Xen users - Sep 2007 - Re: HVM domU Solaris 10 (Marc Patino G?mez)

Because AMD h/w virtualization support virtualizes guest real mode, but
Intel VT-x doesn''t. Therefore Xen has to rely on software
instruction emulation for guest real mode. The Xen code
for that emulation is incomplete and somewhat wrong. We''ve fixed it in
some
patches we apply to the hypervisor version that will come with OpenSolaris.
However, the patches have not been pushed back into the upstream
code base yet. Until that happens, if you''re interested in using
S10 in an HVM domain, use AMD processors.

Joe

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:01:58 +0200
From: Marc Patino G?mez <mpatino@es.clara.net>
Subject: [Xen-users] HVM domU Solaris 10
To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com
Message-ID: <46F3DCE6.4080006@es.clara.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi,

Anybody knows why a Solaris 10 HVM domU hangs when kernel is booting on
my Intel CPU box. I had no problem installing Solaris 10 on an AMD CPU Box.

Any advices?

Many thanks,

Marc

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Hi Joe,

many thanks for your answer.

Regards,

Marc

Joe Bonasera wrote:
>
> Because AMD h/w virtualization support virtualizes guest real mode, but
> Intel VT-x doesn''t. Therefore Xen has to rely on software
> instruction emulation for guest real mode. The Xen code
> for that emulation is incomplete and somewhat wrong. We''ve fixed
it in
> some
> patches we apply to the hypervisor version that will come with 
> OpenSolaris.
> However, the patches have not been pushed back into the upstream
> code base yet. Until that happens, if you''re interested in using
> S10 in an HVM domain, use AMD processors.
>
> Joe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:01:58 +0200
> From: Marc Patino G?mez <mpatino@es.clara.net>
> Subject: [Xen-users] HVM domU Solaris 10
> To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> Message-ID: <46F3DCE6.4080006@es.clara.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi,
>
> Anybody knows why a Solaris 10 HVM domU hangs when kernel is booting on
> my Intel CPU box. I had no problem installing Solaris 10 on an AMD CPU 
> Box.
>
> Any advices?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Marc
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

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Hi again Joe,

so.. in your opinion AMD processors are better to make h/w 
virtualization? I am planing to buy a "big server" (4 ways) to host 
multiple Windows domU and of course I want the most convenient CPUs for it.

Thanks in advance,

Marc

Joe Bonasera wrote:
>
> Because AMD h/w virtualization support virtualizes guest real mode, but
> Intel VT-x doesn''t. Therefore Xen has to rely on software
> instruction emulation for guest real mode. The Xen code
> for that emulation is incomplete and somewhat wrong. We''ve fixed
it in
> some
> patches we apply to the hypervisor version that will come with 
> OpenSolaris.
> However, the patches have not been pushed back into the upstream
> code base yet. Until that happens, if you''re interested in using
> S10 in an HVM domain, use AMD processors.
>
> Joe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:01:58 +0200
> From: Marc Patino G?mez <mpatino@es.clara.net>
> Subject: [Xen-users] HVM domU Solaris 10
> To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> Message-ID: <46F3DCE6.4080006@es.clara.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi,
>
> Anybody knows why a Solaris 10 HVM domU hangs when kernel is booting on
> my Intel CPU box. I had no problem installing Solaris 10 on an AMD CPU 
> Box.
>
> Any advices?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Marc
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

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I was just about to install a domU S10 on an Intel 6600, with Centos-5 
Dom0. So, basically, this is impossible? Is there a PV S10?

Thanks -

Evan

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Hi list,

i''ve been wondering the same thing as Marc Patino above,
i have been building Intel boxes up until now, especially with the multicore
Intels being quite cheap.
can anyone confirm that a new large box, meant to run paravirt and hvm, AMD
would be the better choice ?
i think real mode HVM would be very interesting to have.
does anyone know where to find more info on this ?

Thanks,
Sven

On 9/21/07, Marc Patino Gómez <mpatino@es.clara.net>
wrote:
>
> Hi again Joe,
>
> so.. in your opinion AMD processors are better to make h/w
> virtualization? I am planing to buy a "big server" (4 ways) to
host
> multiple Windows domU and of course I want the most convenient CPUs for
> it.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Marc
>
> Joe Bonasera wrote:
> >
> > Because AMD h/w virtualization support virtualizes guest real mode,
but
> > Intel VT-x doesn''t. Therefore Xen has to rely on software
> > instruction emulation for guest real mode. The Xen code
> > for that emulation is incomplete and somewhat wrong. We''ve
fixed it in
> > some
> > patches we apply to the hypervisor version that will come with
> > OpenSolaris.
> > However, the patches have not been pushed back into the upstream
> > code base yet. Until that happens, if you''re interested in
using
> > S10 in an HVM domain, use AMD processors.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:01:58 +0200
> > From: Marc Patino G?mez <mpatino@es.clara.net>
> > Subject: [Xen-users] HVM domU Solaris 10
> > To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> > Message-ID: <46F3DCE6.4080006@es.clara.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Anybody knows why a Solaris 10 HVM domU hangs when kernel is booting
on
> > my Intel CPU box. I had no problem installing Solaris 10 on an AMD CPU
> > Box.
> >
> > Any advices?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Xen-users mailing list
> > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>

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> i''ve been wondering the same thing as Marc Patino above,
> i have been building Intel boxes up until now, especially with the 
> multicore Intels being quite cheap.
> can anyone confirm that a new large box, meant to run paravirt and 
> hvm, AMD would be the better choice ?
> i think real mode HVM would be very interesting to have.
> does anyone know where to find more info on this ?
>
I can''t answer your question with empirical evidence, but I''m
just about
to  buy a large-ish AMD-based system due to what I''ve read on this list
and elsewhere for a couple years.  I''m going this way in part because I
feel that AMD has a more correct virtualization implementation, in the 
same way that they have a more correct quad-core implementation, and in 
part because their 2- and 4-socket quad-core chips are an incredible 
value relative to Intel''s chips 
(http://anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3091&p=2) - assuming 
top-performance isn''t your goal...  Besides, its fun to support the 
underdog  ;)

Best,
Kent

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All PC OSs start out in real mode after a reset/reboot, and switch over to 
protected mode, so Xen''s real mode implementation can''t be all
that bad. It
sounds like this is a problem with OpenSolaris, not Windows. The real test 
would be running Win98 command.com - the classic example of real mode 
switching. Anyone have trouble with that?

 On Sat September 22 2007 7:46:54 am sven waeyenbergh
wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> i''ve been wondering the same thing as Marc Patino above,
> i have been building Intel boxes up until now, especially with the
> multicore Intels being quite cheap.
> can anyone confirm that a new large box, meant to run paravirt and hvm, AMD
> would be the better choice ?
> i think real mode HVM would be very interesting to have.
> does anyone know where to find more info on this ?
>
> Thanks,
> Sven
>
> On 9/21/07, Marc Patino Gómez <mpatino@es.clara.net> wrote:
> > Hi again Joe,
> >
> > so.. in your opinion AMD processors are better to make h/w
> > virtualization? I am planing to buy a "big server" (4 ways)
to host
> > multiple Windows domU and of course I want the most convenient CPUs
for
> > it.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > Joe Bonasera wrote:
> > > Because AMD h/w virtualization support virtualizes guest real
mode, but
> > > Intel VT-x doesn''t. Therefore Xen has to rely on
software
> > > instruction emulation for guest real mode. The Xen code
> > > for that emulation is incomplete and somewhat wrong.
We''ve fixed it in
> > > some
> > > patches we apply to the hypervisor version that will come with
> > > OpenSolaris.
> > > However, the patches have not been pushed back into the upstream
> > > code base yet. Until that happens, if you''re interested
in using
> > > S10 in an HVM domain, use AMD processors.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 7
> > > Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:01:58 +0200
> > > From: Marc Patino G?mez <mpatino@es.clara.net>
> > > Subject: [Xen-users] HVM domU Solaris 10
> > > To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> > > Message-ID: <46F3DCE6.4080006@es.clara.net>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Anybody knows why a Solaris 10 HVM domU hangs when kernel is
booting on
> > > my Intel CPU box. I had no problem installing Solaris 10 on an
AMD CPU
> > > Box.
> > >
> > > Any advices?
> > >
> > > Many thanks,
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Xen-users mailing list
> > > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> > > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Xen-users mailing list
> > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


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thanks a lot for this info, i think i''m switching sides to AMD now :p
A quick glance trough the article seems to point to the Opteron 2347 as a
nice favorite,
but they do not seem to be available in Europe yet. i''ll wait a bit
more.

I see these also seem to have some iommu implemented, that could prove VERY
neat for a xen setup,
if the iommu will be supported by xen.

Thanks a lot,
Sven

On 9/22/07, Kent Watsen <kent@watsen.net> wrote:
>
>
> I can''t answer your question with empirical evidence, but
I''m just about
> to  buy a large-ish AMD-based system due to what I''ve read on this
list
> and elsewhere for a couple years.  I''m going this way in part
because I
> feel that AMD has a more correct virtualization implementation, in the
> same way that they have a more correct quad-core implementation, and in
> part because their 2- and 4-socket quad-core chips are an incredible
> value relative to Intel''s chips
> (http://anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3091&p=2) - assuming
> top-performance isn''t your goal...  Besides, its fun to support
the
> underdog  ;)
>
> Best,
> Kent
>

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Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

On Sat, Sep 22, 2007 at 09:59:56AM -0400, jim burns wrote:
> All PC OSs start out in real mode after a reset/reboot, and switch over to 
> protected mode, so Xen''s real mode implementation can''t
be all that bad.
It''s not. However, it''s only just enough to run Windows and
Linux
installers.
> It sounds like this is a problem with OpenSolaris, not Windows.
No. The real mode emulator just needs extending to cope with Solaris''s
real mode code, which differs slightly from what the tested OS''s use.

regards
john

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On Sat September 22 2007 4:09:20 pm John Levon wrote:
> > It sounds like this is a problem with OpenSolaris, not Windows.
>
> No. The real mode emulator just needs extending to cope with
Solaris''s
> real mode code, which differs slightly from what the tested OS''s
use.
Agreed. I wasn''t knocking SL10. I was reassuring the original posters
that
Windows HVMs work just fine on Intel VT boxes.

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