Ogg Vorbis is still not known by the mainstream and not widely used these days. I've been thinking about this... MP3 is so popular because people can download music for free (and thus pirating music). I recommend Vorbis to everybody I know, but most of them refuse to even try it because it's not popular (or because they are hardcore MP3 zealots), which results in a circle (little people use it because it's not popular, but it will not get popular because little people use it). Yet DivX 4.0 (which is only a marketing name, and has nothing to do with the "old" DivX), gains popularity day by day, even though it wasn't not used by anybody when it was first released. Is the only way for Vorbis to become popular to promote it as a tool for music piracy? Of course I understand none of the developers want Vorbis to become something like that. Comments? Flames? <p><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Hongl Lai wrote: > > I've been thinking about this... MP3 is so popular because > people can download music for free (and thus pirating music). MP3 became popular because it was the only alternative a couple of years ago. > I recommend Vorbis to everybody I know... > <p>Maybe you're being pushy. Forget arguing about quality because they'll only think "mp3 sounds fine to me". If you tell them mp3 is bad quality then you're insulting them. Tell them the files are much smaller, only mention quality if they ask you about it and limit yourself to "of course it is". You could also tell them that a lot of streaming services are switching to .ogg because it saves them a lot of money. No licensing fees to pay and because the files are smaller it saves them bandwidth (which is expensive). Smaller is also good if you've only got a 64Mb flash card to store music. When hardware players are more mature then manufacturers who want to distinguish themselves from the pack will start adding ogg support. In short, Rome wasn't built in a day and trying to force people to change will only gain you enemies. People like to think they do things because they decided to, not because somebody told them to. <p> -- <\___/> / O O \ \_____/ FTB. <p><p><p><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Easy! We just put our 1000-record OGG collections online, but don't say anything about it on the official mailinglists! =) <p>torsdagen den 10 januari 2002 21.32 skrev du:> Ogg Vorbis is still not known by the mainstream and not widely used > these days. > I've been thinking about this... MP3 is so popular because people can > download music for free (and thus pirating music). > I recommend Vorbis to everybody I know, but most of them refuse to even > try it because it's not popular (or because they are hardcore MP3 > zealots), which results in a circle (little people use it because it's > not popular, but it will not get popular because little people use it). > Yet DivX 4.0 (which is only a marketing name, and has nothing to do with > the "old" DivX), gains popularity day by day, even though it wasn't not > used by anybody when it was first released. > > Is the only way for Vorbis to become popular to promote it as a tool for > music piracy? > Of course I understand none of the developers want Vorbis to become > something like that. > > Comments? Flames? > > > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
At 21:32 10-01-02 +0100, you wrote: <p>>Is the only way for Vorbis to become popular to promote it as a tool for>music piracy? >Of course I understand none of the developers want Vorbis to become >something like that. > >Comments? Flames?I would not know. I only know that I promote it to all my male friends, not giviong them much of an alternative, since I generally refuse to encode to MP3 anymore. I'm a bit cruel in that department ;-). If they can't handle it, their loss. The only exeption is when I want certain "special" non-computer-savvy women to listen to certain music. Then I can persuade myself to encode to the ever so popular format spawned from the loins of Satan. *Sigh* If only Winamp supported Ogg by default. I guess our best option is to show people how Ogg sounds better than MP3 at lower bitrates and how this is a good thing regarding bandwidth consumption and general storage space ["Habent Abdenda Omnes Praeter Me ac Xiphophorus Meam"] <p>Kind regards, Peter. Adress is not munged. <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
I figure the best way to make it popular, is to use it! I just rip all my music to OGGs now, and download as many as I can. If I find an mp3 file that has problems with sync when I try to burn it, I transcode it to OGG, where I would previously have re-encoded it to mp3. I make the OGG winamp plugin available prominantly on my web site via a big fat link. etc etc. I'm still very dissapointed the decoder is not included in winamp! is this going to happen soon? ----- Original Message ----- From: Hongl Lai <hongli@telekabel.nl> Date: Friday, January 11, 2002 7:32 am Subject: [vorbis] How to make Vorbis popular> Ogg Vorbis is still not known by the mainstream and not widely used > these days. > I've been thinking about this... MP3 is so popular because people can > download music for free (and thus pirating music). > I recommend Vorbis to everybody I know, but most of them refuse to > eventry it because it's not popular (or because they are hardcore MP3 > zealots), which results in a circle (little people use it because it's > not popular, but it will not get popular because little people use > it).Yet DivX 4.0 (which is only a marketing name, and has nothing > to do with > the "old" DivX), gains popularity day by day, even though it wasn't > notused by anybody when it was first released. > > Is the only way for Vorbis to become popular to promote it as a > tool for > music piracy? > Of course I understand none of the developers want Vorbis to become > something like that. > > Comments? Flames? > > > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis- > request@xiph.org'containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the > body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. ><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
That's a little sneaky!!! Only one question: What is ZENworks? (doing web search now.) On Thu, 2002-01-10 at 14:11, MARK JAMES HETHERINGTON wrote:> I figure the best way to make it popular, is to use it! I just rip all > my music to OGGs now, and download as many as I can. If I find an mp3 > file that has problems with sync when I try to burn it, I transcode it > to OGG, where I would previously have re-encoded it to mp3. I make the > OGG winamp plugin available prominantly on my web site via a big fat > link. etc etc.I'll go you one better: I use ZENworks to push to our entire building the latest WinAmp version along with my selected collection of skins and plugins, including (you guessed it) the latest in_vorbis.dll I can find. I love ZENworks... =) -- Karel P Kerezman, IS Admin Entercom Portland 1348. The Black Death, typhus, cholera...those were the days. <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Cool. Unfortunately no-one is stupid/crazy enough to allow me to administrate their machine, especially when they find out about my plans for world domination, muahhahaahahahahahaha! On Thu, 2002-01-10 at 16:18, MARK JAMES HETHERINGTON wrote:> That's a little sneaky!!!I do my best! =)> Only one question: What is ZENworks? (doing web search now.)ZENworks is a Novell administration product, of which I'm using the free "Starter Pack." With it you can, given a Netware server and properly enabled client PCs, distribute files, registry settings, programs and related what-not. ZENworks, the full product, also allows neat things like policy control, inventory and remote-control. (Okay, you can do user/group policies in the Starter Pack, I just don't. It does, after all, rely on Windows9x's built-in policy code, which blows large hairy goats.) -- Karel P Kerezman, IS Admin Entercom Portland "What did Medieval people do before television?" "Had tea, I suppose." <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
> Were you guys not paying attention when monty said 1.0 will be low > bitrates and bitrate management improvement? Ie, rc3 high bitrates (112 > and up I assume) is finished unless we find bugs. Which based on past > history, we would have found by now :) > > Stop holding back :)IIRC, didn't Monty say a while back that while q>=5 gives lossless channel coupling in RC3, for the time being q<5 still uses point stereo, with phase stereo being left out? Sure, it's easy enough to fix by using q=5, but I'd be tempted to play with 8-phase stereo otherwise. Also, are there are plans for allowing user-selectable stereo modes in future releases? <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
On Sat, 2002-01-12 at 23:11, Peter Schuller wrote:> > > Well I do agree with him. ;-) > > This is also why DivX 4.0 is gaining more and more market share, dispite > > the dirty things Project Mayo/DivXNetworks did. > > What dirty things? Are you referring to DivX ;-) or something concerning > DivX 4/OpenDivX itself? If the latter, I'd like to know what :) >The DivX 4/OpenDivX thing. It still surprise me that so little people know about what happened. Basically, Project Mayo started the OpenDivX project, then after a while they deceived the OpenDivX volunteer developers, closed the CVS, closed the mailing list, killed the OpenDivX project, and stole their code and released their own, proprietary, closed source DivX 4.0 codec. Yet nobody cares; DivX 4.0 wins more and more market share every day. People still continue to support them, even after I told them what happened. *sight* I don't see much hope anymore. Project Mayo is still pretending as if OpenDivX is still alive and in development. The OpenDivX fork, XviD, doesn't make much progress at all. Other open source video codecs are either too slow, too unstable, produce too bad quality, or are still in development. <p><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.