Speex dev - Oct 2008 - Fwd: [Vorbis-dev] Flash Vorbis player

Hi,

I wanted to let you know that I have just made available the sources
to the ogg + vorbis implementation in haXe, which I've been working on
for last couple of weeks. The code compiles to an swf file playable in
Flash Player 10.

A demo of a simple player implementation (latest Flash 10 required):

http://people.xiph.org/~arek/pg/hx/test.html

and the sources, in a bzr branch, currently at:

http://people.xiph.org/~arek/bzr/fogg.dev

The code is based on Cortado's JOrbis, hence the license is LGPL.

There are still some issues, as you will probably notice if you try
the demo, but the performance seems promising - just using the new
flash.Vector type from Flash 10, seems to make it ~4 times faster than
a version using the old Array type.

Hopefully now more people will be able to look at the source and
improve it further.

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated, I really do hope we can make
it usable outside of our community.

Arek

p.s. There's a bit more info in my blog post at:
       http://barelyfocused.net/blog/2008/10/03/flash-vorbis-player/

Arek Korbik schrieb:
> http://people.xiph.org/~arek/bzr/fogg.dev
>
> The code is based on Cortado's JOrbis, hence the license is LGPL.
Hi Arek,

that looks great, at least the performance is much better than with my 
AS3 approach for Flash 9. The sources are however not available on the 
link you mentioned. If you have any interest in releasing your player 
under a less restricted license (Mozilla PL), I would be happy to share 
my AS3 Vorbis decoder with you. Perhaps it's enough to replace the 
arrays I've been using with the new vector to achieve a similar 
performance boost with my code, although the Flash 10 player seem to 
generally execute AS slightly faster. I don't have much time at the 
moment to play around with it myself, but could of course give you a 
helping hand if you need.

Tor

Hello Arek!

Nice work, performance is still much worse than the C vorbis decoder,
but I would say it's acceptable and it's good enough for most
applications. I will try it out and most likely use it when
Flashplayer 10 will be released.

On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Arek Korbik <arkadini at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Tor-Einar Jarnbjo
>> mentioned. If you have any interest in releasing your player under a
less
>> restricted license (Mozilla PL), I would be happy to share my AS3
Vorbis
>
> I could definitely use other people's opinion on the licensing of that
> code. I would like to make it as non-restrictive as possible,
> obviously, but the code is pretty clearly based on cortado's jorbis,
> which is lgpl-ed itself. Unless I go and do my own port from C, which
> I actually started at some point - with Tremor, hoping to get a better
> performance with non-floatingpoint implementation - I don't think
> there is much I can do about the current fvorbis license. Though,
> asking jorbis's authors to re/double-license their code would be one
> option.
Have the Fluendo guys modified the Jorbis lib or is it still the same
Jorbis you can download from jcraft.com?

I wonder why MPL should be better than LGPL. MPL is not compatible to
the GPL 2 and LGPL is fine for most projects as long as you use fvorbis
as a library.

If you really try to put it under a less restrictive license I would
aim for a BSD-style license, that is what xiph is using for ogg and
vorbis.



-- 
Richard Stallman on the GPL: "It's stupidity. It's worse than
stupidity: it's a marketing hype campaign."

Hey everyone, I saw over on the Vorbis-Dev list that they ported Ogg  
Vorbis over to Flash.  Just wondering if this would be possible for  
Speex, and also if you have considered an iPhone implementation.  I  
know that Apple is really hesitant to anger AT&T, but with Google's  
Android, VOIP on cell phones is just around the corner.  Ironically  
voice bandwidth is set to go way down because of it, so I never could  
understand why cell phone companies were so resistant to it.  And  
Adobe just ported Flash to the iPhone so that's just around the corner  
too.  Here is the message:

Begin forwarded message:
> From: Arek Korbik <arkadini at gmail.com>
> Date: October 2, 2008 9:58:35 PM MDT
> To: vorbis-dev at xiph.org
> Subject: [Vorbis-dev] Flash Vorbis player
>
> Hi,
>
> I wanted to let you know that I have just made available the sources
> to the ogg + vorbis implementation in haXe, which I've been working on
> for last couple of weeks. The code compiles to an swf file playable in
> Flash Player 10.
>
> A demo of a simple player implementation (latest Flash 10 required):
>
> http://people.xiph.org/~arek/pg/hx/test.html
>
> and the sources, in a bzr branch, currently at:
>
> http://people.xiph.org/~arek/bzr/fogg.dev
>
> The code is based on Cortado's JOrbis, hence the license is LGPL.
>
> There are still some issues, as you will probably notice if you try
> the demo, but the performance seems promising - just using the new
> flash.Vector type from Flash 10, seems to make it ~4 times faster than
> a version using the old Array type.
>
> Hopefully now more people will be able to look at the source and
> improve it further.
>
> Any feedback will be greatly appreciated, I really do hope we can make
> it usable outside of our community.
>
> Arek
>
> p.s. There's a bit more info in my blog post at:
>       http://barelyfocused.net/blog/2008/10/03/flash-vorbis-player/
> _______________________________________________
> Vorbis-dev mailing list
> Vorbis-dev at xiph.org
> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/vorbis-dev

On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Tor-Einar Jarnbjo
<tor-einar at jarnbjo.name> wrote:
> Oliver Thuns schrieb:
>>
>> I wonder why MPL should be better than LGPL. MPL is not compatible to
>> the GPL 2 and LGPL is fine for most projects as long as you use fvorbis
>> as a library.
>
> I'm not really sure why I mixed in Mozilla here. I was thinking Apache
(even
> less restrictive) and wrote Mozilla. The reason why I think LGPL is too
> restrictive is, that it may be cases, where you have to modify the library
> code itself to integrate it into your own software. Requiring that the
> modified library code must be rereleased under LGPL as well, is IMHO
> unnecessary and may make it unnecessarily difficult to use the library. If
> people want to state their political views by releasing software under
> (L)GPL, fine with me, but if I release OS software, I do it to be used by
> others and not to require the "others" to work for free.
Now it makes sense :-). I'm always for Apache, BSD, MIT, X11 and
similar licenses. And I share your view about the LGPL. Should we ask
the author of Jorbis what he is thinking about it? I'm sure he is on
this mailing list anyway. Nevertheless I wouldn't worry too much about
the LGPL, it's still quite a liberal license.

On 10/3/08, zmorris at mac.com <zmorris at mac.com>
wrote:
> Hey everyone, I saw over on the Vorbis-Dev list that they ported Ogg
> Vorbis over to Flash.  Just wondering if this would be possible for
> Speex
I reckon Flash 10 has native Speex support, so that should be enough
for everyone(?).

-Ivo

On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Arek Korbik <arkadini at gmail.com>
wrote:
> I wanted to let you know that I have just made available the sources
> to the ogg + vorbis implementation in haXe, which I've been working on
> for last couple of weeks. The code compiles to an swf file playable in
> Flash Player 10.
>
> A demo of a simple player implementation (latest Flash 10 required):
>
> http://people.xiph.org/~arek/pg/hx/test.html
Arek, does this read the Vorbis bytes on the server or the client?
That is, it it transcoding from native vorbis to native swf as part of
generating the flash, or is the Flash in the browser opening the
Vorbis?

On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 3:44 AM, Lucas Gonze <lucas.gonze at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Arek, does this read the Vorbis bytes on the server or the client?
> That is, it it transcoding from native vorbis to native swf as part of
> generating the flash, or is the Flash in the browser opening the
> Vorbis?
Vorbis is decoded by Flash on the client. No transcoding involved.

On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 1:43 AM, Oliver Thuns
<oli+243897 at ml0815.streaps.org> wrote:
> Vorbis is decoded by Flash on the client. No transcoding involved.
That is completely amazing.  Completely and totally 100% frakkin
amazing.  Arek, you are a hacker god.

The ability to deploy new formats in the browser with nothing but
web-borne code is huge breakthrough.