Xen users - Feb 2009 - Anything come close to esx for xen?

Just wondering if there is anything out there which comes close to esxi but for
Xen.


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Am Montag, den 23.02.2009, 13:34 -0600 schrieb
lists@grounded.net:
> Just wondering if there is anything out there which comes close to esxi but
for Xen.

Yeah - it s here: www.openqrm.com

Thomas
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

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Thomas Halinka ha scritto:
> Am Montag, den 23.02.2009, 13:34 -0600 schrieb lists@grounded.net:
>> Just wondering if there is anything out there which comes close to esxi
but for Xen.
> 
> 
> Yeah - it s here: www.openqrm.com
> 
> Thomas
>>
Or just use the Enterprise Edition of XenServer - it''ll soon be totally
free!

- AS

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> Or just use the Enterprise Edition of XenServer - it''ll soon be
totally
> free!
Wow, that''s interesting.
Gee, pretty soon, someone will tell me there''s a bare metal install of
Xen that''s just like ESX. Install the server, fire up the client, set
datastores and off we go :).


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It is already! Xen Enterprise server just today releases as Free.

http://www.virtualization.info/2009/02/citrix-xenserver-is-now-free-xencenter.html



2009/2/23 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>:
>> Or just use the Enterprise Edition of XenServer - it''ll soon
be totally
>> free!
>
> Wow, that''s interesting.
> Gee, pretty soon, someone will tell me there''s a bare metal
install of Xen that''s just like ESX. Install the server, fire up the
client, set datastores and off we go :).
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>
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Wow!

Looks like its on like donkey kong!

- Brian




On Feb 23, 2009, at 12:14 PM, Peter Braun wrote:
> It is already! Xen Enterprise server just today releases as Free.
>
>
http://www.virtualization.info/2009/02/citrix-xenserver-is-now-free-xencenter.html
>
>
>
> 2009/2/23 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>:
>>> Or just use the Enterprise Edition of XenServer - it''ll
soon be
>>> totally
>>> free!
>>
>> Wow, that''s interesting.
>> Gee, pretty soon, someone will tell me there''s a bare metal
install
>> of Xen that''s just like ESX. Install the server, fire up the  
>> client, set datastores and off we go :).
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

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This is pretty Bullshit!!

It s more expensive then before if you need "real management"!

Kick That sh*t out!

Thomas


Am Montag, den 23.02.2009, 21:14 +0100 schrieb Peter
Braun:
> It is already! Xen Enterprise server just today releases as Free.
> 
>
http://www.virtualization.info/2009/02/citrix-xenserver-is-now-free-xencenter.html
> 
> 
> 
> 2009/2/23 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>:
> >> Or just use the Enterprise Edition of XenServer - it''ll
soon be totally
> >> free!
> >
> > Wow, that''s interesting.
> > Gee, pretty soon, someone will tell me there''s a bare metal
install of Xen that''s just like ESX. Install the server, fire up the
client, set datastores and off we go :).
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Xen-users mailing list
> > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

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Well, that''s good news but, to be honest, I''m a bit nervous
about using vmware, citrix, anything that''s not just plain open source.
I fear that once I''ve adopted these things, licensing could change, I
would be forced to change everything that I''ve spent so much time and
energy on. Or, features keep being put into the ''commercial''
version side, slowly trying to force me into buying.

Quite honestly, I love the non commercial products not because they are free so
much but because things don''t change, they don''t often
suddenly become bound to licenses, etc.

Mike


On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:14:43 +0100, Peter Braun wrote:
> It is already! Xen Enterprise server just today releases as Free.
> 
> http://www.virtualization.info/2009/02/citrix-xenserver-is-now-free-
> xencenter.html
> 
> 
> 2009/2/23 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>:
>>> Or just use the Enterprise Edition of XenServer - it''ll
soon be totally
>>> free!
>>> 
>> Wow, that''s interesting.
>> Gee, pretty soon, someone will tell me there''s a bare metal
install of
>> Xen that''s just like ESX. Install the server, fire up the
client, set
>> datastores and off we go :).
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


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Talk about frustrating :). Just can''t tell what''s what? Free
so often means ''features'' at a price these days.

On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:29:49 +0100, Thomas Halinka
wrote:
> 
> 
> This is pretty Bullshit!!
> 
> It s more expensive then before if you need "real management"!
> 
> Kick That sh*t out!
> 
> Thomas
> 
> 
> Am Montag, den 23.02.2009, 21:14 +0100 schrieb Peter Braun:
>> It is already! Xen Enterprise server just today releases as Free.
>> 
>> http://www.virtualization.info/2009/02/citrix-xenserver-is-now-free-
>> xencenter.html
>> 
>> 
>> 2009/2/23 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>:
>>>> Or just use the Enterprise Edition of XenServer -
it''ll soon be
>>>> totally
>>>> free!
>>>> 
>>> Wow, that''s interesting.
>>> Gee, pretty soon, someone will tell me there''s a bare
metal install of
>>> Xen that''s just like ESX. Install the server, fire up the
client, set
>>> datastores and off we go :).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


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I have to disagree to the statement that "things don't change" in
regards to opensource. the only thing that doesn't chnage (most of the time)
is licensing. I've seen it change with pptp-client years back.

I love opensouce but there is still a lot to be said with commercial software.
As a long time vm (gsx series) user I will say there product was pretty solid,
whereas I wouldn't be in this list today if xen was as solid and easy  (not
knocking xen here, its come very far -- but has had growing pains).

I think todays release is a good thing and I will probably use it along side of
my xen and vmware servers.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "lists@grounded.net" <lists@grounded.net>

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:43:32 
To: xen-users<xen-users@lists.xensource.com>
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Anything come close to esx for xen?


Well, that's good news but, to be honest, I'm a bit nervous about using
vmware, citrix, anything that's not just plain open source. I fear that once
I've adopted these things, licensing could change, I would be forced to
change everything that I've spent so much time and energy on. Or, features
keep being put into the 'commercial' version side, slowly trying to
force me into buying.

Quite honestly, I love the non commercial products not because they are free so
much but because things don't change, they don't often suddenly become
bound to licenses, etc.

Mike


On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:14:43 +0100, Peter Braun wrote:
> It is already! Xen Enterprise server just today releases as Free.
> 
> http://www.virtualization.info/2009/02/citrix-xenserver-is-now-free-
> xencenter.html
> 
> 
> 2009/2/23 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>:
>>> Or just use the Enterprise Edition of XenServer - it'll soon be
totally
>>> free!
>>> 
>> Wow, that's interesting.
>> Gee, pretty soon, someone will tell me there's a bare metal install
of
>> Xen that's just like ESX. Install the server, fire up the client,
set
>> datastores and off we go :).
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


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Corrected, things DO change, just not that often :). 

Been using open source since the early 90''s and most projects have
remained open while some have indeed gone commercial. No problem with
commercial, that''s not my point. My point is, don''t need the
surprises. If I use an open source project, I hope I can use it long term. If I
use a commercial product, same thing.

Of course, either can change as well but again, my point is simply about being
surprised.

Mike


On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:50:19 +0000, Gary Smith wrote:
> I have to disagree to the statement that "things don''t
change" in regards
> to opensource. the only thing that doesn''t chnage (most of the
time) is
> licensing. I''ve seen it change with pptp-client years back.
> 
> I love opensouce but there is still a lot to be said with commercial
> software. As a long time vm (gsx series) user I will say there product was
> pretty solid, whereas I wouldn''t be in this list today if xen was
as solid
> and easy  (not knocking xen here, its come very far -- but has had growing
> pains).
> 
> I think todays release is a good thing and I will probably use it along
> side of my xen and vmware servers.
> 
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "lists@grounded.net" <lists@grounded.net>
> 
> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:43:32
> To: xen-users<xen-users@lists.xensource.com>
> Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Anything come close to esx for xen?
> 
> 
> Well, that''s good news but, to be honest, I''m a bit
nervous about using
> vmware, citrix, anything that''s not just plain open source. I fear
that
> once I''ve adopted these things, licensing could change, I would be
forced
> to change everything that I''ve spent so much time and energy on.
Or,
> features keep being put into the ''commercial'' version
side, slowly trying
> to force me into buying.
> 
> Quite honestly, I love the non commercial products not because they are
> free so much but because things don''t change, they don''t
often suddenly
> become bound to licenses, etc.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:14:43 +0100, Peter Braun wrote:
>> It is already! Xen Enterprise server just today releases as Free.
>> 
>> http://www.virtualization.info/2009/02/citrix-xenserver-is-now-free-
>> xencenter.html
>> 
>> 
>> 2009/2/23 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>:
>>>> Or just use the Enterprise Edition of XenServer -
it''ll soon be
>>>> totally
>>>> free!
>>>> 
>>> Wow, that''s interesting.
>>> Gee, pretty soon, someone will tell me there''s a bare
metal install of
>>> Xen that''s just like ESX. Install the server, fire up the
client, set
>>> datastores and off we go :).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


<Snip>
Wow, that''s interesting.
Gee, pretty soon, someone will tell me there''s a bare metal install
of Xen that''s just like ESX. Install the server, fire up the client,
set datastores and off we go :).
</Snip>

This feature (The bear metal stuff is part of oVirt[1], Install a
management node, (VMWare VI3 Style web GUI [2]) then just PXE the
compute nodes, they get a virtulization kernel and become managed
by the management node... Simple bear metal scalable virtulization
system

And 110% Open Source  :-)

[1] http://ovirt.org/
[2] http://ovirt.org/screenshots.html

- --

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The happiest of people don''t necessarily have the best of
everything,
they just make the most of everything that comes along their way.."
Gavin Spurgeon.
AKA Da Geek
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Version: GnuPG v2.0.10 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Hot dang, another good lead! Thanks, I''ll look into this as well.

Mike


On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:30:20 +0000, Gavin Spurgeon
wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> <Snip>
> Wow, that''s interesting.
> Gee, pretty soon, someone will tell me there''s a bare metal
install
> of Xen that''s just like ESX. Install the server, fire up the
client,
> set datastores and off we go :).
> </Snip>
> 
> This feature (The bear metal stuff is part of oVirt[1], Install a
> management node, (VMWare VI3 Style web GUI [2]) then just PXE the
> compute nodes, they get a virtulization kernel and become managed
> by the management node... Simple bear metal scalable virtulization
> system
> 
> And 110% Open Source  :-)
> 
> [1] http://ovirt.org/
> [2] http://ovirt.org/screenshots.html
> 
> - --
> 
> - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> "The happiest of people don''t necessarily have the best of
everything,
> they just make the most of everything that comes along their way.."
> Gavin Spurgeon.
> AKA Da Geek
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.10 (Darwin)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAkmjI3wACgkQyjJL47xfMH0uqwCePXNzKLphMwOw/kowe5ydJMES
> dlYAoIfLkEMtQhavqy1WmBkK9Bo7PVf+
> =bqt/
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


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lists@grounded.net wrote:
> Corrected, things DO change, just not that often :). 
> 
> Been using open source since the early 90''s and most projects have
remained open while some have indeed gone commercial. No problem with
commercial, that''s not my point. My point is, don''t need the
surprises. If I use an open source project, I hope I can use it long term. If I
use a commercial product, same thing.
> 
> Of course, either can change as well but again, my point is simply about
being surprised.
> 
> Mike
The licensing change is unclear to me. Is it free as free beer, or free
as freedom? Is XenServer now in open source? Where can I find such
information?

I have the feeling it''s just free as free beer. In fact, I
don''t like AT
ALL the spirit of Citrix here. We can see in the press release:

“Free hypervisors with limited functionality have been around for a long
time."

Just as if the hypervisor of the OpenSource Xen was too limited. This is
trying to confuse people, so they think that only the non open source
version of the Xen hypervisor was good... The reality is in fact that
the paid version of Xen adds almost nothing, except maybe being stuck to
a silly RPM based distributions.

All this is definitively not for me, I''d rather continue working on our
own open source project (REALLY free: free as freedom to see my
code...), that clearly leads the way: we are the only company in the
world that has released an open source web control panel aimed at
commercial VPS hosting which is included/shipped in Debian Lenny. I have
just added an "appliance builder" tonight (point and click, and you
have
a VPS with nx-server automatically setup using apt at the first boot...).

People working with open source will ALWAYS be better integrated, or
even shipped with the distributions. THAT changes everything.

Thomas Goirand


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On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 5:30 AM, Gavin Spurgeon <gspurgeon@dageek.co.uk>
wrote:
> This feature (The bear metal stuff is part of oVirt[1], Install a
> management node, (VMWare VI3 Style web GUI [2]) then just PXE the
> compute nodes, they get a virtulization kernel and become managed
> by the management node... Simple bear metal scalable virtulization
> system
>
> And 110% Open Source  :-)
... only it doesn''t support Xen. Yet.
http://ovirt.org/page/FAQ

>
> [1] http://ovirt.org/
> [2] http://ovirt.org/screenshots.html
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Doesn''t Citrix Xenserver do bare metal? It''s now free.

http://www.citrix.com/English/ps2/products/feature.asp?contentID=1686939

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I''m not sure what the bottom line is on this thread then? 

Getting the sense that those involved in one way or another with commercial
software want to see regular xen users adopt while I see xen users agreeing that
things aren''t what they seem to be when the project isn''t
simply, fully, open source, free.

I think I probably missed or haven''t understood something but that
seems to be the outcome which leaves me unsure of what to base my decision on.

Just rambling from here, you don''t have to read past this point, in
fact, it''ll bore you and confuse you. I''m just thinking out
loud :).

I have been putting hardware together for a xen environment when a friend told
me I should upgrade my vmware 2.0 servers to ESX. He told me ESX was quite an
improvement from server. He was right, it''s incredibly cool. I was able
to bare metal install in minutes.
Once in the admin tool, I saw that ESX saw my fibre channel card and even
better, the FC storage. It took only a moment to set it up as a datastore. It
only took a second to also add the NFS paths so that I had access to my VM
guests.
Even cooler is that instantly, the two ESX servers I upgraded are instantly
using a shared storage filesystem (from what I understand) so that if I could do
fail over, etc. Boom it''s up, it''s running. I don''t
have to go hunting down, trying out a dozen different tools to find the things
that will work for me. So, all of this is cool, and it''s a darn fast
way of putting together a virtual network.

I wish I could find an ISO of xen that does exactly this (what ESX does) but
with open source, free xen. Then everyone could be taking advantage of the VERY
cool features that will eventually come to xen as well. More importantly, my
only concern, fear if you will at the stage would be that xen might end up
forked or something, big deal, that''s nothing compared to a commercial
entity suddenly changing it''s policies and I find myself locked out of
my software or with so few features that it''s no longer usable.

It makes me nervous when commercial entities start trying to go after the little
guys and guys like me who like keeping things all open source free. When I buy
commercial, I buy commercial but when I use free open source, I want to use free
open source that won''t bite me at some point. I don''t get that
feeling with vmware or citrix or anyone else who is usually going after big
business, suddenly going after me. Ya, I understand, I''m a potential
future market but my points remain.

PS: I''m not pointing fingers to anyone who posted in this thread, I
appreciate the feedback, the input, the leads, all of it. I''m simply
pointing out my overall concerns.

Anyways, just rambling.

Mike


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Hi,

Nice to have your point of view. Let me share mine.

lists@grounded.net wrote:
> I wish I could find an ISO of xen that does exactly this
> (what ESX does) but with open source, free xen.
I don''t think that Xen and ESX are for the same users or even usage,
simply because ESX aims at "point and click" (which sounds windows
like
to me) when the open source Xen is "just" a kernel. You would have to
search for other projects that are aiming at providing a graphical
interface for Xen.

If you can''t find such project (or if the products from Citrix wont
match your needs, or you don''t like them because they are open source)
then you are free to start a project yourself or fund one of the
existing one.

It''s just not right to criticize the open source Xen, saying that it
doesn''t offer the ease of the graphical interface you are using with
ESX, simply because that is absolutely not what the project does or
aims. Another project (existing or not as of writing) USING Xen should.
And you shouldn''t do the confusion.

That being said, I do agree that such nice app would be a good thing.
Did you try some of the existing projects like Enomalism or others?
> When I buy commercial, I buy commercial but when I use free open
> source, I want to use free open source that won''t bite me at some
> point. I don''t get that feeling with vmware or citrix or anyone
...
As I pointed out earlier, it''s just not right to say Xen == Citrix.
Just
as it''s not right either to say Linux == Linus Torvalds. Xen is owned
by
all the contributors. There is NOTHING Citrix can do to change this,
they can''t take away the license, it''s just not legal.

So why do you think that "free open source [will] bite [you] at some
point"? Just use the open source part, and reject anything commercial
that could be added on top, like many (including myself) are doing here.
If you can, contribute to existing projects to enhance them, and you
will be in the spirit.

Thomas

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Thomas,
	I think you misread Mike''s e-mail, to a large degree.  I say this
because I''m pretty sure no criticism of Xen was intended, and because
when
Mike used the word bite, I believe he was implying that open source
wouldn''t
bite, not that Xen didn''t fit into the category of open source that
wouldn''t
bite.  I can''t imagine a better place than a Xen mailing list to look
for a
project that makes open source Xen more of a bare metal system, and I think
that was also perhaps what Mike was trying to do with this entire thread,
and I believe his rambling confirms that.  Regardless, we''ll let him
respond
to you, just my two cents.

Mike,
	This isn''t exactly a bare metal install for open source Xen, and you
probably already saw it since you have been on the list for a while, but
there is apparently a Debian-based liveCD project that is mentioned in this
thread:
http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-users/2009-02/msg00605.html
	Dustin

-----Original Message-----
From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com
[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Goirand
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:23
To: xen-users
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Anything come close to esx for xen?


Hi,

Nice to have your point of view. Let me share mine.

lists@grounded.net wrote:
> I wish I could find an ISO of xen that does exactly this
> (what ESX does) but with open source, free xen.
I don''t think that Xen and ESX are for the same users or even usage,
simply because ESX aims at "point and click" (which sounds windows
like
to me) when the open source Xen is "just" a kernel. You would have to
search for other projects that are aiming at providing a graphical
interface for Xen.

If you can''t find such project (or if the products from Citrix wont
match your needs, or you don''t like them because they are open source)
then you are free to start a project yourself or fund one of the
existing one.

It''s just not right to criticize the open source Xen, saying that it
doesn''t offer the ease of the graphical interface you are using with
ESX, simply because that is absolutely not what the project does or
aims. Another project (existing or not as of writing) USING Xen should.
And you shouldn''t do the confusion.

That being said, I do agree that such nice app would be a good thing.
Did you try some of the existing projects like Enomalism or others?
> When I buy commercial, I buy commercial but when I use free open
> source, I want to use free open source that won''t bite me at some
> point. I don''t get that feeling with vmware or citrix or anyone
...
As I pointed out earlier, it''s just not right to say Xen == Citrix.
Just
as it''s not right either to say Linux == Linus Torvalds. Xen is owned
by
all the contributors. There is NOTHING Citrix can do to change this,
they can''t take away the license, it''s just not legal.

So why do you think that "free open source [will] bite [you] at some
point"? Just use the open source part, and reject anything commercial
that could be added on top, like many (including myself) are doing here.
If you can, contribute to existing projects to enhance them, and you
will be in the spirit.

Thomas

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http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users



_______________________________________________
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http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Thomas, you completely misunderstood my point. I am certainly not criticizing
xen in any way what so ever and if it sounded that way, it wasn''t
intended and is why I said I was just thinking out loud :).
> to me) when the open source Xen is "just" a kernel. You would
have to
> search for other projects that are aiming at providing a graphical
> interface for Xen.
Problem is, it''s not only the techs using these things. At some point,
once I set something up, I run out of time to maintain it all so need to hand it
off to someone. Not everyone is as technical as you''d like them to be
so there very much is a requirement to have simple, easy to understand, web
based tools for administration etc. Not so much pretty gui but web tools are
usually pretty easy compared to command line for non techs.
 
> It''s just not right to criticize the open source Xen, saying that
it
> doesn''t offer the ease of the graphical interface you are using
with
> ESX, simply because that is absolutely not what the project does or
> aims. Another project (existing or not as of writing) USING Xen should.
> And you shouldn''t do the confusion.
Again, I''m not criticizing, I was wishing :). I like using real open
source as much as possible because I want to have choices. I''ve been
around since the Internet started going public in a big way and have seen how
things have changed. It''s sad to see commercial beat down the energy of
development which has been the case since mid 90''s or so. I saw what
was an incredibly vibrant community, Internet developers, working on countless
projects and was part of that myself. Then I saw the telco''s slowly
gathering speed, stomping everyone and everything in it''s path in
it''s bid to become the ONLY provider to everyone. Remember Enron?

My point is simply that I very much want clear lines between commercial and non
commercial. I''m finding that it''s easy to get sucked into
something which says one thing then becomes another when the longer term goals
become obvious.
 
> That being said, I do agree that such nice app would be a good thing.
> Did you try some of the existing projects like Enomalism or others?
I''ve looked at all of the leads I''ve been given. My wife even
started a web site to help xen users to find xen related goodies. Problem is
time. It took minutes to install ESX and it''s ready to use. I would
prefer using xen but as it''s not a turn-key thing right now,
I''ll end up using ESX for some things, xen for others, which is what I
expected anyhow.
 
> As I pointed out earlier, it''s just not right to say Xen ==
Citrix. Just
> as it''s not right either to say Linux == Linus Torvalds. Xen is
owned by
> all the contributors. There is NOTHING Citrix can do to change this,
> they can''t take away the license, it''s just not legal.
Never said anything along those lines and if I did, it must be in how I typed it
because I agree.
 
> So why do you think that "free open source [will] bite [you] at some
> point"? Just use the open source part, and reject anything commercial
> that could be added on top, like many (including myself) are doing here.
> If you can, contribute to existing projects to enhance them, and you
> will be in the spirit.
I cannot contribute in the programming but my contribution has been the same
since the early 90''s. Use open source tools any time possible over
commercial so that in the long run, we ALL have options and choices. I would
hate to see a world of Microsoft only products which it has tried to do over and
over again.

As for why I feel it can bite me, as I said, over the years, I''ve seen
countless projects start out as ''free'', open source, and
eventually once they built up momentum, turn into fully commercial products.
That''s fine in some ways, but better would be companies that at least
tell you that they will always have an open source version with pretty much all
features over limited features. Take a look at RedHat, SugarCRM, Asterisk,
Trixbox, countless others like these guys, that''s what I''m
talking about. They absolutely have commercial sides to them but they have the
fully open, unlimited versions as well.

Hope the misunderstanding is no longer there.

Mike



_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

lists@grounded.net wrote:
> Problem is, it''s not only the techs using these things.
That is my point! I do think that only techs should use it DIRECTLY and
that other projects should give an interface to it.

In the UNIX "spirit", each individual program is specialized in an as
much limited role as possible, but it should do it well. In that way,
Xen is doing very well.
> Not so much pretty gui but web tools are usually pretty easy compared to
command line for non techs.
There are MANY available, as others pointed out.
> Again, I''m not criticizing, I was wishing :)
But even a WISH is not relevant, as I don''t think this is the ROLE of
Xen to have a GUI. This HAS to be in a separated project, as there are
many types of applications for it, which would require a totally
different GUI.

For example, the tools we wrote at GPLHost (dtc-xen and dtc), that are
integrated in Debian, are meant ONLY for doing commercial VPS hosting.
It''s doing ok for this purpose, or even to share a Xen server among few
domU users with privilege separations, but it''s really not adapted for
other usages. If you want to use a tool to just do the administration of
a Xen server for your own use, then maybe it''s best to use a GTK
interface rather than a website. You wont as well need the rights
delegations with login and password, etc.

The fact that the open source Xen does NOT include a GUI is to me a very
good thing, so there is nothing authoritative, and it leaves the door
open to many projects. Maybe it''s just a shame that there is not enough
integration efforts, and not enough of these projects, but nothing more.
> My point is simply that I very much want clear lines between commercial
> and non commercial.
I do as well, and I as well, am not happy with Citrix behavior. SUN
learned it the bad way with OpenOffice (remember the StarOffice
licensing?), maybe Citrix will as well, if they listen to all the critics.
> My wife even started a web site to help xen users to find xen
> related goodies.
URL?
> It took minutes to install ESX and it''s ready to use. I would
prefer
> using xen but as it''s not a turn-key thing right now,
I''ll end up using ESX for some things, xen for others, which is what I
expected anyhow.
>  
>>  As I pointed out earlier, it''s just not right to say Xen ==
Citrix. Just
>>  as it''s not right either to say Linux == Linus Torvalds. Xen
is owned by
>>  all the contributors. There is NOTHING Citrix can do to change this,
>>  they can''t take away the license, it''s just not
legal.
> 
> Never said anything along those lines and if I did, it must be in how I
typed it because I agree.
Well, I just wanted to highlight that if you want to ignore Citrix, this
IS possible, as Xen is in open source...
> As for why I feel it can bite me, as I said, over the years, I''ve
> seen countless projects start out as ''free'', open source,
and
> eventually once they built up momentum, turn into fully commercial
> products. That''s fine in some ways, but better would be companies
> that at least tell you that they will always have an open source
> version with pretty much all features over limited features.
They can''t take away what has been released in open source. Fork is the
way to go.
> Take
> a look at RedHat, SugarCRM, Asterisk, Trixbox, countless others
> like these guys, that''s what I''m talking about.
There are alternatives for all of them. There''s CentOS instead of
RedHat
(I still thing the RPM system is *bad* and that everyone should use
*plain* Debian (and not it''s ugly derivative Ubuntu)), Callweaver
instead of Asterisk (I highly recommend this one). The issue here is
that no one is aware of it, when in fact everybody should be switching
to the fork, to get rid of the evil. This can be changed spreading the
information, writing to each others like I''m doing right now.

http://www.callweaver.org/blog

The issue with Digium is different by the way. The issue is that they
are not accepting patches the way they should (like the clock issue or
something that binds to using Digium hardware...). I have never heard
about such thing with Xen, and if it happens one day, you can be sure it
will be forked very soon, as there are too many people and companies
involved.

As for Trixbox, it''s "just" asterisk + freepbx + other
goodies (I hope
I''m not mistaking here), and it''s so obvious this is insulting
open
source developers of the former projects. It''s so harmful that they are
still using the non-free jpgraph in FreePBX, otherwise it would already
be in Debian and other distros...
> They absolutely
> have commercial sides to them but they have the fully open,
> unlimited versions as well.
> 
> Hope the misunderstanding is no longer there.
Me too, as it seems you also didn''t get what I meant! :)

Thomas


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

>> Problem is, it''s not only the techs using these things.
>> 
> That is my point! I do think that only techs should use it DIRECTLY and
> that other projects should give an interface to it.
Who argued that? I agree, that means options, choices, all good. 
 
> In the UNIX "spirit", each individual program is specialized in
an as
> much limited role as possible, but it should do it well. In that way,
> Xen is doing very well.
Having an interface that less tech oriented people can use is far from that
spirit. In fact, have you peeked at Ubuntu lately, or any other Linux OS that is
starting to challenge Microsoft as a desktop solution? It''s all because
it is GUI. Xen having a gui would far from change anything but make it all that
much more acceptable and useful. Not such a bad idea.
 
> But even a WISH is not relevant, as I don''t think this is the ROLE
of
> Xen to have a GUI. This HAS to be in a separated project, as there are
> many types of applications for it, which would require a totally
> different GUI.
I don''t agree. I think it can be anything to anyone, just depends on
whom ever wants to make it available. If someone or a group of people wanted to
sit down and come up with a ready to go ISO, I think that would have tremendous
value in the adoption of xen as a viable solution. The problem with open source
IS the fact that it''s too technical and quite often, not usable by the
masses. You''re basically saying ''let''s just keep it
for us'' the gods of command line.

Bah, time to change. I''ve been that guy for many years but find I
simply cannot do it all anymore, never have been able to. I used to surround
myself with other tech''s but that''s simply not the answer. The
better answer is better tools to manage things otherwise, it''s a closed
minded project.
> The fact that the open source Xen does NOT include a GUI is to me a very
> good thing, so there is nothing authoritative, and it leaves the door
> open to many projects. Maybe it''s just a shame that there is not
enough
> integration efforts, and not enough of these projects, but nothing more.
Even if it came with a GUI, people would STILL have the choice to use their own
but it would simplify it for the masses who might otherwise be interested in
using xen.
 
> URL?
www.unrealmachines.com, just a basic site, to see if there might be interest.
Unfortunately, not one person has submitted a project so it''ll probably
die. Unless of course, she or others care to advertise it on their own sites so
that it does actually can the community.
 
> There are alternatives for all of them. There''s CentOS instead of
RedHat
> (I still thing the RPM system is *bad* and that everyone should use
But again, that''s your choice, feeling, what ever. Plenty of people
have started adopting Linux because it has become easier to deal with updates,
upgrades etc, yum rpm, all of these tools are meant to be helpful, they might
not be the choice for everyone but they are there and many come already
installed.
> instead of Asterisk (I highly recommend this one). The issue here is
> that no one is aware of it, when in fact everybody should be switching
> to the fork, to get rid of the evil. This can be changed spreading the
> information, writing to each others like I''m doing right now.
Hey, so long as we''re not arguing about one thing or another, my
contribution remains the same. Make it easy enough for non tech people to use
and I''ll sure as heck keep finding ways of putting Linux in the
corporate environment over Microsoft every day that I can. I can''t
count how many people I''ve moved from MS to Linux and it always feels
great.

After all, isn''t that really the bottom line.
 
Mike


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

>This isn''t exactly a bare metal install for open source Xen, and
you
>probably already saw it since you have been on the list for a while, but
>there is apparently a Debian-based liveCD project that is mentioned in this
>thread:
>http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-users/2009-02/msg00605.html
I might have seen it but didn''t remember it at this time. Thanks for
the lead, this looks pretty interesting also. Downloading it right now to take a
look. Deadly slow download though, only getting 77KB/s on average hehe.

My point was simply that I think xen would be adopted more if it had a
bare-metal install option with gui and all. Doesn''t mean that xen needs
to change in any way but that some folks might consider pulling what ever tools
might be required to make this happen. This looks like that sort of idea.

Mike



_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

I am sure that a graphical interface to the Xen open source is close, in
some sense, because who uses Debian, can see it. Can you check the Xen Live
CD ( http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/LiveCD ) that I made? Is a Debian 5.0
with Xen, the new kernel, Xorg, Gnome, virt-manager, ConVirt and some other
tools. I am still configuring the two programs (ConVirt and virt-manager) in
Debian, but the system is cool, I''m sure that any non-Technical can use
the
system. Also I have added some examples ready to use.

It would be great someone help me in the configuration of the ConVirt, I
really want to see it running in Xen Live CD, if we do, who will say that
open source Xen is difficult to use?

-
Thiago

2009/2/24 Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr>
> lists@grounded.net wrote:
> > Problem is, it''s not only the techs using these things.
>
> That is my point! I do think that only techs should use it DIRECTLY and
> that other projects should give an interface to it.
>
> In the UNIX "spirit", each individual program is specialized in
an as
> much limited role as possible, but it should do it well. In that way,
> Xen is doing very well.
>
> > Not so much pretty gui but web tools are usually pretty easy compared
to
> command line for non techs.
>
> There are MANY available, as others pointed out.
>
> > Again, I''m not criticizing, I was wishing :)
>
> But even a WISH is not relevant, as I don''t think this is the ROLE
of
> Xen to have a GUI. This HAS to be in a separated project, as there are
> many types of applications for it, which would require a totally
> different GUI.
>
> For example, the tools we wrote at GPLHost (dtc-xen and dtc), that are
> integrated in Debian, are meant ONLY for doing commercial VPS hosting.
> It''s doing ok for this purpose, or even to share a Xen server
among few
> domU users with privilege separations, but it''s really not adapted
for
> other usages. If you want to use a tool to just do the administration of
> a Xen server for your own use, then maybe it''s best to use a GTK
> interface rather than a website. You wont as well need the rights
> delegations with login and password, etc.
>
> The fact that the open source Xen does NOT include a GUI is to me a very
> good thing, so there is nothing authoritative, and it leaves the door
> open to many projects. Maybe it''s just a shame that there is not
enough
> integration efforts, and not enough of these projects, but nothing more.
>
> > My point is simply that I very much want clear lines between
commercial
> > and non commercial.
>
> I do as well, and I as well, am not happy with Citrix behavior. SUN
> learned it the bad way with OpenOffice (remember the StarOffice
> licensing?), maybe Citrix will as well, if they listen to all the critics.
>
> > My wife even started a web site to help xen users to find xen
> > related goodies.
>
> URL?
>
> > It took minutes to install ESX and it''s ready to use. I would
prefer
> > using xen but as it''s not a turn-key thing right now,
I''ll end up using
> ESX for some things, xen for others, which is what I expected anyhow.
> >
> >>  As I pointed out earlier, it''s just not right to say Xen
== Citrix.
> Just
> >>  as it''s not right either to say Linux == Linus Torvalds.
Xen is owned
> by
> >>  all the contributors. There is NOTHING Citrix can do to change
this,
> >>  they can''t take away the license, it''s just not
legal.
> >
> > Never said anything along those lines and if I did, it must be in how
I
> typed it because I agree.
>
> Well, I just wanted to highlight that if you want to ignore Citrix, this
> IS possible, as Xen is in open source...
>
> > As for why I feel it can bite me, as I said, over the years,
I''ve
> > seen countless projects start out as ''free'', open
source, and
> > eventually once they built up momentum, turn into fully commercial
> > products. That''s fine in some ways, but better would be
companies
> > that at least tell you that they will always have an open source
> > version with pretty much all features over limited features.
>
> They can''t take away what has been released in open source. Fork
is the
> way to go.
>
> > Take
> > a look at RedHat, SugarCRM, Asterisk, Trixbox, countless others
> > like these guys, that''s what I''m talking about.
>
> There are alternatives for all of them. There''s CentOS instead of
RedHat
> (I still thing the RPM system is *bad* and that everyone should use
> *plain* Debian (and not it''s ugly derivative Ubuntu)), Callweaver
> instead of Asterisk (I highly recommend this one). The issue here is
> that no one is aware of it, when in fact everybody should be switching
> to the fork, to get rid of the evil. This can be changed spreading the
> information, writing to each others like I''m doing right now.
>
> http://www.callweaver.org/blog
>
> The issue with Digium is different by the way. The issue is that they
> are not accepting patches the way they should (like the clock issue or
> something that binds to using Digium hardware...). I have never heard
> about such thing with Xen, and if it happens one day, you can be sure it
> will be forked very soon, as there are too many people and companies
> involved.
>
> As for Trixbox, it''s "just" asterisk + freepbx + other
goodies (I hope
> I''m not mistaking here), and it''s so obvious this is
insulting open
> source developers of the former projects. It''s so harmful that
they are
> still using the non-free jpgraph in FreePBX, otherwise it would already
> be in Debian and other distros...
>
> > They absolutely
> > have commercial sides to them but they have the fully open,
> > unlimited versions as well.
> >
> > Hope the misunderstanding is no longer there.
>
> Me too, as it seems you also didn''t get what I meant! :)
>
> Thomas
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>

_______________________________________________
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Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

> Can you check the Xen Live
> CD ( http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/LiveCD ) that I made? Is a Debian
I''m downloading it now. It''s at
http://livexen01.worldweb.com.br/release-0.8.2/, correct?

I would be happy to host the CD on the www.unrealmachines.com site if
you''d care to update it when it needs it.
Once you create your listing, I could allow the file to be hosted locally so
that users can download it from here. This way, you''d have a faster
mirror for downloads as well.
> It would be great someone help me in the configuration of the ConVirt, I
> really want to see it running in Xen Live CD, if we do, who will say that
> open source Xen is difficult to use?
That''s THE SPIRIT!


_______________________________________________
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Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Sorry for the low bandwidth!   ^_^
Soon it will be available on a better place...

-
Thiago

2009/2/24 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>
> > This isn''t exactly a bare metal install for open source Xen,
and you
> > probably already saw it since you have been on the list for a while,
but
> > there is apparently a Debian-based liveCD project that is mentioned in
> this
> > thread:
> >
http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-users/2009-02/msg00605.html
>
> I might have seen it but didn''t remember it at this time. Thanks
for the
> lead, this looks pretty interesting also. Downloading it right now to take
a
> look. Deadly slow download though, only getting 77KB/s on average hehe.
>
> My point was simply that I think xen would be adopted more if it had a
> bare-metal install option with gui and all. Doesn''t mean that xen
needs to
> change in any way but that some folks might consider pulling what ever
tools
> might be required to make this happen. This looks like that sort of idea.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>

_______________________________________________
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Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Take me up on being a mirror. Last week, one person said he got 6MB/s
downloading a 1.7GB file from me.
Until it''s being downloaded like wildfire, I can offer it a home. 

Mike


On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:47:19 -0300, Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro
wrote:
> Sorry for the low bandwidth!   ^_^
> 
> Soon it will be available on a better place...
> 
> -
> Thiago
> 
> 2009/2/24 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>
>>> This isn''t exactly a bare metal install for open source
Xen, and you
>>> probably already saw it since you have been on the list for a
while, but
>>> there is apparently a Debian-based liveCD project that is mentioned
in
>>> this
>>> thread:
>>> http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-users/2009-02/msg00605.html
>>> 
>> 
>> I might have seen it but didn''t remember it at this time.
Thanks for the
>> lead, this looks pretty interesting also. Downloading it right now to
>> take a look. Deadly slow download though, only getting 77KB/s on
average
>> hehe.
>> 
>> My point was simply that I think xen would be adopted more if it had a
>> bare-metal install option with gui and all. Doesn''t mean that
xen needs
>> to change in any way but that some folks might consider pulling what
ever
>> tools might be required to make this happen. This looks like that sort
of
>> idea.
>> 
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


_______________________________________________
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I will announce the Xen Live CD on the OpenQRM list!
You can choice between the web interface or graphical environment!

2009/2/24 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>
> > Can you check the Xen Live
> > CD ( http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/LiveCD ) that I made? Is a
Debian
>
> I''m downloading it now. It''s at
> http://livexen01.worldweb.com.br/release-0.8.2/, correct?
>
> I would be happy to host the CD on the www.unrealmachines.com site if
> you''d care to update it when it needs it.
> Once you create your listing, I could allow the file to be hosted locally
> so that users can download it from here. This way, you''d have a
faster
> mirror for downloads as well.
>
> > It would be great someone help me in the configuration of the ConVirt,
I
> > really want to see it running in Xen Live CD, if we do, who will say
that
> > open source Xen is difficult to use?
>
> That''s THE SPIRIT!
:-D

>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

lists@grounded.net wrote:
> Xen having a gui would far from change anything but make it all that
> much more acceptable and useful. Not such a bad idea.
You don''t get my point. I''m saying such GUI should NOT be a
part of Xen,
but in a separate project. I do agree that such a GUI would be very good.
> I think it can be anything to anyone, just depends on whom ever wants
> to make it available. If someone or a group of people wanted to sit
> down and come up with a ready to go ISO, I think that would have
> tremendous value in the adoption of xen as a viable solution.
Yes sure, but this should not be PART of Xen, it should just USE Xen,
and I don''t think that mixing the 2 in a single project with a single
name would be a bad thing.
> The problem with open source IS the fact that it''s too technical
> and quite often, not usable by the masses.
What we call "open source" is a form of licensing, NOT about this or
that kind of software.
> You''re basically saying ''let''s just keep it for
us'' the gods of command line.
I''m not saying that AT ALL. Please reread. Also, did you realize that
my
full time job is driven around writing a GUI for Xen, and more generally
web hosting interfaces? FYI, I''m the main author of these 2:

http://www.gplhost.com/software-dtc.html
http://www.gplhost.com/software-dtc-xen.html

I didn''t want to advertise so much here, because I don''t think
it''s the
place, but I can''t find a better proof... It''s been now 8
years I''m
writing this web hosting control panel.

So now please DO realize that I do understand how important GUIs are to
anyone, and not only because it make things more easy (there are other
arguments for using them, like automations and integration of different
tools/application/server/whatever in a single interface).
>>  The fact that the open source Xen does NOT include a GUI is to me a
very
>>  good thing, so there is nothing authoritative, and it leaves the door
>>  open to many projects. Maybe it''s just a shame that there is
not enough
>>  integration efforts, and not enough of these projects, but nothing
more.
> 
> Even if it came with a GUI, people would STILL have the choice to use
> their own but it would simplify it for the masses who might otherwise
> be interested in using xen.
To me it would be a very bad thing, because people would think as Xen =this
particular GUI, and thus it would kill other projects activity, or
people''s interest in search for the best alternative. The large public
would do the mistake between the engine (the hypervisor) and the tool
(the GUI). That would be quite a disaster.

Thomas

_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

unrealmachines.com is really great!

I''ll publish Xen Live CD there soon as possible! I just want the
release-0.8.3 finished before to do that...

2009/2/24 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>
> > Can you check the Xen Live
> > CD ( http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/LiveCD ) that I made? Is a
Debian
>
> I''m downloading it now. It''s at
> http://livexen01.worldweb.com.br/release-0.8.2/, correct?
>
> I would be happy to host the CD on the www.unrealmachines.com site if
> you''d care to update it when it needs it.
> Once you create your listing, I could allow the file to be hosted locally
> so that users can download it from here. This way, you''d have a
faster
> mirror for downloads as well.
>
> > It would be great someone help me in the configuration of the ConVirt,
I
> > really want to see it running in Xen Live CD, if we do, who will say
that
> > open source Xen is difficult to use?
>
> That''s THE SPIRIT!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>

_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

> unrealmachines.com is really great!
Glad you like it! Let people know about it when you get the chance. 
 
> I''ll publish Xen Live CD there soon as possible! I just want the
release-
> 0.8.3 finished before to do that...
You can publish it any time, then update the listing any time too.
We''ll work with people to make sure it does what it should with input.

Mike


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

> You don''t get my point. I''m saying such GUI should NOT be
a part of Xen,
> but in a separate project. I do agree that such a GUI would be very good.
Really, this is becoming a debate and I''m not interested in that.
I''ve made my points, you''ve made yours, what else is there to
say? I didn''t miss any point, I got it, I agreed, to some of it and not
to other things. My post was to talk about my own frustrations and what I
figured would help xen, in my opinion, that''s it. It''s not up
for debate, it''s simply what I believe would make a difference.

You want to keep things old school, fine, do that, keep it cli if you want but I
still strongly feel that xen would be better pushed along if it was bundled up
as a useful, turn key system that rivals the commercial players.

Mike




_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

> -----Original Message-----
> From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-users-
> bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of lists@grounded.net
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 3:39 PM
> To: xen-users
> Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Anything come close to esx for xen?
> 
> > You don''t get my point. I''m saying such GUI should
NOT be a part of
> Xen,
> > but in a separate project. I do agree that such a GUI would be very
> good.
> 
> Really, this is becoming a debate and I''m not interested in that.
I''ve
> made my points, you''ve made yours, what else is there to say? I
didn''t
> miss any point, I got it, I agreed, to some of it and not to other
> things. My post was to talk about my own frustrations and what I
> figured would help xen, in my opinion, that''s it. It''s
not up for
> debate, it''s simply what I believe would make a difference.
> 
> You want to keep things old school, fine, do that, keep it cli if you
> want but I still strongly feel that xen would be better pushed along if
> it was bundled up as a useful, turn key system that rivals the
> commercial players.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Although I agree with Mike''s point that it would be marketable as a
rival to the commercial players, but that''s what Xen Enterprise is for.
Open source xen is for people that like to open something up and play with the
guts.. well atleast that is what I think it is for. Adding a GUI that works
flawlessly should be a challenge otherwise we won''t learn anything and
won''t aid in the further development (and hard work) of those people
who have tried to do just that.

Not trying to spark a bigger debate, just adding my two cents.

Tait



_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

It''s quite new and no one has signed up to it yet so haven''t
worked out any bugs :).
Sent you a private note so we don''t fill the list. I''m sure
it''s something small, more than happy to work it out. See private
email.

Mike



On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:49:41 -0300, Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro
wrote:
> The web site unrealmachines.com does not send me any mail!
> 
> I can''t login there... Know you any problem with it?
> 
> Thanks,
> Thiago
> 
> 2009/2/24 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>
>>> unrealmachines.com is really great!
>>> 
>> 
>> Glad you like it! Let people know about it when you get the chance.
>> 
>>> I''ll publish Xen Live CD there soon as possible! I just
want the
>>> release-
>>> 0.8.3 finished before to do that...
>>> 
>> 
>> You can publish it any time, then update the listing any time too.
We''ll
>> work with people to make sure it does what it should with input.
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

lists@grounded.net wrote:
> You want to keep things old school, [...] keep it cli
I wont continue to talk about this topic again because it seems Mike and
he doesn''t want people to reply to his posts, but I still want to say
that NO, this is not what I think.

Thomas

_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Not at all, it''s just that we''ve started talking other open
source projects and I''m not sure that''s a good idea on a xen
related list. Obviously, when I ask for thoughts, I do want all opinions
otherwise, I can''t make an informed decision.

Anyhow, I just smell that we''re going down a slippery slope but more
than happy to continue chatting privately if you wish.

Mike


On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:45:43 +0800, Thomas Goirand
wrote:
> lists@grounded.net wrote:
> 
>> You want to keep things old school, [...] keep it cli
>> 
> I wont continue to talk about this topic again because it seems Mike and
> he doesn''t want people to reply to his posts, but I still want to
say
> that NO, this is not what I think.
> 
> Thomas
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

I think there are a couple of parts to this and that saying "keeping things
old school" is over-simplifying the situation.  Yes, Xen needs to keep a
CLI in the product.  CLI isn''t just old school - there are plenty of
people still using CLI, and they aren''t just the people who have been
working on computers for 30 or 40 years.  CLIs offer flexibility,
they''re easier to automate, they help when trying to debug problems. 
There are many, many advantages to having a CLI.  However, if the argument is
that we should keep things to CLI only, I don''t think that''s
what anyone is saying.
 
I can also see the benefits of having an easy-to-use GUI interface for Xen - a
"turn-key" solution, if you like.  VMware definitely has an advantage
in that you install their product (ESX or ESXi), configure a few things like
your network interfaces and datastores (both relatively simple tasks in
ESX/ESXi), and start creating VMs.  ESX manages to maintain a decent amount of
flexibility, especially when it comes to defining networks.  However, there are
areas where VMware lacks flexibility, especially areas like storage management,
hardware support, etc.
 
There''s also a disagreement over how to offer/implement that sort of
solution.  People like Mike (users vs. developers) don''t really care
how the solution is offered or implemented, they just want a disc that you can
pop into a drive, run through a fairly automated install process and come out
with a working Xen host on the other end.  That''s a great goal - it
makes Xen easier to use for people who either don''t have the time or
expertise to fiddle with all of the intricacies of getting Xen and Linux running
from scratch.  However, there are others who want to make sure that the
"turn-key" solution is implemented properly - these are the people who
are arguing that the Xen package itself should not include the GUI.  Xen is the
hypervisor, the GUI ought to be a separate package that interacts with the
hypervisor, not something that gets bundled up into the hypervisor.  (As a side
note, ESX/ESXi is built in a very similar fashion - there''s the
VMKernel, which is the actual hypervisor, and there are a couple of dozen
packages added to give the web functionality, volume management, clustering,
client interface, etc.  However, to Mike''s point, he doesn''t
have to know all this - he just throws the disc in the drive and it works.  Of
course, you can only manage it from Windows...)
 
Anyway, that''s just my two bits on the matter - I don''t think
that what people on both sides of the issue are saying is incompatible or
unattainable, it just isn''t ready right now.  Too bad...
 
-Nick
>>> Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr> 2009/02/24 23:45
>>>
lists@grounded.net wrote:
> You want to keep things old school, [...] keep it cli
I wont continue to talk about this topic again because it seems Mike and
he doesn''t want people to reply to his posts, but I still want to say
that NO, this is not what I think.

Thomas




This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of
the intended recipient.  If this email is not intended for you, or you are not
responsible for the delivery of this message to the intended recipient, please
note that this message may contain SEAKR Engineering (SEAKR)
Privileged/Proprietary Information.  In such a case, you are strictly prohibited
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_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Not to argue, but to point out something else that might be getting
overlooked, when I installed Fedora 8, I had the option to choose
Virtualization packages including Xen and virt-manager, which manages Xen
(among other virtualization options) and includes a GUI.  There is certainly
room for improvement and functionality in virt-manager, and there is the
obvious caveat that each distro that has such a system might have its own
GUI system in this type of install from CD.  However, an alternative that is
any more turnkey than that, and as such, closer to XenServer Enterprise (and
perhaps esx) is for someone to start a project where they generate their own
linux from scratch which is made specifically for running xen, and in doing
so, all that person is really doing is creating yet another distro with yet
another set of tools.  However, such a project would probably be welcome by
users and could potentially include various tools that have been mentioned
in this thread.  Regardless, I would like to say that Nick''s post
reflects
my opinions pretty well regarding this entire thread, and I''m not so
sure
that they aren''t the same opinions shared by various others who may
seem to
be arguing.
	Dustin

From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com
[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Nick Couchman
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 10:54
To: Thomas Goirand; lists@grounded.net
Cc: xen-users
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Anything come close to esx for xen?

I think there are a couple of parts to this and that saying "keeping things
old school" is over-simplifying the situation.  Yes, Xen needs to keep a
CLI
in the product.  CLI isn''t just old school - there are plenty of people
still using CLI, and they aren''t just the people who have been working
on
computers for 30 or 40 years.  CLIs offer flexibility, they''re easier
to
automate, they help when trying to debug problems.  There are many, many
advantages to having a CLI.  However, if the argument is that we should keep
things to CLI only, I don''t think that''s what anyone is
saying.
 
I can also see the benefits of having an easy-to-use GUI interface for Xen -
a "turn-key" solution, if you like.  VMware definitely has an
advantage in
that you install their product (ESX or ESXi), configure a few things like
your network interfaces and datastores (both relatively simple tasks in
ESX/ESXi), and start creating VMs.  ESX manages to maintain a decent amount
of flexibility, especially when it comes to defining networks.  However,
there are areas where VMware lacks flexibility, especially areas like
storage management, hardware support, etc.
 
There''s also a disagreement over how to offer/implement that sort of
solution.  People like Mike (users vs. developers) don''t really care
how the
solution is offered or implemented, they just want a disc that you can pop
into a drive, run through a fairly automated install process and come out
with a working Xen host on the other end.  That''s a great goal - it
makes
Xen easier to use for people who either don''t have the time or
expertise to
fiddle with all of the intricacies of getting Xen and Linux running from
scratch.  However, there are others who want to make sure that the
"turn-key" solution is implemented properly - these are the people who
are
arguing that the Xen package itself should not include the GUI.  Xen is the
hypervisor, the GUI ought to be a separate package that interacts with the
hypervisor, not something that gets bundled up into the hypervisor.  (As a
side note, ESX/ESXi is built in a very similar fashion - there''s the
VMKernel, which is the actual hypervisor, and there are a couple of dozen
packages added to give the web functionality, volume management, clustering,
client interface, etc.  However, to Mike''s point, he doesn''t
have to know
all this - he just throws the disc in the drive and it works.  Of course,
you can only manage it from Windows...)
 
Anyway, that''s just my two bits on the matter - I don''t think
that what
people on both sides of the issue are saying is incompatible or
unattainable, it just isn''t ready right now.  Too bad...
 
-Nick
>>> Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr> 2009/02/24 23:45
>>>
lists@grounded.net wrote:
> You want to keep things old school, [...] keep it cli
I wont continue to talk about this topic again because it seems Mike and
he doesn''t want people to reply to his posts, but I still want to say
that NO, this is not what I think.

Thomas

________________________________________
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use of the intended recipient. If this email is not intended for you, or you
are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the intended
recipient, please note that this message may contain SEAKR Engineering
(SEAKR) Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you are strictly
prohibited from downloading, photocopying, distributing or otherwise using
this message, its contents or attachments in any way. If you have received
this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this
e-mail and delete the message from your mailbox. Information contained in
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endorsed by nor attributable to SEAKR. 



_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 SP2 is very similar - it has an option to
install Xen and there are management pieces in YaST, the primary administration
tool in SuSE, for creating and managing virtual machines.  It also uses
virt-manager and a couple other packages.
 
I guess the thing that these sorts of installations lack is the quick and easy
configuration for networking and cluster-ready storage.  It took me a little
work to get VLAN-based networking set up for Xen (not all that hard once you
know what to do), and setting up Heartbeat, EVMS, and OCFS2 takes a little work,
too (as does CLVM + GFS on RH-based systems).  In this regard, ESX/ESXi is a bit
more "turn-key" than even the Linux distros that include Xen with GUI
management support.
 
-Nick
>>> "Dustin Henning" <Dustin.Henning@prd-inc.com>
2009/02/25 10:25 >>>
Not to argue, but to point out something else that might be getting
overlooked, when I installed Fedora 8, I had the option to choose
Virtualization packages including Xen and virt-manager, which manages Xen
(among other virtualization options) and includes a GUI.  There is certainly
room for improvement and functionality in virt-manager, and there is the
obvious caveat that each distro that has such a system might have its own
GUI system in this type of install from CD.  However, an alternative that is
any more turnkey than that, and as such, closer to XenServer Enterprise (and
perhaps esx) is for someone to start a project where they generate their own
linux from scratch which is made specifically for running xen, and in doing
so, all that person is really doing is creating yet another distro with yet
another set of tools.  However, such a project would probably be welcome by
users and could potentially include various tools that have been mentioned
in this thread.  Regardless, I would like to say that Nick''s post
reflects
my opinions pretty well regarding this entire thread, and I''m not so
sure
that they aren''t the same opinions shared by various others who may
seem to
be arguing.
Dustin

From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com 
[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Nick Couchman
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 10:54
To: Thomas Goirand; lists@grounded.net 
Cc: xen-users
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Anything come close to esx for xen?

I think there are a couple of parts to this and that saying "keeping things
old school" is over-simplifying the situation.  Yes, Xen needs to keep a
CLI
in the product.  CLI isn''t just old school - there are plenty of people
still using CLI, and they aren''t just the people who have been working
on
computers for 30 or 40 years.  CLIs offer flexibility, they''re easier
to
automate, they help when trying to debug problems.  There are many, many
advantages to having a CLI.  However, if the argument is that we should keep
things to CLI only, I don''t think that''s what anyone is
saying.

I can also see the benefits of having an easy-to-use GUI interface for Xen -
a "turn-key" solution, if you like.  VMware definitely has an
advantage in
that you install their product (ESX or ESXi), configure a few things like
your network interfaces and datastores (both relatively simple tasks in
ESX/ESXi), and start creating VMs.  ESX manages to maintain a decent amount
of flexibility, especially when it comes to defining networks.  However,
there are areas where VMware lacks flexibility, especially areas like
storage management, hardware support, etc.

There''s also a disagreement over how to offer/implement that sort of
solution.  People like Mike (users vs. developers) don''t really care
how the
solution is offered or implemented, they just want a disc that you can pop
into a drive, run through a fairly automated install process and come out
with a working Xen host on the other end.  That''s a great goal - it
makes
Xen easier to use for people who either don''t have the time or
expertise to
fiddle with all of the intricacies of getting Xen and Linux running from
scratch.  However, there are others who want to make sure that the
"turn-key" solution is implemented properly - these are the people who
are
arguing that the Xen package itself should not include the GUI.  Xen is the
hypervisor, the GUI ought to be a separate package that interacts with the
hypervisor, not something that gets bundled up into the hypervisor.  (As a
side note, ESX/ESXi is built in a very similar fashion - there''s the
VMKernel, which is the actual hypervisor, and there are a couple of dozen
packages added to give the web functionality, volume management, clustering,
client interface, etc.  However, to Mike''s point, he doesn''t
have to know
all this - he just throws the disc in the drive and it works.  Of course,
you can only manage it from Windows...)

Anyway, that''s just my two bits on the matter - I don''t think
that what
people on both sides of the issue are saying is incompatible or
unattainable, it just isn''t ready right now.  Too bad...

-Nick
>>> Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr> 2009/02/24 23:45
>>>
lists@grounded.net wrote:
> You want to keep things old school, [...] keep it cli
I wont continue to talk about this topic again because it seems Mike and
he doesn''t want people to reply to his posts, but I still want to say
that NO, this is not what I think.

Thomas

________________________________________
This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole
use of the intended recipient. If this email is not intended for you, or you
are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the intended
recipient, please note that this message may contain SEAKR Engineering
(SEAKR) Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you are strictly
prohibited from downloading, photocopying, distributing or otherwise using
this message, its contents or attachments in any way. If you have received
this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this
e-mail and delete the message from your mailbox. Information contained in
this message that does not relate to the business of SEAKR is neither
endorsed by nor attributable to SEAKR. 




This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of
the intended recipient.  If this email is not intended for you, or you are not
responsible for the delivery of this message to the intended recipient, please
note that this message may contain SEAKR Engineering (SEAKR)
Privileged/Proprietary Information.  In such a case, you are strictly prohibited
from downloading, photocopying, distributing or otherwise using this message,
its contents or attachments in any way.  If you have received this message in
error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail and delete the
message from your mailbox.  Information contained in this message that does not
relate to the business of SEAKR is neither endorsed by nor attributable to
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_______________________________________________
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Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Actually, the thread got a bit convoluted but the idea remains the same. 

I''m not sure how the thread got to having sides but as I recall, I said
I ''wished'' there was such a beast out there and that gui tools
are good to have for non tech users.

Personally, I''ve been installing xen from command line and my point was
that xen could become that much more popular for another level of user if there
were turn key solutions. Turn key meaning ISO''s, such as many projects
out there offer.

What''s cool about all of it is that it doesn''t matter either
way, everyone gets what they want. Those who love cli can always use cli or as I
called it, old school, which I certainly didn''t mean anything by since
it''s my main way too :).

As we''ve now seen, Thiago is working on a full ISO install which will
be very useful to those who aren''t as strong in command line as others.

Choices, that''s all I really meant. Nothing wrong with countless
versions of something if it finds a home.

Mike




On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:25:24 -0500, Dustin Henning
wrote:
> Not to argue, but to point out something else that might be getting
> 
> overlooked, when I installed Fedora 8, I had the option to choose
> Virtualization packages including Xen and virt-manager, which manages Xen
> (among other virtualization options) and includes a GUI.  There is
certainly
> room for improvement and functionality in virt-manager, and there is the
> obvious caveat that each distro that has such a system might have its own
> GUI system in this type of install from CD.  However, an alternative that
is
> any more turnkey than that, and as such, closer to XenServer Enterprise
(and
> perhaps esx) is for someone to start a project where they generate their
own
> linux from scratch which is made specifically for running xen, and in doing
> so, all that person is really doing is creating yet another distro with yet
> another set of tools.  However, such a project would probably be welcome by
> users and could potentially include various tools that have been mentioned
> in this thread.  Regardless, I would like to say that Nick''s post
reflects
> my opinions pretty well regarding this entire thread, and I''m not
so sure
> that they aren''t the same opinions shared by various others who
may seem to
> be arguing.
> Dustin
> 
> From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com
> [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Nick Couchman
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 10:54
> To: Thomas Goirand; lists@grounded.net
> Cc: xen-users
> Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Anything come close to esx for xen?
> 
> I think there are a couple of parts to this and that saying "keeping
things
> old school" is over-simplifying the situation.  Yes, Xen needs to keep
a CLI
> in the product.  CLI isn''t just old school - there are plenty of
people
> still using CLI, and they aren''t just the people who have been
working on
> computers for 30 or 40 years.  CLIs offer flexibility, they''re
easier to
> automate, they help when trying to debug problems.  There are many, many
> advantages to having a CLI.  However, if the argument is that we should
keep
> things to CLI only, I don''t think that''s what anyone is
saying.
> 
> I can also see the benefits of having an easy-to-use GUI interface for Xen
-
> a "turn-key" solution, if you like.  VMware definitely has an
advantage in
> that you install their product (ESX or ESXi), configure a few things like
> your network interfaces and datastores (both relatively simple tasks in
> ESX/ESXi), and start creating VMs.  ESX manages to maintain a decent amount
> of flexibility, especially when it comes to defining networks.  However,
> there are areas where VMware lacks flexibility, especially areas like
> storage management, hardware support, etc.
> 
> There''s also a disagreement over how to offer/implement that sort
of
> solution.  People like Mike (users vs. developers) don''t really
care how the
> solution is offered or implemented, they just want a disc that you can pop
> into a drive, run through a fairly automated install process and come out
> with a working Xen host on the other end.  That''s a great goal -
it makes
> Xen easier to use for people who either don''t have the time or
expertise to
> fiddle with all of the intricacies of getting Xen and Linux running from
> scratch.  However, there are others who want to make sure that the
> "turn-key" solution is implemented properly - these are the
people who are
> arguing that the Xen package itself should not include the GUI.  Xen is the
> hypervisor, the GUI ought to be a separate package that interacts with the
> hypervisor, not something that gets bundled up into the hypervisor.  (As a
> side note, ESX/ESXi is built in a very similar fashion - there''s
the
> VMKernel, which is the actual hypervisor, and there are a couple of dozen
> packages added to give the web functionality, volume management,
clustering,
> client interface, etc.  However, to Mike''s point, he
doesn''t have to know
> all this - he just throws the disc in the drive and it works.  Of course,
> you can only manage it from Windows...)
> 
> Anyway, that''s just my two bits on the matter - I don''t
think that what
> people on both sides of the issue are saying is incompatible or
> unattainable, it just isn''t ready right now.  Too bad...
> 
> -Nick
> 
>>>> Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr> 2009/02/24 23:45
>>>
> lists@grounded.net wrote:
>> You want to keep things old school, [...] keep it cli
>> 
> I wont continue to talk about this topic again because it seems Mike and
> he doesn''t want people to reply to his posts, but I still want to
say
> that NO, this is not what I think.
> 
> Thomas
> 
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Another good post, good points and the spirit is intact. Everyone wants to have
a bit of input, so that we all end up with choices and not a one solution world
like Microsoft would have. Truly, that''s the bottom line. While
I''m not a programmer, I''ve spent a great deal of energy since
the early 90''s to tell everyone I possibly can that Linux IS a viable
and in many cases, better solution than the big commercial players.
It''s not always about cost, it''s about making sure that we
have choices. Sometimes, it''s best to go with a commercial solution.
> a "turn-key" solution, if you like.VMware definitely has an
advantage in
>that you install their product (ESX or ESXi), configure a few things like
>your network interfaces and datastores (both relatively simple tasks in
>ESX/ESXi), and start creating VMs.ESX manages to maintain a decent amount
And this is why I posted that ''wish'' of mine. I found ESX so
darn easy to install, set up, etc, that I wished Xen would have some this far by
now for those who will never consider it because it''s not as simple as
ESX. I hate seeing people go to proprietary solutions if I can persuade them to
give something else a try.

No issues, just a wish :).

Mike


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Many good links were provided in the thread, I wonder about one more. Is there a
php based xen management tool out there? Often, something as simple as a php
tool can make all the difference in the world. I''ve moved people from
MS SQL because I was able to give them phpMyAdmin for example.

Mike


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Maybe, OpenQRm, Eucalyptus, Enomalism, DTC-Xen ??! But how is better?

2009/2/25 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>
> Many good links were provided in the thread, I wonder about one more. Is
> there a php based xen management tool out there? Often, something as simple
> as a php tool can make all the difference in the world. I''ve moved
people
> from MS SQL because I was able to give them phpMyAdmin for example.
>
> Mike
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>

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And Nimbus!   ;-)

2009/2/25 Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro <thiagocmartinsc@gmail.com>
> Maybe, OpenQRm, Eucalyptus, Enomalism, DTC-Xen ??! But how is better?
>
> 2009/2/25 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>
>
> Many good links were provided in the thread, I wonder about one more. Is
>> there a php based xen management tool out there? Often, something as
simple
>> as a php tool can make all the difference in the world. I''ve
moved people
>> from MS SQL because I was able to give them phpMyAdmin for example.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>
>
>

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I''m pretty sure I also came across a commerical webmin module for xen
management. Just wondered if there were others. I''ve seen some of the
one''s you''ve mentioned here, I don''t recall any of
these being straight forward php based management. I think some require a server
side portion as well.

Mike


On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:44:57 -0300, Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro
wrote:
> Maybe, OpenQRm, Eucalyptus, Enomalism, DTC-Xen ??! But how is better?
> 
> 2009/2/25 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>
>> Many good links were provided in the thread, I wonder about one more.
Is
>> there a php based xen management tool out there? Often, something as
>> simple as a php tool can make all the difference in the world.
I''ve moved
>> people from MS SQL because I was able to give them phpMyAdmin for
example.
>> 
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


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Here''s a whole collection I came across while looking up nimbus.
http://www.gridvm.org/xen-remote-management-interfaces.html

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:51:47 -0300, Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro
wrote:
> And Nimbus!   -)
> 
> 2009/2/25 Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro <thiagocmartinsc@gmail.com>
>> Maybe, OpenQRm, Eucalyptus, Enomalism, DTC-Xen ??! But how is better?
>> 
>> 2009/2/25 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>
>> 
>>> Many good links were provided in the thread, I wonder about one
more.
>>> Is there a php based xen management tool out there? Often,
something as
>>> simple as a php tool can make all the difference in the world.
I''ve
>>> moved people from MS SQL because I was able to give them phpMyAdmin
for
>>> example.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


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Hey, it''s remote resources from what I''m reading. Pretty
nifty.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:51:47 -0300, Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro
wrote:
> And Nimbus!   -)
> 
> 2009/2/25 Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro <thiagocmartinsc@gmail.com>
>> Maybe, OpenQRm, Eucalyptus, Enomalism, DTC-Xen ??! But how is better?
>> 
>> 2009/2/25 lists@grounded.net <lists@grounded.net>
>> 
>>> Many good links were provided in the thread, I wonder about one
more.
>>> Is there a php based xen management tool out there? Often,
something as
>>> simple as a php tool can make all the difference in the world.
I''ve
>>> moved people from MS SQL because I was able to give them phpMyAdmin
for
>>> example.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


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Nick Couchman wrote:
> Anyway, that''s just my two bits on the matter - I don''t
think that what
> people on both sides of the issue are saying is incompatible or
> unattainable, it just isn''t ready right now.  Too bad...
>  
> -Nick
Nick,

What you said is exactly what I think, said better. I''m not so good in
expressing myself sometimes...

Thomas

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