Hi: Saw this in Edupage today. Grrrrrr. Geoff. From: EDUCAUSE <educause@EDUCAUSE.EDU> COPY-PROTECTED CDS QUIETLY SLIP INTO STORES Macrovision, in coordination with several major recording labels, has for several months been piloting new technology to prevent music consumers from copying CDs onto their PCs. The technology distorts CD recordings with a series of audible pops and clicks when the music is copied onto a PC. The Macrovision pilot is the latest in a series of attempts by the recording industry to protect music from digital piracy. Previous efforts have largely failed, either because various industry elements have been unable to agree on how to implement the technology or because the technology also disrupted normal CD playback. The recording industry's attempts to prevent the copying of CDs onto PCs presents a legal quandary, however, because the courts have recognized the right of consumers to copy copyright-protected work for home use. (Cnet, 18 July 2001) --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Geoff Shang wrote:>The technology distorts CD recordings with a series of audible pops and >clicks when the music is copied onto a PC.There's no way it's platform independent, right? Besides, couldn't we just hack something that captured the output stream of, say a CDPlayer app and redirect it to a .wav file? Or are they saying from now on that we can't play legitimately purchased CDs on our PCs? Betcha this goes the way of DivX (the DVD scheme, not the OS video compression scheme). - Chris --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
> technology also disrupted normal CD playback. The recording > industry's attempts to prevent the copying of CDs onto PCs > presents a legal quandary, however, because the courts have > recognized the right of consumers to copy copyright-protected > work for home use.There is no way this is going to work. If you use Exact Audio Copy every sector is copied as raw data. And each sector is read more than one time to ensure correct content. EAC doesn't care about the contents as long as it's read correct. I can't see any way to stop this. The only way must be to create a new audio-cd standard.. And it's not likely to happen for a loooong time...... Richard --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Big deal! Simply run the ripped tracks through SpinDoctor (or some other software) and remove the pops, crackles, and clicks! Simple as that! /jp/ dojpaul@coffey.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Shang" <gshang@uq.net.au> To: <vorbis@xiph.org> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 9:04 p Subject: [vorbis] Here we go again... | Hi: | | Saw this in Edupage today. Grrrrrr. | | Geoff. | | From: EDUCAUSE <educause@EDUCAUSE.EDU> | | COPY-PROTECTED CDS QUIETLY SLIP INTO STORES | Macrovision, in coordination with several major recording labels, | has for several months been piloting new technology to prevent | music consumers from copying CDs onto their PCs. The technology | distorts CD recordings with a series of audible pops and clicks | when the music is copied onto a PC. The Macrovision pilot is the | latest in a series of attempts by the recording industry to | protect music from digital piracy. Previous efforts have largely | failed, either because various industry elements have been unable | to agree on how to implement the technology or because the | technology also disrupted normal CD playback. The recording | industry's attempts to prevent the copying of CDs onto PCs | presents a legal quandary, however, because the courts have | recognized the right of consumers to copy copyright-protected | work for home use. | (Cnet, 18 July 2001) --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
>On Monday 23 July 2001 14:38, you wrote: >> On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, [Windows-1250] Jernej Simonèiè wrote: >> When standalone CD player (or your CD-ROM when playing through >> soundcard) encounters uncorrectable error on disc, it silences that >> part of audio, as it's less hearable that pop or click. However, when >> you digitally extract that same place, your ripper won't "turn the >> volume down" for the click, but will simply write it to disk. >> > >Isn't it possible to detect read errors on disc, and then instead of >digitalizing the error, digitalize the correction? >Of course. This would (if as stated) be so easy to hack that I wouldn't be surprised that there are several fixes out there already. This is about as secure as changing the song names to Pig Latin. Regards Marshall>--- >8 ---- >List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ >Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ >To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org'>containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed.>Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. >Marshall Eubanks tme@21rst-century.com --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Uh , let me inject some facts into this thread. There are many, many , many levels or error correction on an audio CD ( and even more on data CD ). The Red Book should describe it pretty well, but it is not available on-line for free. But there is ECMA 130, which is supposedly the same as Yellow Book and should contain enough information : Standard ECMA-130 Data Interchange on Read-only 120 mm Optical Data Disks (CD-ROM) 2nd edition (June 1996) available as PDF an PS at http://www.ecma.ch/ecma1/STAND/ECMA-130.HTM I think it lacks info about the structure of the (sub)frames ( about the P,Q,R, S,T,U,V,W channels , sync , parity info ). You can find that info on the web though ( an exercise for the reader :-) More links : - Chip's CD Media Resource Center , http://www.chipchapin.com/CDMedia/index.php3 - just use google for Pete's sake ! Jonathon Fowler (jonof@dingoblue.net.au) wrote :> Maybe I'm just forgetful but I was always under the impression that it > was the CD-R formats that wrote error correction data in the (2328-2048) > bytes at the end of each sector. I always thought the CD-audio format > never had error correction data and used the entire 2328-byte sectors > for audio data storage without error correction information, unless of > course I'm getting confused and really don't know the finer details of > the CD format as I thought I did. > > Jonathon > > craig duncan wrote: > > > Hongli Lai wrote: > > > >>On Monday 23 July 2001 14:38, you wrote: > >> > >>>On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, [Windows-1250] Jernej Simonèiè wrote: > >>>When standalone CD player (or your CD-ROM when playing through > >>>soundcard) encounters uncorrectable error on disc, it silences that > >>>part of audio, as it's less hearable that pop or click. However, when > >>>you digitally extract that same place, your ripper won't "turn the > >>>volume down" for the click, but will simply write it to disk. > >>> > >>> > >>Isn't it possible to detect read errors on disc, and then instead of > >>digitalizing the error, digitalize the correction? > >> > >> > > > > That'll be the s/w that defeats this particular scheme. Just a little ripper > > add-on. In regard to the question about pops & clicks vs. dropouts, the > > (above) implied answer is that you _don't_ experience a dropout because the > > CD format comprises a good deal of redunandancy in the form of extra error > > correction data. So they put errors on the disc but also the extra > > redundancy data to correct the errors. I can't believe anyone would think > > this would defeat the hacker community's ability to program a ripper that > > does exactly what Hongli wrote, though -- save the corrected data. > > > > craig > >-- David Balazic -------------- "Be excellent to each other." - Bill & Ted - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
This should provide a detailed explanation... http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq02.html#S2-4-2 --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.