Hi All,
Appologies in advance i know this topic comes up a lot, but i
couldn''t find answers to these specific questions.
I''ve been looking through the list and couldn''t really
find any
explicit examples of people deploying Windows Server Guests in
production Xen environment. Have many people done this? Is xen stable
enough to do this? Has windows proved stable when running on xen....
What hardware are people using (we normally buy HP servers).
If it proves practical we would hopefully use iscsi and our NetApp
filer for the storage too. Any comments or examples of setups?
Any responses are very much appreciated, in an effort to redeem
myself for asking such a commonly covered question i''m happy to add my
finding to the wiki to help other find the info easier ;-) I didn''t
turn anything up searching the mailing list.
I guess what i''m really looking for is someone to say
"i''ve tried
this, and this works great! ;-)" (with an example of what
''this'' is!)
Thanks in advance!
Alex
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Greg Freemyer
2006-May-24 17:23 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Production Xen Deployment (Windows Guests)
On 5/24/06, Alex Pearson <alex.pearson@eastriding.gov.uk> wrote:> > Hi All, > Appologies in advance i know this topic comes up a lot, but i > couldn''t find answers to these specific questions. > I''ve been looking through the list and couldn''t really find any > explicit examples of people deploying Windows Server Guests in > production Xen environment. Have many people done this? Is xen stable > enough to do this? Has windows proved stable when running on xen.... > What hardware are people using (we normally buy HP servers). > If it proves practical we would hopefully use iscsi and our NetApp > filer for the storage too. Any comments or examples of setups? > Any responses are very much appreciated, in an effort to redeem > myself for asking such a commonly covered question i''m happy to add my > finding to the wiki to help other find the info easier ;-) I didn''t > turn anything up searching the mailing list. > I guess what i''m really looking for is someone to say "i''ve tried > this, and this works great! ;-)" (with an example of what ''this'' is!) > > Thanks in advance! > > AlexIf you don''t know, for Xen to work with a Windows Guest it requires VT support in the hardware/bios (Intel hardware only, AMD is not shipping its equivalent silicon yet). I''ve seen a several people posting on this list about the above including some benchmarks, but I don''t know if any of them are in production. Resources I''ve found to better know what has VT support: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/IntelVT http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/proc_info_table.pdf Note: Maybe people here that have working systems could update the wiki site above. Also if your looking for a vendor that will support your xen setup I copied this from another list:>>A really neat vendor to add to your list is Virtual Iron One aspect of their approach to VT is to treat each node on an infiniband network as a NUMA node in a single image scale up approach. It is public info that Intel Capital is investing there. http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1863527,00.asp << Greg -- Greg Freemyer The Norcross Group Forensics for the 21st Century _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Sanket Agrawal
2006-May-24 18:05 UTC
RE: [Xen-users] Production Xen Deployment (Windows Guests)
Greg, This question was answered just this morning (in response to my question). You need virtualization capabilities in the processor (Xeon has VT technology) unless you get MS to share Windows source code with you to modify OS for Xen virtualization. AMD is going to release pacifica for Opterons in July (tentative). More details below on Xen from Javier Guerrra''s email: historically, virtualization systems (VMWare, QEmu, VirtualPC, etc) on x86 had to use heavy emulation techniques to compensate for the lack of real hardware virtualization. Xen uses a different tradeoff, it relies on modifications to the guest OS. it doesn''t need any new processor feature, and doesn''t use it if present. of course, as we all know, that doesn''t work with closed source OSs, so the Xen people began to work on a real virtualization feature. The tradeoff chosen was to make it depend on the new hardware features so it wouldn''t get much worse overhead than the already working paravirtualization. In short: without Pacifica/VT: - paravirtualized guests (linux, bsd, solaris): very low overhead - unmodified guests: can''t run. with Pacifica/VT: - paravirtualized guests (linux, bsd, solaris): very low overhead (same as before) - unmodified guests: run with somewhat bigger overhead; but not so bad as old software-only solutions. or, another way to see it: modifiable OS: can run paravirtualized, very low overhead. doesn''t need nor use any new virtualization feature of the processor. non-modifiable OS: need Pacifica/VT processors, get higher overhead on disk and graphics. there are some plans about using some new CPU features even on paravirtualized domains to get lower cross-domain switching times, or easier PCI administration, or to mix 64bit/PAE/32bit guests.... but all those are in the future. ________________________________ From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Greg Freemyer Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:24 PM To: Alex Pearson Cc: xen-users@lists.xensource.com Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Production Xen Deployment (Windows Guests) On 5/24/06, Alex Pearson <alex.pearson@eastriding.gov.uk> wrote: Hi All, Appologies in advance i know this topic comes up a lot, but i couldn''t find answers to these specific questions. I''ve been looking through the list and couldn''t really find any explicit examples of people deploying Windows Server Guests in production Xen environment. Have many people done this? Is xen stable enough to do this? Has windows proved stable when running on xen.... What hardware are people using (we normally buy HP servers). If it proves practical we would hopefully use iscsi and our NetApp filer for the storage too. Any comments or examples of setups? Any responses are very much appreciated, in an effort to redeem myself for asking such a commonly covered question i''m happy to add my finding to the wiki to help other find the info easier ;-) I didn''t turn anything up searching the mailing list. I guess what i''m really looking for is someone to say "i''ve tried this, and this works great! ;-)" (with an example of what ''this'' is!) Thanks in advance! Alex If you don''t know, for Xen to work with a Windows Guest it requires VT support in the hardware/bios (Intel hardware only, AMD is not shipping its equivalent silicon yet). I''ve seen a several people posting on this list about the above including some benchmarks, but I don''t know if any of them are in production. Resources I''ve found to better know what has VT support: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/IntelVT http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/proc_info_table.pdf Note: Maybe people here that have working systems could update the wiki site above. Also if your looking for a vendor that will support your xen setup I copied this from another list:>>A really neat vendor to add to your list is Virtual Iron One aspect of their approach to VT is to treat each node on an infiniband network as a NUMA node in a single image scale up approach. It is public info that Intel Capital is investing there. http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1863527,00.asp << Greg -- Greg Freemyer The Norcross Group Forensics for the 21st Century _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Mark Williamson
2006-May-24 18:18 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Production Xen Deployment (Windows Guests)
> Also if your looking for a vendor that will support your xen setup I copied > this from another list: > > A really neat vendor to add to your list is Virtual Iron > > One aspect of their approach to VT is to treat each node on an > infiniband network as a NUMA node in a single image scale up approach. > > It is public info that Intel Capital is investing there. > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1863527,00.asp > <<I was under the impression that VI had now abandoned the "virtual SMP cluster" approach, and were concentrating on providing management products for their Xen-based package. Apparently they were finding it so hard to persuade potential customers to use Infiniband it was more like selling the IB adapters than software... I think the cluster SMP stuff was predicated on people having IB infrastructure, that''s not yet widely deployed. Cheers, Mark -- Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no pedals! Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard? Dave: Skateboards have wheels. Mark: My wheel has a wheel! _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Alex Pearson
2006-May-25 08:48 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Production Xen Deployment (Windows Guests)
Hi All! Thanks very much for you quick reply (everyone!). I understand that I would need VT hardware to run such a setup, but i was looking more for specific of peoples succuss (or failure!) stories regarding trying to deploy xen in a production windows environment. Also just to clarify is the commercial version (XenEnterprise) actually released yet? Thanks again everyone! Alex Pearson IT Officer East Riding of Yorkshire Council 01482 394567 Alex Pearson IT Officer IT Infrastructure 01482 394567 Alex.Pearson@eastriding.gov.uk Mark Williamson wrote: Also if your looking for a vendor that will support your xen setup I copied this from another list: A really neat vendor to add to your list is Virtual Iron One aspect of their approach to VT is to treat each node on an infiniband network as a NUMA node in a single image scale up approach. It is public info that Intel Capital is investing there. http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1863527,00.asp << I was under the impression that VI had now abandoned the "virtual SMP cluster" approach, and were concentrating on providing management products for their Xen-based package. Apparently they were finding it so hard to persuade potential customers to use Infiniband it was more like selling the IB adapters than software... I think the cluster SMP stuff was predicated on people having IB infrastructure, that''s not yet widely deployed. Cheers, Mark ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Please note that the East Riding of Yorkshire Council is able to, and reserves the right to, monitor e-mail communications passing through its network. If you have received this email in error please notify our mail manager at postmaster@eastriding.gov.uk. Whilst every effort has been made to check for viruses in this e-mail and any attachments, the Council does not warrant that it or they are free of viruses. If in any doubt then please ask for the hard copy. ********************************************************************** _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users