-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I''m new to the list. Please forgive me if this has been discussed recently. I''m looking at buying a server for at home and I''m looking for advice on which cpu to base it on. I will want to put a lot of vm''s on this server, but the load will probably not be very high. Most of the VM''s will be linux, but I love to try out OS''s so I may try any OS that has an x86 port (including windows). The server I put together will probably be 1 socket, but have a dual core chip. I know both Intel and AMD offer virtualization instructions on their chips, but I can''t wade through the marketing fluff to figure out which one I want. I''m also very new to xen so I don''t really know what to look for. I''ve been looking at the Opteron and the Intel Core 2. From what I found the Xeon 7000 series is the conroe core. Is that right? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Cygwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFEWuk6xsamcQR838RAmpyAKDIp92uYyF1mE1KkDCsSwCzVpEO/gCgkNfu JrMbnZSApi9R9DY7Lr/fstA=98ye -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Wed, 2006-09-20 at 12:26 -0400, Tod Detre wrote:> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, I''m new to the list. Please forgive me if this has been discussed > recently. > > I''m looking at buying a server for at home and I''m looking for advice on > which cpu to base it on. I will want to put a lot of vm''s on this > server, but the load will probably not be very high. Most of the VM''s > will be linux, but I love to try out OS''s so I may try any OS that has > an x86 port (including windows). The server I put together will probably > be 1 socket, but have a dual core chip.I''m just starting to experiment with a T7200 dual core. As you research, make sure that the motherboard and BIOS also support virtualization. Lots of reports of disappointed folks where VT (or the AMD equivalent) has been disabled in one or the other, even with a VT CPU. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> Hi, I''m new to the list. Please forgive me if this has been discussed > recently. > > I''m looking at buying a server for at home and I''m looking > for advice on > which cpu to base it on. I will want to put a lot of vm''s on this > server, but the load will probably not be very high. Most of the VM''s > will be linux, but I love to try out OS''s so I may try any OS that has > an x86 port (including windows). The server I put together > will probably > be 1 socket, but have a dual core chip. > > I know both Intel and AMD offer virtualization instructions on their > chips, but I can''t wade through the marketing fluff to figure > out which > one I want. I''m also very new to xen so I don''t really know > what to look > for. > > I''ve been looking at the Opteron and the Intel Core 2. From > what I found > the Xeon 7000 series is the conroe core. Is that right?I don''t know anything about the Intel numbering and it''s relationship with the actual core that is being used. I would also say that the difference between the Intel and AMD implementations is very small - there''s no inherent advantage in one over the other - there are some minor differences in the actual way that certain functionality is implemented, but that is only something that bothers us that write code for either processor (or both in relevant cases). There is one or two notable differences: AMD has "paged-real-mode", which allows the processor to run real-mode code (such as what''s in GRUB or the OS installer for example) in a virtual machine. It''s not a big deal, there is emulation code in Xen to do this on Intel processors, and for most parts that emulation code works, and for the portions where it''s not working, there are people out there that are fixing things... So the conclusion is that from a virtual machine standpoint, there''s not a whole lot to differentiate the two. There are probably a whole range of benchmarks out there to prove that one or the other processor is faster than the other running one thing or another. It''s up to you which ones you look at, and who you listen to. Obviously, if you check my mail-address, you''d know which I think you should buy, but this is a public mailing-list, and I''m trying to give open, non-biased advice. ;-) -- Mats _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> -----Original Message----- > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com > [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of MJang > Sent: 20 September 2006 17:37 > To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] CPU reccomendation? > > On Wed, 2006-09-20 at 12:26 -0400, Tod Detre wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Hi, I''m new to the list. Please forgive me if this has been > discussed > > recently. > > > > I''m looking at buying a server for at home and I''m looking > for advice on > > which cpu to base it on. I will want to put a lot of vm''s on this > > server, but the load will probably not be very high. Most > of the VM''s > > will be linux, but I love to try out OS''s so I may try any > OS that has > > an x86 port (including windows). The server I put together > will probably > > be 1 socket, but have a dual core chip. > > I''m just starting to experiment with a T7200 dual core. As > you research, > make sure that the motherboard and BIOS also support virtualization. > Lots of reports of disappointed folks where VT (or the AMD equivalent) > has been disabled in one or the other, even with a VT CPU.Ah, yes, that''s one place where AMD and Intel are different. At the moment, there''s no way to disable the AMD-V technology in the processors that have this feature. So if you just get the processors that support AMD-V, there''s no way that it would not be available to you, and it''s relatively easy to determine which processors have this feature, as they are the ones in "the new socket" with DDR2 support - so as long as you get information from the supplier which socket the processor is for, you should be able to determine whether it has AMD-V or not. -- Mats _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 What should I be looking for? For example, one system I''m looking at doesn''t say anything about virtualization for the motherboard. Here is a link to the motherboard included in it. Is there something I''m missing on that page? http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/motherboard/Opteron/HT1000/H8SSL-i.cfm> I''m just starting to experiment with a T7200 dual core. As you research, > make sure that the motherboard and BIOS also support virtualization. > Lots of reports of disappointed folks where VT (or the AMD equivalent) > has been disabled in one or the other, even with a VT CPU.-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Cygwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFEXEg6xsamcQR838RAmdTAKDdmtzKzlc/x1O+RrGbX5lDTyrvfACfQGIB RJ5NpYtw5g9/E1aFO6JUP4s=Ywhf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> -----Original Message----- > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com > [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Tod Detre > Sent: 20 September 2006 17:50 > To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] CPU reccomendation? > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > What should I be looking for? For example, one system I''m looking at > doesn''t say anything about virtualization for the > motherboard. Here is a > link to the motherboard included in it. Is there something I''m missing > on that page? > > http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/motherboard/Opteron/HT1000/H8SSL-i.cfmThat is an old Socket 940 motherboard, so it wouldn''t take the Socket F processor that you need for the virtualization to work. You''d need a motherboard with either Socket F or Socket AM2 (or whatever the mobile socket is called). There probably won''t be any mention on the motherboard specs to say virtualization in the AMD case, as it''s really nothing to do with the motherboard - it''s all built into the processor. But you need the latest revision of processor, which has the latest memory controller supporting DDR2. So if the motherboard supports DDR2, it also supports the Virtualization enabled processor. -- Mats> > > > I''m just starting to experiment with a T7200 dual core. As > you research, > > make sure that the motherboard and BIOS also support virtualization. > > Lots of reports of disappointed folks where VT (or the AMD > equivalent) > > has been disabled in one or the other, even with a VT CPU. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Cygwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFFEXEg6xsamcQR838RAmdTAKDdmtzKzlc/x1O+RrGbX5lDTyrvfACfQGIB > RJ5NpYtw5g9/E1aFO6JUP4s> =Ywhf > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ugh, ok. And from what I''m finding, there aren''t that many barebones systems out there that support the Opteron on am2 or f socket yet. I''m going to have to do some more research to find what I want. So for the opteron, I just need to make sure that I get a 1000 or 2000 series processor. What about amd64 or Intel stuff. I''m on a budget so I don''t know if I can afford the newest opterons. - --Tod -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Cygwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFEXef6xsamcQR838RAsakAKDpNAFa5H9kccgNJIYSKBNSd1TkdQCg3S4f Z1lLc0LyqkWvUiwJdaoq0AU=ounQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> -----Original Message----- > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com > [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Tod Detre > Sent: 20 September 2006 18:17 > To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] CPU reccomendation? > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Ugh, ok. And from what I''m finding, there aren''t that many barebones > systems out there that support the Opteron on am2 or f socket yet. I''m > going to have to do some more research to find what I want. > > So for the opteron, I just need to make sure that I get a 1000 or 2000 > series processor. What about amd64 or Intel stuff. I''m on a > budget so I > don''t know if I can afford the newest opterons.Correct, you need the "four digit" models of Opterons. If you want a budget system, you can get an AM2 motherboard, but it''s most likely not going to be called a Server motherboard at that point. I''m not sure if there''s much difference in price to the Intel Xeon product tho''...? [Fortunately, I didnt''t have to pay for my 2x 2218 Or the FX-62 ;-)] -- Mats> > - --Tod > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Cygwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFFEXef6xsamcQR838RAsakAKDpNAFa5H9kccgNJIYSKBNSd1TkdQCg3S4f > Z1lLc0LyqkWvUiwJdaoq0AU> =ounQ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Will an opteron 1000 series chip work in any AM2 motherboard? The few motherboards I''ve looked at with an AM2 socket don''t list the opteron, just Athlon 64. Athlon chips don''t have the virtualation instructions, do they?>> If you want a budget system, you can get an AM2 motherboard, but it''s >> most likely not going to be called a Server motherboard at that point. >> I''m not sure if there''s much difference in price to the Intel Xeon >> product tho''...? [Fortunately, I didnt''t have to pay for my 2x 2218 Or >> the FX-62 ;-)]-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFEYT56xsamcQR838RAiZ8AJ9a5GMWNJn4rGRPVxotPrCazIvkewCgmtMH OGWs3vzaMJkUHmh/2DHZ88g=AjJV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Hi, I''ll offer one success story, since my needs are the same as yours. Not necessarily a "recommendation", as that would involve comparing multiple alternatives, and I''ve only tried this one. I bought an HP Pavilion d4600y desktop PC. It has a Core2 duo processor, and a P965/G965 chip set. It runs multiple OSs just fine, including unmodified windows under VT. It does not have any BIOS option to turn VT on and off, which at first led me to fear that it is permanently off. Also, another thread on this mailing list raised the fear that the P965 chipset may not be compatible with VT. Both fears turned out to be groundless, and VT is working great for me. Derek. On 9/20/06, Tod Detre <tod@tod.net> wrote:> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, I''m new to the list. Please forgive me if this has been discussed > recently. > > I''m looking at buying a server for at home and I''m looking for advice on > which cpu to base it on. I will want to put a lot of vm''s on this > server, but the load will probably not be very high. Most of the VM''s > will be linux, but I love to try out OS''s so I may try any OS that has > an x86 port (including windows). The server I put together will probably > be 1 socket, but have a dual core chip. > > I know both Intel and AMD offer virtualization instructions on their > chips, but I can''t wade through the marketing fluff to figure out which > one I want. I''m also very new to xen so I don''t really know what to look > for. > > I''ve been looking at the Opteron and the Intel Core 2. From what I found > the Xeon 7000 series is the conroe core. Is that right? > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Cygwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFFEWuk6xsamcQR838RAmpyAKDIp92uYyF1mE1KkDCsSwCzVpEO/gCgkNfu > JrMbnZSApi9R9DY7Lr/fstA> =98ye > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> -----Original Message----- > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com > [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Tod Detre > Sent: 20 September 2006 19:14 > To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] CPU reccomendation? > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Will an opteron 1000 series chip work in any AM2 motherboard? The few > motherboards I''ve looked at with an AM2 socket don''t list the opteron, > just Athlon 64. > > Athlon chips don''t have the virtualation instructions, do they?Yes they do. All "new" Athlon/Opteron/Turion processors have AMD-V. And you''re correct, Opterons only have Socket F option, Athlon64 is the only version that supports AM2... That''s why I suggested the less expensive Athlon64 in Socket AM2 as a cost-reduction exercise. If your server doesn''t have to have a server motherboard, then that''s certainly an option. -- Mats> > > > >> If you want a budget system, you can get an AM2 > motherboard, but it''s > >> most likely not going to be called a Server motherboard at > that point. > >> I''m not sure if there''s much difference in price to the Intel Xeon > >> product tho''...? [Fortunately, I didnt''t have to pay for > my 2x 2218 Or > >> the FX-62 ;-)] > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFFEYT56xsamcQR838RAiZ8AJ9a5GMWNJn4rGRPVxotPrCazIvkewCgmtMH > OGWs3vzaMJkUHmh/2DHZ88g> =AjJV > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I''m confused. According to the following website, quote: "The 1000 Series is built on AMD?s new Socket AM2." http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8796_14309,00.html Thank you for all of the info. You''ve been very helpfull. Now I just need to narrow down my choices.>> Yes they do. All "new" Athlon/Opteron/Turion processors have AMD-V. And >> you''re correct, Opterons only have Socket F option, Athlon64 is the only >> version that supports AM2... That''s why I suggested the less expensive >> Athlon64 in Socket AM2 as a cost-reduction exercise. If your server >> doesn''t have to have a server motherboard, then that''s certainly an >> option.-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFEoCc6xsamcQR838RAuuTAKDU1fU1fNWx7yQT/ywXOlrNaSMQPACgwDsx aUz18hj334yH6XVIS0201Mg=MhKD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Wednesday 20 September 2006 2:17 pm, Tod Detre wrote:> Ugh, ok. And from what I''m finding, there aren''t that many barebones > systems out there that support the Opteron on am2 or f socket yet. I''m > going to have to do some more research to find what I want.The Sun X2100-M2 has socket F Opteron and starts at $945: http://www.sun.com/servers/entry/x2100/ -- James Oakley Engineering - SolutionInc Ltd. joakley@solutioninc.com http://www.solutioninc.com _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Yeah, I was looking at that. It looks cool. My big problem is the memory and ram from sun is SO expensive. Do you know if you buy the system from sun without drives if it comes with the sleds so I can buy drives from newegg? - --tod James Oakley wrote:> On Wednesday 20 September 2006 2:17 pm, Tod Detre wrote: >> Ugh, ok. And from what I''m finding, there aren''t that many barebones >> systems out there that support the Opteron on am2 or f socket yet. I''m >> going to have to do some more research to find what I want. > > The Sun X2100-M2 has socket F Opteron and starts at $945: > > http://www.sun.com/servers/entry/x2100/ >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Cygwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFFBd66xsamcQR838RAkLQAJ9tzP0dprXs4E7LeBNaMOdOZMF4UgCcDbx4 C7sn66V/XSk9fBhdGaUTZIg=9TEc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
I don''t know about the drives; my question is the unbuffered (unregistered) ram. I always use registered ECC in everything that matters; even my desktop now. I get significantly better reliability. How much of that is the buffering vs. the ecc? also, nearly all ram I see on the used market (where I get my DDR1) is either registered ECC or unbuffered non-ecc. but we are getting off-topic to Xen, I soppose. On Fri, 22 Sep 2006, Tod Detre wrote:> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Yeah, I was looking at that. It looks cool. My big problem is the memory > and ram from sun is SO expensive. Do you know if you buy the system from > sun without drives if it comes with the sleds so I can buy drives from > newegg? > > - --tod > > James Oakley wrote: >> On Wednesday 20 September 2006 2:17 pm, Tod Detre wrote: >>> Ugh, ok. And from what I''m finding, there aren''t that many barebones >>> systems out there that support the Opteron on am2 or f socket yet. I''m >>> going to have to do some more research to find what I want. >> >> The Sun X2100-M2 has socket F Opteron and starts at $945: >> >> http://www.sun.com/servers/entry/x2100/ >> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Cygwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFFFBd66xsamcQR838RAkLQAJ9tzP0dprXs4E7LeBNaMOdOZMF4UgCcDbx4 > C7sn66V/XSk9fBhdGaUTZIg> =9TEc > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Friday 22 September 2006 2:03 pm, Tod Detre wrote:> Yeah, I was looking at that. It looks cool. My big problem is the memory > and ram from sun is SO expensive. Do you know if you buy the system from > sun without drives if it comes with the sleds so I can buy drives from > newegg?From the ordering page, it looks like you can get it without drives, but it requires you to select memory. Try calling or emailing them. -- James Oakley Engineering - SolutionInc Ltd. joakley@solutioninc.com http://www.solutioninc.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This e-mail is CONFIDENTIAL and contains information intended only for the person(s) named. Any other distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately at 902 420 0077 or reply by e-mail to the sender and destroy the original communication. Thank You. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users