Hi all,
I have few questions, so if some1 could answer them i would be very
thankful...
I wanna use xen for following purpose:
I''m planning to buy shiny new box and i wanna run a linux (xen?) kernel
and
i want to run window$ 3D applications accelerated (with working directx)...
All of this without reboot...
1) What i need to run windows XP in xen with _accelerated_ 3D? IOMMU, or
something more than that? 2 graphics cards? And which processors does
support IOMMU and what graphics card is the best for this?
2) Is the best solution work normally on xen kernel (kde desktop, compiz,
etc....) and have window$ the only 1 guest, or 1xen kernel, and 2guests - 1
linux for working and 1 window$ for gaming? And how do i switch between all
the VMs? Or better way is to have 1st VM running on 1st display and 2nd VM
on 2nd display? How?
Sorry for such noob questions but i cannot google anything new about this...
Best regards
Gryffus aka Lukas Krejza
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
If any1 will have simillar problem, here is some info from AMD: Dear Lukas, Thank you for contacting AMD Tech Support IOMMU is partially implemented into our latest quad-core Opteron processors but using 3D modes under guest OS is not an option at this moment. Thanks & regards Artem, AMD ETSC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gryffus" <gryffus@hkfree.org> To: <xen-users@lists.xensource.com> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 2:15 AM Subject: [Xen-users] Windows guest accelerated 3d?> Hi all, > > I have few questions, so if some1 could answer them i would be very > thankful... > > I wanna use xen for following purpose: > I''m planning to buy shiny new box and i wanna run a linux (xen?) kernel > and i want to run window$ 3D applications accelerated (with working > directx)... All of this without reboot... > > 1) What i need to run windows XP in xen with _accelerated_ 3D? IOMMU, or > something more than that? 2 graphics cards? And which processors does > support IOMMU and what graphics card is the best for this? > > > 2) Is the best solution work normally on xen kernel (kde desktop, compiz, > etc....) and have window$ the only 1 guest, or 1xen kernel, and 2guests - > 1 linux for working and 1 window$ for gaming? And how do i switch between > all the VMs? Or better way is to have 1st VM running on 1st display and > 2nd VM on 2nd display? How? > > > Sorry for such noob questions but i cannot google anything new about > this... > > Best regards > Gryffus aka Lukas Krejza > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Hi there Gryffus,> I have few questions, so if some1 could answer them i would be very > thankful... > > I wanna use xen for following purpose: > I''m planning to buy shiny new box and i wanna run a linux (xen?) kernel and > i want to run window$ 3D applications accelerated (with working directx)... > All of this without reboot... > > 1) What i need to run windows XP in xen with _accelerated_ 3D? IOMMU, or > something more than that? 2 graphics cards? And which processors does > support IOMMU and what graphics card is the best for this?At the moment you can''t get 3D accelerated graphics with only one graphics card... Code supporting IOMMU has recently been added to xen-unstable so it''s possible that you could pass through a PCI device to a Windows guest. In practice, I suspect that graphics cards haven''t been tested, so passing them through may not work. It is very new support, anyhow. I don''t know of any companies who''d support 3D accelerated virtual machines for you just yet :-( I expect that will change in a year or two, though. FYI, getting 3D graphics drivers to load under Xen can be a pain even for dom0. For that reason, you might find another VMM is more convenient to use. Still, people have managed to get versions of the Nvidia and ATI drivers working in the past... That doesn''t solve the problem of accelerating Windows, though.> 2) Is the best solution work normally on xen kernel (kde desktop, compiz, > etc....) and have window$ the only 1 guest, or 1xen kernel, and 2guests - 1 > linux for working and 1 window$ for gaming? And how do i switch between all > the VMs? Or better way is to have 1st VM running on 1st display and 2nd VM > on 2nd display? How?Typically you have VNC connections to each guest in order to access the virtual screen. Because Xen is server-oriented, most people don''t do a lot of interacting with the display device (which is currently a little slow). For Unixy guests, you can also just use something like X-forwarding. Because it''s just VNC, the virtual machine displays appear in Windows. If you''re going to use the machine as a desktop, it makes sense to interact with dom0 directly for normal work. I don''t think you''ll be doing much gaming with Windows if you have to use the emulated graphics though :-( Something you might find cool is VMGL - a project (still a bit experimental, I think) to give 3D acceleration to X11 (Linux, FreeBSD) virtual machines. It''s actually independent of Xen and can work with VMware. http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andreslc/xen-gl/ Sorry I couldn''t give you more positive news about Windows gaming under Xen. In consolation, I guess I''d note that if you''re running really demanding 3D games you mightn''t want the CPU overhead / network of running under virtualisation. Cheers, Mark -- Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no pedals! Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard? Dave: Skateboards have wheels. Mark: My wheel has a wheel! _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
In the past, I was able to run 3D in Dom0 with NVIDIA ( I can''t compile it on current > 2.6.21 dom0 kernels though), and use 3D functions in a linux DomU through XDMCP (though indirect rendering). I installed nvidia libraries both in Dom0 and DomU. Using XDMCP login, DomU showed all possible opengl extensions, just direct rendering was off (due to IP based communication). However, I was able to run compiz successfully in DomU, but milage may vary.. Emre On Dec 4, 2007 5:14 AM, Mark Williamson <mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:> Hi there Gryffus, > > > I have few questions, so if some1 could answer them i would be very > > thankful... > > > > I wanna use xen for following purpose: > > I''m planning to buy shiny new box and i wanna run a linux (xen?) kernel > and > > i want to run window$ 3D applications accelerated (with working > directx)... > > All of this without reboot... > > > > 1) What i need to run windows XP in xen with _accelerated_ 3D? IOMMU, or > > something more than that? 2 graphics cards? And which processors does > > support IOMMU and what graphics card is the best for this? > > At the moment you can''t get 3D accelerated graphics with only one graphics > card... > > Code supporting IOMMU has recently been added to xen-unstable so it''s > possible > that you could pass through a PCI device to a Windows guest. In practice, > I > suspect that graphics cards haven''t been tested, so passing them through > may > not work. It is very new support, anyhow. > > I don''t know of any companies who''d support 3D accelerated virtual > machines > for you just yet :-( I expect that will change in a year or two, though. > > FYI, getting 3D graphics drivers to load under Xen can be a pain even for > dom0. For that reason, you might find another VMM is more convenient to > use. > Still, people have managed to get versions of the Nvidia and ATI drivers > working in the past... That doesn''t solve the problem of accelerating > Windows, though. > > > 2) Is the best solution work normally on xen kernel (kde desktop, > compiz, > > etc....) and have window$ the only 1 guest, or 1xen kernel, and 2guests > - 1 > > linux for working and 1 window$ for gaming? And how do i switch between > all > > the VMs? Or better way is to have 1st VM running on 1st display and 2nd > VM > > on 2nd display? How? > > Typically you have VNC connections to each guest in order to access the > virtual screen. Because Xen is server-oriented, most people don''t do a > lot > of interacting with the display device (which is currently a little slow). > For Unixy guests, you can also just use something like X-forwarding. > > Because it''s just VNC, the virtual machine displays appear in Windows. > > If you''re going to use the machine as a desktop, it makes sense to > interact > with dom0 directly for normal work. I don''t think you''ll be doing much > gaming with Windows if you have to use the emulated graphics though :-( > > Something you might find cool is VMGL - a project (still a bit > experimental, I > think) to give 3D acceleration to X11 (Linux, FreeBSD) virtual machines. > It''s actually independent of Xen and can work with VMware. > http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andreslc/xen-gl/<http://www.cs.toronto.edu/%7Eandreslc/xen-gl/> > > > Sorry I couldn''t give you more positive news about Windows gaming under > Xen. > In consolation, I guess I''d note that if you''re running really demanding > 3D > games you mightn''t want the CPU overhead / network of running under > virtualisation. > > Cheers, > Mark > > -- > Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no pedals! > Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard? > Dave: Skateboards have wheels. > Mark: My wheel has a wheel! > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >-- Emre Erenoglu erenoglu@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Thank you for making it a little clearer...
So if i understand it clearly, the best solution would be 2 graphics cards?
I have 1 integrated GPU and 1 i PCI-E slot...
Would this work? I think, to have 1 GPU dedicated to domU and 1 to dom0? And
even for windoze? And how?
VMGL is unfortunately only for opengl, but most windows games uses
directx... I think wine has some translation layer between DX and opengl,
but i dont think that it will be merged with VMGL, or that VMGL will have
something simillar... Do u think in future, there will be some similar layer
in Xen, something like virtual 3D card for guest? Or xen 3D will suppot will
go IOMMU path? If there will be working IOMMU kernel & chipset & CPU,
will
the 3D acceleration work through vnc?
It is still best wine for playing games, or qemu, vmware or another VM is
also developing 3D acceleration in full virtualised guest? I heard that
vmware have something working, but it only supports DX8.1 and it is very
buggy...
Is here anyone that has more information about 3D in other VMs? I just
thought that Xen is the fastest solution for virtualization...
Thank you for answering at least some of my many questions. Many thanky
Best regards
Gryffus
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Williamson" <mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk>
To: <xen-users@lists.xensource.com>
Cc: "Gryffus" <gryffus@hkfree.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Windows guest accelerated 3d?
> Hi there Gryffus,
>
>> I have few questions, so if some1 could answer them i would be very
>> thankful...
>>
>> I wanna use xen for following purpose:
>> I''m planning to buy shiny new box and i wanna run a linux
(xen?) kernel
>> and
>> i want to run window$ 3D applications accelerated (with working
>> directx)...
>> All of this without reboot...
>>
>> 1) What i need to run windows XP in xen with _accelerated_ 3D? IOMMU,
or
>> something more than that? 2 graphics cards? And which processors does
>> support IOMMU and what graphics card is the best for this?
>
> At the moment you can''t get 3D accelerated graphics with only one
graphics
> card...
>
> Code supporting IOMMU has recently been added to xen-unstable so
it''s
> possible
> that you could pass through a PCI device to a Windows guest. In practice,
> I
> suspect that graphics cards haven''t been tested, so passing them
through
> may
> not work. It is very new support, anyhow.
>
> I don''t know of any companies who''d support 3D
accelerated virtual
> machines
> for you just yet :-( I expect that will change in a year or two, though.
>
> FYI, getting 3D graphics drivers to load under Xen can be a pain even for
> dom0. For that reason, you might find another VMM is more convenient to
> use.
> Still, people have managed to get versions of the Nvidia and ATI drivers
> working in the past... That doesn''t solve the problem of
accelerating
> Windows, though.
>
>> 2) Is the best solution work normally on xen kernel (kde desktop,
compiz,
>> etc....) and have window$ the only 1 guest, or 1xen kernel, and 2guests
-
>> 1
>> linux for working and 1 window$ for gaming? And how do i switch between
>> all
>> the VMs? Or better way is to have 1st VM running on 1st display and 2nd
>> VM
>> on 2nd display? How?
>
> Typically you have VNC connections to each guest in order to access the
> virtual screen. Because Xen is server-oriented, most people don''t
do a
> lot
> of interacting with the display device (which is currently a little slow).
> For Unixy guests, you can also just use something like X-forwarding.
>
> Because it''s just VNC, the virtual machine displays appear in
Windows.
>
> If you''re going to use the machine as a desktop, it makes sense to
> interact
> with dom0 directly for normal work. I don''t think you''ll
be doing much
> gaming with Windows if you have to use the emulated graphics though :-(
>
> Something you might find cool is VMGL - a project (still a bit
> experimental, I
> think) to give 3D acceleration to X11 (Linux, FreeBSD) virtual machines.
> It''s actually independent of Xen and can work with VMware.
> http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andreslc/xen-gl/
>
>
> Sorry I couldn''t give you more positive news about Windows gaming
under
> Xen.
> In consolation, I guess I''d note that if you''re running
really demanding
> 3D
> games you mightn''t want the CPU overhead / network of running
under
> virtualisation.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
> --
> Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no pedals!
> Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard?
> Dave: Skateboards have wheels.
> Mark: My wheel has a wheel!
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
I''ve also been trying to get hardware-accelerate Direct3D to work in a (Windows) DomU. Here''s where I''m at: - I have a machine with a VT-D IOMMU (Dell Optiplex 755). - I''m using various Xen builds from xen-unstable. - I''ve verified that (for certain builds) Xen''s VT-D support is working for me. I used a NIC PCI device (for a couple of reasons) as a test of VT-D/Xen, and it works...I can see the actual NIC in Windows 2003 DomU''s Device Manager (not an emulated NIC nor a PV driver), and it interacts with the network fine. Furthermore I can RDP into the Windows DomU (which is important because I want to pass the graphics card through to the DomU) - The next step was to try passing the PCI Express graphics card (an ATI) through to the Windows DomU. - My machine also has an integrated GPU, but the BIOS won''t let me boot with it as the primary display device... - In order to save my graphics card for my Windows DomU, I tell various components (grub, Xen kernel, Linux kernel) to use the serial port instead of the graphics card. I also pciback.hide the PCI Express graphics card from Dom0 (just as I hid the PCI NIC). When booting up Xen/Dom0 the all I see on the monitor is the BIOS spash screen, "Grub Loading Stage2...", and after that just a black screen with a blinking cursor in the upper-left corner. Everything else starting with the Grub selection screen is through the serial port. - I start up my Windows DomU. For now the intent is to RDP into it and see if Windows sees the graphics card I passed through to it or not. (As stated above, this works fine if I don''t try to pass through the graphics card) But, after may 20 seconds (about the time it takes the Windows DomU to fully boot up normally), my physical machine hangs. The last thing is just an open-parenthesis on the serial console (where I have Xen directing it''s output)...I presume it is the beginning of a message from Xen that is related to the hang, because I don''t see any such message normally. I''m going to post some questions to xen-devel about this...I''m not sure if passing PCI Express devices through to DomU via VT-D is even supported... _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users