Hello, A question: Can we use uncoupled encoding in the 1.0? (current CVS) How? Because I see some uncoupled definitions (books\uncoupled\res_books_uncoupled.h), but I don't know how could I switch to it manually. Perhaps with an option in the vorbis_encode_ctl() function... Because I think so it's better if I don't use any kind of channel coupling (lossless neither) on high bitrates (>300 kbit). Plans? Solutions? thanks Attila Padar <p><p><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
On Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 11:13:01PM +0200, P?d?r Attila wrote:> Hello, > > A question: > Can we use uncoupled encoding in the 1.0?Vorbis uses lossless coupling for high bitrates, like the ones you want. That is, 'coupling which decodes bit-identically to uncoupled modes, but uses less space'. Monty --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Pádár Attila wrote:> Can we use uncoupled encoding in the 1.0?[...]> Because I think so it's better if I don't > use any kind of channel coupling (lossless > neither) on high bitrates (>300 kbit).Not using any coupling would be a waste of space - it makes no sense to store mono parts in a stereo tune twice, i.e. there's only one of two channels stored completely plus the difference to the second channel. Doing that without using lossy techniques to reduce stereo information happens in CVS > -q 6, that's 192 kbps nominal (to answer your question, what you want already happens). Afaik, uncoupled modes get only used on Vorbis streams with more than two channels, or mono songs, of course. (Guessing that, I believe I read something like that months ago ... might be outdated information.) I heard it's possible to force the encoder to use lossless coupling, maybe even uncoupled modes (brrrr, i really hope it doesn't allow that ;( ), on lower quality settings, instead of the favored "smart stereo" using that vorbis_encode_ctl() function or undocumented oggenc parameters. (I'm not sure about that either, I didn't look at the code yet to figure out the undocumented options of oggenc.) That's not a good idea, though, and should be used for testing only. <p>Moritz P.S.: Grml, Monty was faster :) Anyways, for heaven's sake, *send*. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Sorry, I found the answer at the end of vorbis-dev mails... (but I'm still missing this function) Other problem: There is a large ogg file in the CVS. (ogg-tools/omplay/test.ogg) I think so the CVS is not the right place to store test files... I always have to download +4Mbytes... Can somebody remove it? thnx <p><p><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
> Where do you suggest we store it?Anywhere out of the CVS. :) Perhaps in a separated diretory on vorbis.com/xiph.org And put a link only in the omplay source...>You don't need anything in ogg-tools for normal Ogg Vorbis >stuff. ogg-tools is an experimental module for testing >multi-stream ogg files, and is currently set up for Vorbis > + MIDI in a single file.I know this, because of this I don't want to download it always... and I think so most of the people also... We (you) should store only the latest source code(s) in the CVS. Attila <p><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
I am paranoid, so I've implemented myself the switch of channel coupling. It wasn't difficult, so I don't understand why doesn't Monty want to implement it... If somebody also would like to use non-coupled encoding, visit: http://mpxplay.cjb.net and download AudioCVw program. About the BETA4 vs. RC3/RC4: 1.I also was satisified with beta4 very much, and I didn't understand the new RCx routines, because they were really bad (subjective opinion). 2.But I think so the latest CVS (pre 1.0) is really good and I've begun to believe in it. (but it still requires quality improvement to win against beta4) 3.Because a lot of people asked for it (I also), Monty will care more with the high bitrates... that's all folks bye <p><p><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Craig Dickson wrote:> So would it be correct to assume that if I take a mono > recording from a > stereo CD (two tracks of essentially identical data), encoding it as a > two-channel Vorbis file would give me an only slightly larger > file than > if I first used a wave editor to throw away one of the two > channels and > then encoded it as a single-channel Vorbis file? (with all > other encoder > settings the same, of course)FYI I tried this yesterday with RC3 and found the resulting ogg files to be substantially smaller if I removed one channel from the input wave file first. These were mono recordings that were ripped from a CD -- each channel was bit-identical. I can post actual numbers if anyone is interested or surprised -- the files are at home. Regards, Owen <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Craig Dickson wrote:> Owen Emry wrote: > > > FYI I tried this yesterday with RC3 and found the resulting > ogg files > > to be substantially smaller if I removed one channel from the input > > wave file first. These were mono recordings that were > ripped from a CD > > -- each channel was bit-identical. I can post actual > numbers if anyone > > is interested or surprised -- the files are at home. > > Is the bit-identity of the two channels something you > actually verified > somehow, or is it an assumption?They really are identical. A quick way to verify, btw, is to invert one channel and mix it into the other, and see if you end up with a whole lotta zeros. :) I used RC3, and at -q 5 the 2-channel wave file ended up at around 80 kbps, and the the 1-channel wave file was on the order of 50 kbps. Source was an ancient recording of Fred Astaire, which is why I presume it compressed down so much even at q5. -Owen <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Sorry, everybody are in right...
Monty is in right:
because my solution is not 100% perfect,
it's just an exclusion in the
get_setup_template() function on this way:
if(setup_list[i]->coupling_restriction==-1 ||
(hi->channel_couple_p &&
setup_list[i]->coupling_restriction==ch)){
The hi->channel_couple_p is the switch,
I set it in the vorbis_encode_ctl()
(have to set before the vorbis_encode_setup_managed())
It's not a switch between the different coupling
modes, it's a switch between the coupled
and non-coupled encoding tables.
And other people are also in right, because:
a lot of people (I also) always dispute
with the developers (with Monty) and we forget
to compliment (is this the right word?)
their/his work.
So, I'm very happy that somebody can develop
a great audio encoder like Ogg Vorbis
(I couldn't do it), and I wouldn't like to
balk you with my lamer suggestions... :)
thank you
and best regards
Attila Padar
<p><p><p>--- >8 ----
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