hello everybody, is it possible to run a paravirtualized linux (domU) that its graphic card is working directly with hardware? what about the peripherals? mouse,keyboard,usb? how can this be accomplished if domain0 does not hold of a graphic card driver? thanks, Abe. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> -----Original Message----- > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com > [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Abe > Sent: 15 March 2007 09:53 > To: xen-devel@lists.xensource.com; xen-users@lists.xensource.com > Subject: [Xen-users] graphic card on domU > > hello everybody,Please don''t cross-post unless you KNOW it''s meaningfull for both Xen devel and Xen users. This is not a Devel question.> > is it possible to run a paravirtualized linux (domU) that its > graphic card is working directly with hardware? what about > the peripherals? mouse,keyboard,usb? > how can this be accomplished if domain0 does not hold of a > graphic card driver?Dom0 almost certainly will grab the graphics card before you have any say about it. You could POSSIBLY get away with a second graphics card for DomU. USB mouse/keyboard can be given to DomU if they are on a separate USB controller so that you can pass the entire USB controller to DomU. -- Mats> > thanks, > Abe. >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 3/15/07, Petersson, Mats <Mats.Petersson@amd.com> wrote:> > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com > > [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Abe > > Sent: 15 March 2007 09:53 > > To: xen-devel@lists.xensource.com; xen-users@lists.xensource.com > > Subject: [Xen-users] graphic card on domU > > > > hello everybody, > > Please don''t cross-post unless you KNOW it''s meaningfull for both Xen > devel and Xen users. This is not a Devel question. >I wasn''t sure where to send my question. sorry.> > > > is it possible to run a paravirtualized linux (domU) that its > > graphic card is working directly with hardware? what about > > the peripherals? mouse,keyboard,usb? > > how can this be accomplished if domain0 does not hold of a > > graphic card driver? > > Dom0 almost certainly will grab the graphics card before you have any > say about it. > > You could POSSIBLY get away with a second graphics card for DomU. > > USB mouse/keyboard can be given to DomU if they are on a separate USB > controller so that you can pass the entire USB controller to DomU.I actually removed the graphic card driver from domain0... and I removed X as well what about the PS2? thanks!> > -- > Mats > > > > thanks, > > Abe. > > > > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> -----Original Message----- > From: Abe [mailto:lynchbay@gmail.com] > Sent: 15 March 2007 10:17 > To: Petersson, Mats > Cc: xen-users@lists.xensource.com > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] graphic card on domU > > On 3/15/07, Petersson, Mats <Mats.Petersson@amd.com> wrote: > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com > > > [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Abe > > > Sent: 15 March 2007 09:53 > > > To: xen-devel@lists.xensource.com; xen-users@lists.xensource.com > > > Subject: [Xen-users] graphic card on domU > > > > > > hello everybody, > > > > Please don''t cross-post unless you KNOW it''s meaningfull > for both Xen > > devel and Xen users. This is not a Devel question. > > > > I wasn''t sure where to send my question. > sorry. > > > > > > > is it possible to run a paravirtualized linux (domU) that its > > > graphic card is working directly with hardware? what about > > > the peripherals? mouse,keyboard,usb? > > > how can this be accomplished if domain0 does not hold of a > > > graphic card driver? > > > > Dom0 almost certainly will grab the graphics card before > you have any > > say about it. > > > > You could POSSIBLY get away with a second graphics card for DomU. > > > > USB mouse/keyboard can be given to DomU if they are on a > separate USB > > controller so that you can pass the entire USB controller to DomU. > > I actually removed the graphic card driver from domain0... and I > removed X as well > what about the PS2?The graphics driver -> the "drm" for X, right? There''s also the VGA/FB driver which grabs the graphics card VERY early on in the boot. And Xen itself likes to hold on to the VGA card for console messages. I''m not sure if you can actually get rid of those at all. -- Mats> > thanks! > > > > > -- > > Mats > > > > > > thanks, > > > Abe. > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 3/15/07, Petersson, Mats <Mats.Petersson@amd.com> wrote:> > > > I actually removed the graphic card driver from domain0... and I > > removed X as well > > what about the PS2? > > The graphics driver -> the "drm" for X, right? There''s also the VGA/FB > driver which grabs the graphics card VERY early on in the boot. And Xen > itself likes to hold on to the VGA card for console messages. I''m not > sure if you can actually get rid of those at all.so maybe it is a question for xen-devel after all :P what exactly do you mean by "drm"? I am not in concern for the *VGA* state, it can easily be reset. thanks, Abe _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> -----Original Message----- > From: Abe [mailto:lynchbay@gmail.com] > Sent: 15 March 2007 11:15 > To: Petersson, Mats > Cc: xen-users@lists.xensource.com > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] graphic card on domU > > On 3/15/07, Petersson, Mats <Mats.Petersson@amd.com> wrote: > > > > > > I actually removed the graphic card driver from domain0... and I > > > removed X as well > > > what about the PS2? > > > > The graphics driver -> the "drm" for X, right? There''s also > the VGA/FB > > driver which grabs the graphics card VERY early on in the > boot. And Xen > > itself likes to hold on to the VGA card for console > messages. I''m not > > sure if you can actually get rid of those at all. > > so maybe it is a question for xen-devel after all :PWhy?> what exactly do you mean by "drm"?"Direct Rendering Module" - the X-windows kernel modules to support differnet graphics cards using "DRI" (Direct Rendering Infrastructure".> I am not in concern for the *VGA* state, it can easily be reset.Yes, but if you''re working in graphics mode (X) and the Dom0 decides to write to the VGA controller, your graphics card may not "appreciate" it. Since there''s no direct communication between the DomU and Dom0 about what''s going on in the different "world", the context of the graphics card may be severely damaged by performing VGA writes to a graphics context (or the other way around). So you need Dom0 to "give up" it''s VGA ownership if you want DomU to access the graphics card. And that''s not going to be easy. The only (easy) solution is to have two graphics cards and giving the SECOND one to DomU. This is not the first time this question has been asked... -- Mats> > thanks, > Abe > > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 3/15/07, Petersson, Mats <Mats.Petersson@amd.com> wrote:> > what exactly do you mean by "drm"? > > "Direct Rendering Module" - the X-windows kernel modules to support > differnet graphics cards using "DRI" (Direct Rendering Infrastructure". > > > I am not in concern for the *VGA* state, it can easily be reset. > > Yes, but if you''re working in graphics mode (X) and the Dom0 decides to > write to the VGA controller, your graphics card may not "appreciate" it. > Since there''s no direct communication between the DomU and Dom0 about > what''s going on in the different "world", the context of the graphics > card may be severely damaged by performing VGA writes to a graphics > context (or the other way around). > > So you need Dom0 to "give up" it''s VGA ownership if you want DomU to > access the graphics card. And that''s not going to be easy. The only > (easy) solution is to have two graphics cards and giving the SECOND one > to DomU. >maybe in xen-devel they''ll know what to do in order to remove the VGA from domain0, for instance, blocking the graphic adapter at the hypervisor level. the FB can be removed using a compile flag or something and the console output could be redirected to a serial port... thanks, Abe> > -- > Mats > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Hi Abe, I''m not a developer. Nevertheless, as far as I know, using a graphic hardware with 3d functionalities etc. is not possible at the moment. PCI device hiding functionality of Xen 2.0 does not yet work for Xen 3.0, therefore you cannot reach the graphics hardware directly from a Xen DomU. To have X in DomUs, there may be several solutions: 1) HVM Guests: They already have a graphics card emulation. Low resolution, slow. 2) PV Guests: You can configure a FrameBuffer for the DomUs and use SDL or VNC to view it from Dom0. 3) For any type of guest, you can run another X server in your Dom0, and use this one over TCP/IP for your DomUs (i use XDMCP). It is not that slow. You can even watch movies. I didn''t yet try running Compiz Beryl etc. Best regards, Emre On 3/15/07, Abe <lynchbay@gmail.com> wrote:> > hello everybody, > > is it possible to run a paravirtualized linux (domU) that its graphic card > is working directly with hardware? what about the peripherals? > mouse,keyboard,usb? > how can this be accomplished if domain0 does not hold of a graphic card > driver? > thanks, > Abe. > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-devel mailing list > Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel > >-- Emre Erenoglu erenoglu@gmail.com emre.erenoglu@erenoglu.com _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
> Hi Abe, > > I''m not a developer. Nevertheless, as far as I know, using a graphic > hardware with 3d functionalities etc. is not possible at the moment. PCI > device hiding functionality of Xen 2.0 does not yet work for Xen 3.0, > therefore you cannot reach the graphics hardware directly from a Xen DomU.Actually the PCI device hiding does now work on Xen 3.0 so you could assign a graphics card to a domU. I think people may have done this successfully although I''m not sure how functional they managed to make the resulting system; X.org used to get a little unhappy and confused when run in a domU even with access to the graphics card. Maybe this is better now. Giving PCI devices to HVM isn''t possible (at least not until suitable IOMMU support is available - both a hardware and software problem).> 1) HVM Guests: They already have a graphics card emulation. Low resolution, > slow. > 2) PV Guests: You can configure a FrameBuffer for the DomUs and use SDL or > VNC to view it from Dom0. > 3) For any type of guest, you can run another X server in your Dom0, and > use this one over TCP/IP for your DomUs (i use XDMCP). It is not that slow. > You can even watch movies. I didn''t yet try running Compiz Beryl etc.I wouldn''t expect compiz / beryl to work well if forwarded from another machine (or even from a domU), although I''d be interested to discover if you *can*. Or SSH to the guest and use X protocol forwarding - works very well and integrates well with your dom0 desktop. Or use NX (NoMachine X) to forward a desktop with sound, storage and print services (if you can get it to work!). Cheers, Mark -- Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no pedals! Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard? Dave: Skateboards have wheels. Mark: My wheel has a wheel! _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
Hi, I don''t have a second PCI graphics card so I won''t be able to try it. But just a question, when we say PCI, is it also applicable for AGP (guess this is also PCI) and PCI-E? In my setup, I''m using pulseaudio for sound and samba for file sharing. NFS may also be used. How is performance when watching a movie over X forwaded by SSH? Emre On 3/16/07, Mark Williamson <mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:> > > Hi Abe, > > > > I''m not a developer. Nevertheless, as far as I know, using a graphic > > hardware with 3d functionalities etc. is not possible at the moment. PCI > > device hiding functionality of Xen 2.0 does not yet work for Xen 3.0, > > therefore you cannot reach the graphics hardware directly from a Xen > DomU. > > Actually the PCI device hiding does now work on Xen 3.0 so you could > assign a > graphics card to a domU. I think people may have done this successfully > although I''m not sure how functional they managed to make the resulting > system; X.org used to get a little unhappy and confused when run in a domU > even with access to the graphics card. Maybe this is better now. > > Giving PCI devices to HVM isn''t possible (at least not until suitable > IOMMU > support is available - both a hardware and software problem). > > > 1) HVM Guests: They already have a graphics card emulation. Low > resolution, > > slow. > > 2) PV Guests: You can configure a FrameBuffer for the DomUs and use SDL > or > > VNC to view it from Dom0. > > 3) For any type of guest, you can run another X server in your Dom0, and > > use this one over TCP/IP for your DomUs (i use XDMCP). It is not that > slow. > > You can even watch movies. I didn''t yet try running Compiz Beryl etc. > > I wouldn''t expect compiz / beryl to work well if forwarded from another > machine (or even from a domU), although I''d be interested to discover if > you > *can*. > > Or SSH to the guest and use X protocol forwarding - works very well and > integrates well with your dom0 desktop. Or use NX (NoMachine X) to > forward a > desktop with sound, storage and print services (if you can get it to > work!). > > Cheers, > Mark > > -- > Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no pedals! > Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard? > Dave: Skateboards have wheels. > Mark: My wheel has a wheel! >-- Emre Erenoglu erenoglu@gmail.com emre.erenoglu@erenoglu.com _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
> -----Original Message----- > From: xen-devel-bounces@lists.xensource.com > [mailto:xen-devel-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of > Emre Erenoglu > Sent: 16 March 2007 15:45 > To: Mark Williamson > Cc: xen-devel@lists.xensource.com; xen-users@lists.xensource.com > Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] graphic card on domU > > Hi, > > I don''t have a second PCI graphics card so I won''t be able to > try it. But just a question, when we say PCI, is it also > applicable for AGP (guess this is also PCI) and PCI-E?Yes, all "flavours" of PCI are software compatible: PCI, PCI-x, AGP(1,2,8x) and PCI-E. It''s just changes in hardware architecture (and some extended register sets for PCI-E, but if you don''t particuarly care about PCI-E performance counting, or some other rather special things, the software don''t need to know about those to function correctly). -- Mats _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel