that would be really useful too. Thanks, Anthony. Nathan Eisenberg wrote:> There''s not a licensing program I am aware of that does what you want using the desktop product lineup. For what you are doing, it sounds like a server OS (server 2008 web if your application is appropriate for that OS), a SPLA, plus some business arrangements (equipment is sold to your company for $1 at the start of the contract, and the customer has an optional $1 buyback at the close of the contract) are required. > > Best Regards, > Nathan Eisenberg > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-users- >> bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wright >> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 8:29 AM >> To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com >> Subject: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual >> machines? >> >> I''m having real problems trying to negotiate through Microsoft to be >> able to find a license that I can buy for a Windows XP Pro or Windows 7 >> Pro DomU, that allows the following things: >> >> 1) There is no Windows OEM license for the hardware as Linux is the >> Dom0 >> O/S and we only install a Windows DomU on a small proportion of boxes >> >> 2) Normally the customer owns the hardware not us >> >> We''ve just started shipping a product that requires this setup, and >> have >> investigated Volume Licensing - but that requires an OEM license for >> the >> box. SPLA licensing but that requires an OEM license & the box to be >> owned by us. >> >> The only option I''ve had offered by Microsoft is buying retail boxed >> licenses, and while I''ll go down that route if I have to, it''s the most >> expensive solution, and it''s going to be a real administration headache >> with loads of retail boxes and keys flying around. >> >> Has anybody else had this problem before, and if so do you have any >> suggestions. I really am tearing my hair out on this one. >> >> thanks, >> >> Anthony Wright. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Xen-users mailing list >> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com >> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Dustin Henning
2009-Dec-23 16:51 UTC
RE: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
Wouldn''t buyback contracts with an option to buy be Potentially dangerous with a virtual machine? I mean, if they own the virtual machine, then do they only own the data, or do they own a potentially perpetual chunk of virtual hardware that you might have to host permanently for free? Obviously this would allow you to continue to sell bandwidth, but when the hardware machine died, the virtual machine didn''t really, so the virtual machine might have to be considered as infallible. Sad to say, but in such a scenario, perhaps virtuozzo ore HyperV with an Enterprise license would be better alternatives. Keep digging, though, I''m sure the list would love to see a solution involving Xen. Dustin -----Original Message----- From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wright Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:39 To: Nathan Eisenberg Cc: xen-users@lists.xensource.com Subject: Re: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines? I''m interested to look at a server licensing program, I''m just more familiar with the desktop software, and was in a hurry so started there. Essentially I have a dotNET application, and need IIS & the dotNET framework to be able to run it (it''s not suitable for Mono unfortunately). I''m trying to find the cheapest way to do this, and if possible one that doesn''t involve handling large numbers of boxes or licenses. Any information you could provide on the Server 2008 licensing would be really appreciated. Also if you happen to know where I could look at some sale & buyback contracts to use as examples, that would be really useful too. Thanks, Anthony. Nathan Eisenberg wrote:> There''s not a licensing program I am aware of that does what you wantusing the desktop product lineup. For what you are doing, it sounds like a server OS (server 2008 web if your application is appropriate for that OS), a SPLA, plus some business arrangements (equipment is sold to your company for $1 at the start of the contract, and the customer has an optional $1 buyback at the close of the contract) are required.> > Best Regards, > Nathan Eisenberg > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-users- >> bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wright >> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 8:29 AM >> To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com >> Subject: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual >> machines? >> >> I''m having real problems trying to negotiate through Microsoft to be >> able to find a license that I can buy for a Windows XP Pro or Windows 7 >> Pro DomU, that allows the following things: >> >> 1) There is no Windows OEM license for the hardware as Linux is the >> Dom0 >> O/S and we only install a Windows DomU on a small proportion of boxes >> >> 2) Normally the customer owns the hardware not us >> >> We''ve just started shipping a product that requires this setup, and >> have >> investigated Volume Licensing - but that requires an OEM license for >> the >> box. SPLA licensing but that requires an OEM license & the box to be >> owned by us. >> >> The only option I''ve had offered by Microsoft is buying retail boxed >> licenses, and while I''ll go down that route if I have to, it''s the most >> expensive solution, and it''s going to be a real administration headache >> with loads of retail boxes and keys flying around. >> >> Has anybody else had this problem before, and if so do you have any >> suggestions. I really am tearing my hair out on this one. >> >> thanks, >> >> Anthony Wright. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Xen-users mailing list >> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com >> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Anthony Wright
2009-Dec-23 19:18 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
What we''re talking about is a buyback contract for the physical hardware. I want our customers to own the hardware (often they supply it), but for the terms of the SPLA licensing agreement from Microsoft my company has to own the hardware. Thus a buyback contract would allow us to buy the hardware from the customer for a nominal $1 while it was needed to provide the service to them, prevent us from selling it to anybody else, include terms to deal with exceptional circumstances like company failure and at any time the customer can buy the hardware back for $1. Buying the hardware back would obviously terminate the contract with them, since they would no longer be licensed for the software. Anthony. Dustin Henning wrote:> Wouldn''t buyback contracts with an option to buy be Potentially > dangerous with a virtual machine? I mean, if they own the virtual machine, > then do they only own the data, or do they own a potentially perpetual chunk > of virtual hardware that you might have to host permanently for free? > Obviously this would allow you to continue to sell bandwidth, but when the > hardware machine died, the virtual machine didn''t really, so the virtual > machine might have to be considered as infallible. Sad to say, but in such > a scenario, perhaps virtuozzo ore HyperV with an Enterprise license would be > better alternatives. Keep digging, though, I''m sure the list would love to > see a solution involving Xen. > Dustin > > -----Original Message----- > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com > [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wright > Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:39 > To: Nathan Eisenberg > Cc: xen-users@lists.xensource.com > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines? > > I''m interested to look at a server licensing program, I''m just more > familiar with the desktop software, and was in a hurry so started there. > Essentially I have a dotNET application, and need IIS & the dotNET > framework to be able to run it (it''s not suitable for Mono > unfortunately). I''m trying to find the cheapest way to do this, and if > possible one that doesn''t involve handling large numbers of boxes or > licenses. > > Any information you could provide on the Server 2008 licensing would be > really appreciated. Also if you happen to know where I could look at > some sale & buyback contracts to use as examples, that would be really > useful too. > > Thanks, > > Anthony. > > Nathan Eisenberg wrote: > >> There''s not a licensing program I am aware of that does what you want >> > using the desktop product lineup. For what you are doing, it sounds like a > server OS (server 2008 web if your application is appropriate for that OS), > a SPLA, plus some business arrangements (equipment is sold to your company > for $1 at the start of the contract, and the customer has an optional $1 > buyback at the close of the contract) are required. > >> Best Regards, >> Nathan Eisenberg >> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-users- >>> bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wright >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 8:29 AM >>> To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com >>> Subject: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual >>> machines? >>> >>> I''m having real problems trying to negotiate through Microsoft to be >>> able to find a license that I can buy for a Windows XP Pro or Windows 7 >>> Pro DomU, that allows the following things: >>> >>> 1) There is no Windows OEM license for the hardware as Linux is the >>> Dom0 >>> O/S and we only install a Windows DomU on a small proportion of boxes >>> >>> 2) Normally the customer owns the hardware not us >>> >>> We''ve just started shipping a product that requires this setup, and >>> have >>> investigated Volume Licensing - but that requires an OEM license for >>> the >>> box. SPLA licensing but that requires an OEM license & the box to be >>> owned by us. >>> >>> The only option I''ve had offered by Microsoft is buying retail boxed >>> licenses, and while I''ll go down that route if I have to, it''s the most >>> expensive solution, and it''s going to be a real administration headache >>> with loads of retail boxes and keys flying around. >>> >>> Has anybody else had this problem before, and if so do you have any >>> suggestions. I really am tearing my hair out on this one. >>> >>> thanks, >>> >>> Anthony Wright. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Xen-users mailing list >>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com >>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >>> >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Xen-users mailing list >> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com >> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Nathan Eisenberg
2009-Dec-23 22:08 UTC
RE: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
Sounds like a buy/buyback program, a SPLA and Server 200x Web are a perfect fit, then. :-) For a SPLA - Essentially, you just track how many licenses of x you are using a month, report that, and write a check. Be careful with the tracking, though - if they come audit you and your numbers are wrong, heaven help you! You''re lucky, the monthly SPLA licensing cost for Web edition is like... ~$10.00/mo/proc/instance (as of a year ago, anyways). Sadly, I don''t have any example buyback contracts on hand as I don''t encounter this problem in my current line of business. I doubt it''s anything particularly complex, though. Best Regards, Nathan Eisenberg _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
James Harper
2009-Dec-23 22:16 UTC
RE: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
> > What we''re talking about is a buyback contract for the physical > hardware. I want our customers to own the hardware (often they supply > it), but for the terms of the SPLA licensing agreement from Microsoftmy> company has to own the hardware. Thus a buyback contract would allowus> to buy the hardware from the customer for a nominal $1 while it was > needed to provide the service to them, prevent us from selling it to > anybody else, include terms to deal with exceptional circumstanceslike> company failure and at any time the customer can buy the hardware back > for $1. Buying the hardware back would obviously terminate thecontract> with them, since they would no longer be licensed for the software. >Your definition of ''buying'' the hardware appears to be at odds with any legal definition of a sale. Does the hardware reside at their premises or at a hosting centre? James _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Nathan Eisenberg
2009-Dec-23 23:29 UTC
RE: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
James, I disagree. How does that fall outside every legal definition of a sale? This is common practice. In any event, it''s important that you verify this with a lawyer. Best Regards, Nathan Eisenberg _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Anthony Wright
2010-Jan-08 17:10 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
I''d prefer to go down the Windows XP Pro/Windows 7 Pro route as I''m told the licensing costs are dramatically lower compared to Server 200x, and this isn''t a high traffic system. SPLA sounds interesting but there seems to be some confusion over whether an OEM license for the box is a pre-requisite to be able to use SPLA licensing. The problem with the OEM license is that we normally run only linux on our boxes so we buy bare metal hardware. However, at a later date we may want to install Windows XP Pro/Windows 7 Pro in a DomU on the box, but I''m told that I''m not allowed to retrospectively buy an OEM license for a box once it has left the manufacturer. Since I can''t get an OEM license for the box it seems that we''re not eligible for Volume licensing, and I''m trying to clarify whether that means I''m not eligible for SPLA licensing too. If you know the answer if have any suggestions I''d really appreciate it. thanks, Anthony Nathan Eisenberg wrote:> Sounds like a buy/buyback program, a SPLA and Server 200x Web are a perfect fit, then. :-) > > For a SPLA - Essentially, you just track how many licenses of x you are using a month, report that, and write a check. Be careful with the tracking, though - if they come audit you and your numbers are wrong, heaven help you! You''re lucky, the monthly SPLA licensing cost for Web edition is like... ~$10.00/mo/proc/instance (as of a year ago, anyways). > > Sadly, I don''t have any example buyback contracts on hand as I don''t encounter this problem in my current line of business. I doubt it''s anything particularly complex, though. > > Best Regards, > Nathan Eisenberg > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
James Harper
2010-Jan-08 22:16 UTC
RE: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
> > I''d prefer to go down the Windows XP Pro/Windows 7 Pro route as I''mtold> the licensing costs are dramatically lower compared to Server 200x,and> this isn''t a high traffic system. > > SPLA sounds interesting but there seems to be some confusion over > whether an OEM license for the box is a pre-requisite to be able touse> SPLA licensing. The problem with the OEM license is that we normallyrun> only linux on our boxes so we buy bare metal hardware. However, at a > later date we may want to install Windows XP Pro/Windows 7 Pro in aDomU> on the box, but I''m told that I''m not allowed to retrospectively buyan> OEM license for a box once it has left the manufacturer. Since I can''t > get an OEM license for the box it seems that we''re not eligible for > Volume licensing, and I''m trying to clarify whether that means I''m not > eligible for SPLA licensing too. > > If you know the answer if have any suggestions I''d really appreciateit.>Microsoft Licensing have all the answers on those questions - give them a call. I am almost certain that an OEM license is not a requirement (SPLA is ideally suited to virtualised environments), but Microsoft Licensing will confirm it one way or the other. James _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Nathan Eisenberg
2010-Jan-11 20:19 UTC
RE: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
> -----Original Message----- > From: Anthony Wright [mailto:anthony@overnetdata.com] > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:10 AM > To: Nathan Eisenberg; xen-users@lists.xensource.com > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual > machines? > > I''d prefer to go down the Windows XP Pro/Windows 7 Pro route as I''m > told > the licensing costs are dramatically lower compared to Server 200x, and > this isn''t a high traffic system. > > SPLA sounds interesting but there seems to be some confusion over > whether an OEM license for the box is a pre-requisite to be able to use > SPLA licensing. The problem with the OEM license is that we normally > run > only linux on our boxes so we buy bare metal hardware. However, at a > later date we may want to install Windows XP Pro/Windows 7 Pro in a > DomU > on the box, but I''m told that I''m not allowed to retrospectively buy an > OEM license for a box once it has left the manufacturer. Since I can''t > get an OEM license for the box it seems that we''re not eligible for > Volume licensing, and I''m trying to clarify whether that means I''m not > eligible for SPLA licensing too. > > If you know the answer if have any suggestions I''d really appreciate > it. > > thanks, > > Anthony >Depending on the service you offer, using Windows XP/7 may be at odds with the licensing agreement, since they are not server OS''s. I''ll bet that''s part of why an OEM license is required for SPLA win7/winXP licenses, but is not required for server OS''s. I concur with James, though. Call MS Licensing. They''ll very likely help. Best Regards, Nathan Eisenberg _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Anthony Wright
2010-Feb-17 14:56 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
I thought I''d get back to the list to let people know where I got to.... I considered two versions of windows, Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008, but since my software will work with either and Windows 7 comes in a fraction of the price of Windows Server 2008, I decided to go with Windows 7. Next I looked at the various licenses for Windows 7, the first being the OEM license. Unfortunately you can only get an OEM license with new hardware, you can''t buy an OEM license for hardware that you''ve already bought. Unfortunately the hardware I buy doesn''t normally come with an OEM license because in most cases I won''t be installing windows on the machine (even within a VM), and in many cases where I do install a Windows VM it''s quite a while after the hardware has been bought. This meant an OEM license wasn''t an option. Next I looked at Volume licensing, but before you can apply volume licensing to a machine, it must already have an OEM license. Since we know it doesn''t from about, this excludes Volume licensing. Next I looked at SPLA licensing (VM rental licensing), but like the Volume licensing the machine must already have an OEM license. It''s also a requirement for SPLA that you own the physical hardware which in some cases I don''t. This excludes SPLA licensing. Finally I looked at Boxed Retail licensing, and that seemed to fit the bill. There''s no restriction on who owns the hardware, it can be run within a VM and I can buy it at any time. However, it is the most expensive option, and it means I''ve got to manage lots of boxes and piece of paper, which is a real pain. I spent a lot of time talking to Microsoft licensing specialists to get here, mainly because I couldn''t believe Boxed licensing was the only way to do it. If anybody else has any further suggestions I''d be very interested, but I''ve got a solution that works, so I''m reasonable happy. Cheers, Anthony. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Ben Holt
2010-Feb-17 21:43 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
Anthony Wright said the following:> > Next I looked at the various licenses for Windows 7, the first being the > OEM license. Unfortunately you can only get an OEM license with new > hardware, you can''t buy an OEM license for hardware that you''ve already > bought. >It''s been a while since I bought a software license, but the last time I did it was for an OEM copy of XP. I don''t know if the loop hole is still open, but the only hardware I had to buy was a CD audio cable, which I think came to $1 or something silly like that. - Ben _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Dustin Henning
2010-Feb-17 22:00 UTC
RE: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
Whether or not that "loophole" is legal is debatable. Just because a reseller will give you an OEM license with a CD-ROM drive or audio cable doesn''t mean they haven''t take artistic liberties in their interpretation of their agreement with Microsoft and/or the OEM license. However, assuming it is legal, said CD-ROM drive or audio cable would have to be installed in the machine the license is being used on in order to meet the conditions of the "loophole." Seeing as how a virtual machine technically has no hardware, unless it is also legal to consider the host''s hardware applicable to the OEM license, this "loophole" still wouldn''t be effective. That said, it would allow for the purchase of volume licensing for the virtual machine on the hardware that had the OEM license once the OEM license was obtained, but at that point, the cost is probably going to be greater than the initial retail license (unless you are to have several Windows VMs on one machine, but even then the volume licensing might require an OEM license per volume license), and you are still keeping track of individual OEM licenses and their keys the same way you are with the retail ones, only then that tracking is in addition to the volume licensing. Dustin -----Original Message----- From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Ben Holt Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 16:44 Cc: xen-users@lists.xensource.com Subject: Re: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines? Anthony Wright said the following:> > Next I looked at the various licenses for Windows 7, the first being the > OEM license. Unfortunately you can only get an OEM license with new > hardware, you can''t buy an OEM license for hardware that you''ve already > bought. >It''s been a while since I bought a software license, but the last time I did it was for an OEM copy of XP. I don''t know if the loop hole is still open, but the only hardware I had to buy was a CD audio cable, which I think came to $1 or something silly like that. - Ben _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
James Harper
2010-Feb-18 00:28 UTC
RE: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
> > I considered two versions of windows, Windows 7 and Windows Server2008,> but since my software will work with either and Windows 7 comes in a > fraction of the price of Windows Server 2008, I decided to go with > Windows 7.You used to be able run a single Windows 2003 Enterprise license in up to 4 virtual machines on a single physical server. I''m not sure that 2008 Enterprise is the same, but Enterprise is nearly 5 times the price of Standard so you wouldn''t be saving anything there unfortunately. What are your VM''s going to be doing? James _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Ben Holt
2010-Feb-18 04:09 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
Dustin Henning said the following:> Whether or not that "loophole" is legal is debatable.No it isn''t. It was widely employed and promoted by MS in back channels. Reading the current Windows 7 OEM license (http://oem.microsoft.com/public/sblicense/2008_sb_licenses/fy08_sb_license_english.pdf) point 5c indicates it is still a valid option.> However, assuming it > is legal, said CD-ROM drive or audio cable would have to be installed in the > machine the license is being used on in order to meet the conditions of the > "loophole."That''s easy enough, assuming you still have a CD/DVD-ROM drive in your machine.> Seeing as how a virtual machine technically has no hardware, > unless it is also legal to consider the host''s hardware applicable to the > OEM license, this "loophole" still wouldn''t be effective.Have you read the license? IANAL, but I wouldn''t dismiss it without checking. I don''t see any mention of virtualisation or VMs in the OEM System Builder License. I could be reading the license too liberally, but I think you are over complicating matters.> That said, it > would allow for the purchase of volume licensing for the virtual machine on > the hardware that had the OEM license once the OEM license was obtained, but > at that point, the cost is probably going to be greater than the initial > retail license (unless you are to have several Windows VMs on one machine, > but even then the volume licensing might require an OEM license per volume > license), and you are still keeping track of individual OEM licenses and > their keys the same way you are with the retail ones, only then that > tracking is in addition to the volume licensing. >When I read things like this I smile and think about how little I miss proprietary software and the peripheral headaches that come with it. Anthony, best of luck sorting out your licensing :-p. - Ben _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Florian Manschwetus
2010-Feb-18 12:11 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
Am 18.02.2010 01:28, schrieb James Harper:>> > You used to be able run a single Windows 2003 Enterprise license in up > to 4 virtual machines on a single physical server. I''m not sure that > 2008 Enterprise is the same, but Enterprise is nearly 5 times the price > of Standard so you wouldn''t be saving anything there unfortunately. > > What are your VM''s going to be doing? > > JamesWith 2008 R2 Enterprise it is the same, you are allowed to have 4 VMs running, as long as you not use the physical for other purpose then licensing hyper-v to run those other 4. florian _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Anthony Wright
2010-Feb-18 16:40 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
Ben Holt wrote:> Anthony Wright said the following: >> >> Next I looked at the various licenses for Windows 7, the first being the >> OEM license. Unfortunately you can only get an OEM license with new >> hardware, you can''t buy an OEM license for hardware that you''ve already >> bought. >> > It''s been a while since I bought a software license, but the last time > I did it was for an OEM copy of XP. I don''t know if the loop hole is > still open, but the only hardware I had to buy was a CD audio cable, > which I think came to $1 or something silly like that. > > - BenMy understanding of the OEM licensing situation is that while I can get hold of OEM licenses using the tricks that you describe and the VMs would pass windows authentication, I wouldn''t be adhering to the terms of the OEM license - using them to license VMs rather that physical hardware + not buying them with the hardware. This means that the licenses wouldn''t be valid, and so if I ever got audited I would be found to be in breach of the OEM licenses and therefore my copies of windows would be unlicensed. Anthony. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Anthony Wright
2010-Feb-18 16:46 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] How do I get Windows licenses for virtual machines?
Ben Holt wrote:> When I read things like this I smile and think about how little I > miss proprietary software and the peripheral headaches that come with it. > > Anthony, best of luck sorting out your licensing :-p. > > - BenTell me about it. With my linux VMs the whole licensing issue simply doesn''t exist. With windows I''ve spent literally months trying to work out what licensing I need, now I''ve got the administrative overhead of lots of physical Windows 7 boxes and license keys to look after, and added to that is the trouble trying to automate the VM installation process (windows 7 is much easier than XP, but still a pain). Anthony. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users