Silvia.Pfeiffer@csiro.au
2003-Jan-11 06:39 UTC
[theora-dev] Update on IETF Internet-Drafts
Good day,
FYI, I've just sent the attached email to IETF to progress our I-Ds.
There are also links to updated documents in this email.
Cheers,
Silvia.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: New I-Ds for Ogg technologies (Vorbis over RTP, Ogg file
format, Mimetypes)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 01:36:31 +1100
From: Silvia Pfeiffer <Silvia.Pfeiffer@csiro.au>
Organization: CSIRO
To: AVT List <avt@ietf.org>, casner@acm.org, csp@isi.edu,mankin@psg.com
Hello everybody,
everal new I-Ds have been submitted from the Ogg community this week.
The intention of our submissions is to gain IETF standards on the freely
available and open media technologies that are developed in the Ogg
community (http://www.xiph.org/). Required standards embrace things like
container format specifications, rtp transport specifications, and MIME
type specifications. The listed I-Ds are the currently existing
submissions, which we would like to see discussed here. This is also a
request to the Area Directors to progress them onto the standards track.
---
The first two I-Ds relate to a persistent container format that was
specified to hold Internet transportable media data in a simple way.
These should be simple to handle as they have been discussed on this
list before and the format is stable:
1) "The application/ogg Media Type"
Author(s) : L. Walleij
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-walleij-ogg-mediatype-08.txt
This is an I-D requesting to register "application/ogg" as a mime-type
for any bitstream that conforms to the Ogg bitstream format
specification (see I-D below).
<p>2) "The Ogg encapsulation format version 0"
Author(s) : S. Pfeiffer
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-pfeiffer-ogg-fileformat-01.txt
This I-D specifies the Ogg bitstream format version 0, which is a
general, freely-available encapsulation format for media streams. It is
capable to encapsulate any kind and number of video and audio encoding
formats as well as other data streams in a single bitstream.
---
The next two I-Ds relate to transporting audio data encoded in the
Vorbis format over rtp:
3) "RTP Payload Format for Vorbis Encoded Audio"
Author(s) : P. Kerr
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kerr-avt-vorbis-rtp-00.txt
This document describes a RTP payload format for transporting Vorbis
encoded audio.
<p>4) "The audio/rtp-vorbis MIME Type"
Author(s) : B. Short
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-short-avt-rtp-vorbis-mime-00.txt
This document explains the need for a MIME subtype which identifies a
Vorbis audio payload to be used within a Realtime Transport Protocol
(RTP) bitstream. This document also provides the necessary information
to register
audio/rtp-vorbis as a MIME type.
---
Regards,
Silvia Pfeiffer.
--- >8 ----
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On Sun, Jan 12, 2003 at 01:39:10AM +1100, Silvia.Pfeiffer@csiro.au wrote:> Good day, > > FYI, I've just sent the attached email to IETF to progress our I-Ds. > There are also links to updated documents in this email. >Page 8: "Ogg Theora" multiplexes a Vorbis-encoded audio bitstream and a VP3-encoded video bitstream in a single physical Ogg bitstream. I believe this is incorrect as well. Ogg Theora, to my knowledge, is a video codec. It does not have any formal relationship to Vorbis and does not require that a Vorbis stream be present. You have a Theora bitstream and a Vorbis bitstream that are concurrently multiplexed to provide the video and audio. It should be possible, down the road, to use Squish, Flac, or Speex in place of (or in addition to) Vorbis, and this should have no effect on Theora at all. <p> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: part Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 188 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora-dev/attachments/20030112/a3ac9bed/part-0001.pgp
I'm pretty sure we're set on Theora being the codec, OGG being the
wrapper. Anything else seems convoluted. Really this is an issue for Emmett
& Monty to work out; last we discussed it there was a lack of consensus,
which is why the issue remains unresolved I suspect.
My 'marketing 101' 2c worth is this: Whenever you add a label to the
namespace, as it were, you potentially divide your brand awareness. It's
kind of like globals in a program: they're bad because they create competing
top-level structure. Everything should derive from something, and there should
be one global export at the top of the heirarchy. Note how Microsoft brands
everything as M$-this, M$-that. Think of it as microsoft.word, microsoft.excel.
We need the same sort of structure. There is already some dissipation of brand
awareness with Vorbis vs. OGG (and Xiph hanging around too). However, it is
appropriate to create new names within the heirarchy when they refer to
legitimately new things (ie Speex is not Vorbis; Tarkin is not Theora).
My vote would be to make OGG the top-level exported term. It's three
letters. It's a file format. It could be an extension. It's what a
user will usually see. It has things in it, and they have names too -- Vorbis,
Theora, Speex, Flac, etc.
Emmett, you gotta do the CEO thing here and make a final decision or the
ambiguity will fester and cause illness in our memespace.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Giles [mailto:giles@xiph.org]
Sent: Sun 1/12/2003 10:29 PM
To: theora-dev@xiph.org
Cc:
Subject: Re: [theora-dev] Update on IETF Internet-Drafts
On Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 06:06 pm, Arc wrote:
> I believe this is incorrect as well. Ogg Theora, to my knowledge, is a
> video codec. It does not have any formal relationship to Vorbis and
> does not require that a Vorbis stream be present. You have a Theora
> bitstream and a Vorbis bitstream that are concurrently multiplexed to
> provide the video and audio. It should be possible, down the road, to
> use Squish, Flac, or Speex in place of (or in addition to) Vorbis, and
> this should have no effect on Theora at all.
I've heard it both ways. There are two different things: the new,
possibly incompatible version of vp3, and an overall spec for embedding
that video, along with audio and whatever else we decide to bless in a
minumum-decodable spec. Initially it sounded like 'theora'
referred to
the later, but Dan said last week it was more of the former. Perhaps
it's both.
It may be best to remove that sentence until and if a better concensus
develops for the name. Anybody feel strongly one way or another?
-r
--- >8 ----
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Ralph Giles
2003-Feb-11 05:25 UTC
[theora-dev] Re: [vorbis-dev] Update on IETF Internet-Drafts
On Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 02:39 pm, Silvia.Pfeiffer@csiro.au wrote:> 2) "The Ogg encapsulation format version 0" > Author(s) : S. Pfeiffer > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-pfeiffer-ogg-fileformat- > 01.txtSilvia, I had a couple of editorial suggestions: Section 1:> It is capable to interleave different binary...Is this an au-ism? 'capable of interleaving' is the usual phase in us english. The whole sentence is a little awkward, but I can't come up with anything better.> Please note that there is a related document containing information > to register application/ogg as MIME type. It is currently being > processed as Internet-Draft: application/ogg MIME type I-D [1].And of course this can be updated soon. :) Section 6.3: s/media frame/packet/ ? Section 6.4: s/It's/Its/ Thanks again for all your work on this! -r --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'theora-dev-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.