Xen users - May 2009 - my first XEN Installation I need some advice

Hi all,

I am just about to set up my first XEN-Server based on Ubuntu 9.04. I have a
SuperMicro Board with 2 Nehalem Procs, a RAID 6 and 2 Intel 82576
NIC''s. The Ubuntu Server Installation went well. So, now I am about to
install XEN 3.3 and I hope that that will work out fairly well and smooth, too.

But before I start I have some questions and I hope that some of you will give
some sort of advice / guideance.

I want / need to have:

1 PDC Server with Active Directory, DNS, DHCP based on Windows 2008 Server

1 Exchange Server 2007

1 Application Server Windows Server 2008


First question is: Is it possible to have WinServer2008 running on XEN?

Second question is: Do I have to have special Images to install WinServer2008
and Exchange2007?

Okay, I certainly do have some more questions ;-) but I hope that one of you
will answer me first of all the 2 questions above.

Thanks a lot
Niels
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Hi Niels Jende,
> First question is: Is it possible to have WinServer2008 running on XEN?
I don''t see any problems. But you have to use HVM.
> Second question is: Do I have to have special Images to install
WinServer2008 and Exchange2007?
The only question you have to "worry" about is your performance. Use 
Stubdom or GPLPV to get the best out of your hardware, else Xen will do 
something like "emulating", which is - of course - not as fast as PV
or
Stubdom.

Fabian

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> Hi Niels Jende,
> 
> I don''t see any problems. But you have to use HVM.
>
HVM, okay. Do you mean that I have to install XEN with HVM Support? If so, would
you mind telling me how to do that? As said, this will be my first installation.
 
> > Second question is: Do I have to have special Images to install
WinServer2008 and Exchange2007?
> 
> The only question you have to "worry" about is your performance.
Use
> Stubdom or GPLPV to get the best out of your hardware, else Xen will do 
> something like "emulating", which is - of course - not as fast as
PV or
> Stubdom.
>
Hmmm...I have two books on my desk and in none is something like Stubdom or
GPLVL? Would you please explain what both means and how I have to install them?
 
> Fabian
>
Thanks Fabian
Greets
Niels 


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Hi Niels Jende,
> HVM, okay. Do you mean that I have to install XEN with HVM Support? If so,
would you mind telling me how to do that? As said, this will be my first
installation.
you don''t need to "install" them. If you use
ubuntu-default-xen, than
you already have everything. Just check the example-configs or

http://www.virtuatopia.com/index.php/Virtualizing_Windows_Server_2008_with_Xen
>>> Second question is: Do I have to have special Images to install
WinServer2008 and Exchange2007?
>> The only question you have to "worry" about is your
performance. Use
>> Stubdom or GPLPV to get the best out of your hardware, else Xen will do
>> something like "emulating", which is - of course - not as
fast as PV or
>> Stubdom.
>>
> 
> Hmmm...I have two books on my desk and in none is something like Stubdom or
GPLVL? Would you please explain what both means and how I have to install them?
Sorry ;)

Stubdom: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=stubdom
GPLPV: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=GPLPV

Nice weather our there, isn''t it ;)

Fabian

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I''d suggest to use a recent Xen (3.4) and use viridian. If
that''s not an
option you should consider to not use multiple vcpu''s per domU.

For performance reasons I''d strongly recommend to use GPLPV drivers in 
Windows guests.


Best regards,
    Christian


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Hi Fabian,
> you don''t need to "install" them. If you use
ubuntu-default-xen, than
> you already have everything. Just check the example-configs or
>
well, I gave the ubuntu-default-xen a try, but this package couldn''t
get find. Maybe it is obsolete??? Who knows...However, I found ubuntu-server-xen
and installed that instead.
However, I installed, as far as I can say, all xen packages and now I''m
looking for some sort of a HowTo. Haven''t found one yet for Ubuntu
Server 9.04 aka Jaunty. Shouldn''t I need a XEN-Kernel?
 
>
http://www.virtuatopia.com/index.php/Virtualizing_Windows_Server_2008_with_Xen
>
well, I bookmarked that and I''ll read it at some stage tonight.
 
> 
> Sorry ;)
>
No worries, mate ;-)
 
> Stubdom: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=stubdom
> GPLPV: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=GPLPV
> 
> Nice weather our there, isn''t it ;)
>
Yep, the weather is almost to good to sit in the office and try to figure out
how to get XEN runnunig.

Thanks again
Greets
Niels 

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Hi Niels Jende,

 > well, I gave the ubuntu-default-xen a try, but this package
couldn''t
get find. Maybe it is obsolete??? Who knows...However, I found 
ubuntu-server-xen and installed that instead. However, I installed, as 
far as I can say, all xen packages and now I''m looking for some sort of
a HowTo. Haven''t found one yet for Ubuntu Server 9.04 aka Jaunty. 
Shouldn''t I need a XEN-Kernel?

Yes, you need a "-xen"-kernel at least in Dom0. I personally use
Debian,
thats why I don''t know how the packages are called in Ubuntu.

In Debian you have the choice:

- Install "linux-image-2.6-xen-amd64/i686" and the suggested
xen-hypervisor.

or: "Nichts ist besser als Handarbeit"

As soon as "xm info" is running without problems. You have
successfully
installed and started Xen.

FYI: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Xen

Fabian

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Hi Niels Jende,

 > well, I gave the ubuntu-default-xen a try, but this package
couldn''t
get find. Maybe it is obsolete??? Who knows...However, I found 
ubuntu-server-xen and installed that instead. However, I installed, as 
far as I can say, all xen packages and now I''m looking for some sort of
a HowTo. Haven''t found one yet for Ubuntu Server 9.04 aka Jaunty. 
Shouldn''t I need a XEN-Kernel?

Yes, you need a "-xen"-kernel at least in Dom0. I personally use
Debian,
thats why I don''t know how the packages are called in Ubuntu.

In Debian you have the choice:

- Install "linux-image-2.6-xen-amd64/i686" and the suggested
xen-hypervisor.

or: "Nichts ist besser als Handarbeit"

As soon as "xm info" is running without problems. You have
successfully
installed and started Xen.

FYI: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Xen

Fabian

_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

I''d recommend you use Debian as well.  Ubuntu seems to be abandoning
Xen in favor of KVM (?), and the packages aren''t being maintained well.
The last time I tried to build an Ubuntu Xen server, I gave up after two hours
of fighting packages.

I have several Debian Dom0s in production, though, and they work great!  Also,
the general configuration has not changed all that much in the last year or so,
or between debian-based distros, so many of the older howtos still work for the
most part (like how to use HVM or GPLPV.  Not sure about stubdom, I really need
to learn that...)

Thank You,
Nathan Eisenberg
Sr. Systems Administrator
Atlas Networks, LLC
Atlas Networks is an Atlas Accelerator Company 


-----Original Message-----
From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com
[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Fabian Zimmermann
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:45 AM
To: Niels Jende
Cc: xen-users@lists.xensource.com
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] my first XEN Installation I need some advice

Hi Niels Jende,

 > well, I gave the ubuntu-default-xen a try, but this package
couldn''t
get find. Maybe it is obsolete??? Who knows...However, I found 
ubuntu-server-xen and installed that instead. However, I installed, as 
far as I can say, all xen packages and now I''m looking for some sort of
a HowTo. Haven''t found one yet for Ubuntu Server 9.04 aka Jaunty. 
Shouldn''t I need a XEN-Kernel?

Yes, you need a "-xen"-kernel at least in Dom0. I personally use
Debian,
thats why I don''t know how the packages are called in Ubuntu.

In Debian you have the choice:

- Install "linux-image-2.6-xen-amd64/i686" and the suggested
xen-hypervisor.

or: "Nichts ist besser als Handarbeit"

As soon as "xm info" is running without problems. You have
successfully
installed and started Xen.

FYI: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Xen

Fabian

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>I''d recommend you use Debian as well.  Ubuntu seems to be
abandoning
>Xen in favor of KVM (?), and the packages aren''t being maintained
well. 
>The last time I tried to build an Ubuntu Xen server, I gave up after two 
>hours of fighting packages.
*******************************************
Xen 3.4 hackery on Ubuntu 9.04 Server:-
*******************************************

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/120598/index.html

--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Nathan Eisenberg <nathan@atlasnetworks.us> wrote:

From: Nathan Eisenberg <nathan@atlasnetworks.us>
Subject: RE: [Xen-users] my first XEN Installation I need some advice
To: 
Cc: "xen-users@lists.xensource.com"
<xen-users@lists.xensource.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 11:26 AM

I''d recommend you use Debian as well.  Ubuntu seems to be abandoning
Xen in favor of KVM (?), and the packages aren''t being maintained
well.  The last time I tried to build an Ubuntu Xen server, I gave up after two
hours of fighting packages.

I have several Debian Dom0s in production, though, and they work great!  Also,
the general configuration has not changed all that much in the last year or so,
or between debian-based distros, so many of the older howtos still work for the
most part (like how to use HVM or GPLPV.  Not sure about stubdom, I really need
to learn that...)

Thank You,
Nathan Eisenberg
Sr. Systems Administrator
Atlas Networks, LLC
Atlas Networks is an Atlas Accelerator Company 


-----Original Message-----
From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com
[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Fabian Zimmermann
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:45 AM
To: Niels Jende
Cc: xen-users@lists.xensource.com
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] my first XEN Installation I need some advice

Hi Niels Jende,

 > well, I gave the ubuntu-default-xen a try, but this package
couldn''t
get find. Maybe it is obsolete??? Who knows...However, I found 
ubuntu-server-xen and installed that instead. However, I installed, as 
far as I can say, all xen packages and now I''m looking for some sort of
a HowTo. Haven''t found one yet for Ubuntu Server 9.04 aka Jaunty. 
Shouldn''t I need a XEN-Kernel?

Yes, you need a "-xen"-kernel at least in Dom0. I personally use
Debian,
thats why I don''t know how the packages are called in Ubuntu.

In Debian you have the choice:

- Install "linux-image-2.6-xen-amd64/i686" and the suggested
xen-hypervisor.

or: "Nichts ist besser als Handarbeit"

As soon as "xm info" is running without problems. You have
successfully
installed and started Xen.

FYI: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Xen

Fabian

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On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Niels Jende <mylists1@web.de>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am just about to set up my first XEN-Server based on Ubuntu 9.04.
If you can live with the "hacks" required (see other responses) then
you should be fine.
If you want easy installation, use RHEL/Centos, and optionally Xen
packages from http://www.gitco.de/repo/
IMHO this is the easiest way to get the latest version of Xen running.

Other users have reported that Debian dom0 also runs quite well.
> I want / need to have:
>
> 1 PDC Server with Active Directory, DNS, DHCP based on Windows 2008 Server
>
> 1 Exchange Server 2007
>
> 1 Application Server Windows Server 2008
If all your domUs are Windows, it''d probably be better if you use
Windows 2008''s Hyper-V instead.
> First question is: Is it possible to have WinServer2008 running on XEN?
Yes
> Second question is: Do I have to have special Images to install
WinServer2008 and Exchange2007?
No.
To get maximum performance, you should use block device (partition,
LVM) as domU backend instead of using file-backed storage (the default
option). And don''t forget to install GPLPV.

-- 
Fajar

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Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
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I''ve had huge issues with Hyper-V''s performance in production.
The blockIO layer is significantly worse than vanilla HVM in Xen.

Best Regards
Nathan Eisenberg
Sr. Systems Administrator
Atlas Networks, LLC
support@atlasnetworks.us
http://support.atlasnetworks.us/portal


-----Original Message-----
From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com
[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Fajar A. Nugraha
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:26 PM
To: Xen User-List
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] my first XEN Installation I need some advice

On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Niels Jende <mylists1@web.de>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am just about to set up my first XEN-Server based on Ubuntu 9.04.
If you can live with the "hacks" required (see other responses) then
you should be fine.
If you want easy installation, use RHEL/Centos, and optionally Xen
packages from http://www.gitco.de/repo/
IMHO this is the easiest way to get the latest version of Xen running.

Other users have reported that Debian dom0 also runs quite well.
> I want / need to have:
>
> 1 PDC Server with Active Directory, DNS, DHCP based on Windows 2008 Server
>
> 1 Exchange Server 2007
>
> 1 Application Server Windows Server 2008
If all your domUs are Windows, it''d probably be better if you use
Windows 2008''s Hyper-V instead.
> First question is: Is it possible to have WinServer2008 running on XEN?
Yes
> Second question is: Do I have to have special Images to install
WinServer2008 and Exchange2007?
No.
To get maximum performance, you should use block device (partition,
LVM) as domU backend instead of using file-backed storage (the default
option). And don''t forget to install GPLPV.

-- 
Fajar

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http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users





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On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:46 PM, Nathan Eisenberg
<nathan@atlasnetworks.us> wrote:
> I''ve had huge issues with Hyper-V''s performance in
production.  The blockIO layer is significantly worse than vanilla HVM in Xen.
Really? Even with windows 2008 guests?

If it''s THAT slower, then I can tell you this much : you''ll be
happy
using Xen IF you :
- use block-device (disk, partition, LVM, zvols, etc.) as domU
storage, and not file-backed (raw, qcow, vmdk, etc.)
- you install GPLPV

It should give at least twice the I/O performance of vanilla HVM for
Windows guests.
Also note that last time I check using 1 CPU for domU yields higer I/O
performance compared to SMP, so if your domU is I/O intensive you
might want to stick with 1 CPU.

As for dom0 distro I''m using RHEL5.3 (Centos should be the same), with
xen rpms from http://www.gitco.de/repo/ (if I need to use the latest
Xen version). They''ve been stable, and easy to install and manage.

-- 
Fajar

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Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
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I''ve got HVM GPLPV and nonGPLPV based hosts running in XEN, and they
work great - all block-device backed.  I also only use Debian for Dom0 because
the package is good and I know Debian better than anything else.

I''ve totally eliminated Hyper-V, as it''s been far too slow.  I
do have some Virtuozzo stuff for the native-performance virtualization, but the
license isn''t free which means I''m picky about what I used it
for.  :)

Best Regards
Nathan Eisenberg
Sr. Systems Administrator
Atlas Networks, LLC
support@atlasnetworks.us
http://support.atlasnetworks.us/portal


-----Original Message-----
From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com
[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Fajar A. Nugraha
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:10 AM
To: Xen User-List
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] my first XEN Installation I need some advice

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:46 PM, Nathan Eisenberg
<nathan@atlasnetworks.us> wrote:
> I''ve had huge issues with Hyper-V''s performance in
production.  The blockIO layer is significantly worse than vanilla HVM in Xen.
Really? Even with windows 2008 guests?

If it''s THAT slower, then I can tell you this much : you''ll be
happy
using Xen IF you :
- use block-device (disk, partition, LVM, zvols, etc.) as domU
storage, and not file-backed (raw, qcow, vmdk, etc.)
- you install GPLPV

It should give at least twice the I/O performance of vanilla HVM for
Windows guests.
Also note that last time I check using 1 CPU for domU yields higer I/O
performance compared to SMP, so if your domU is I/O intensive you
might want to stick with 1 CPU.

As for dom0 distro I''m using RHEL5.3 (Centos should be the same), with
xen rpms from http://www.gitco.de/repo/ (if I need to use the latest
Xen version). They''ve been stable, and easy to install and manage.

-- 
Fajar

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