Hi, I read the news about Tom Steps quit. I use shorewall for some days now and as many people I ike it very much. I asked Tom in a personal mail, what could be done to continue the project and he told me I had to subscribe to this list. My ideas where: a) Mirroring the site b) I would like to study the code and help c) I am studying computer science and I could ask some teachers and friends there, if they would like to participiate to the project. We use shorewall there at our main routers. What I can do: I started learning AWK, yesterday night. I can script some pieces of bash. I have some ideas on iptables. I started a project adminutility.sf.net (Something similar to shorewall - don?t look at it ;-) ) some years ago, but after I found shorewall, the fial release never left CVS. So I really would like to know, if this very great project will continue. Thanks in advance Christian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.shorewall.net/pipermail/shorewall-devel/attachments/20050523/e45b785b/signature.bin
Sorry for misspelling the name. I meant Tom Eastep. Christian Roessner schrieb:> Hi, > > I read the news about Tom Steps quit. I use shorewall for some days now > and as many people I ike it very much. I asked Tom in a personal mail, > what could be done to continue the project and he told me I had to > subscribe to this list. > > My ideas where: > > a) Mirroring the site > b) I would like to study the code and help > c) I am studying computer science and I could ask some teachers and > friends there, if they would like to participiate to the project. We use > shorewall there at our main routers. > > What I can do: > I started learning AWK, yesterday night. > I can script some pieces of bash. > I have some ideas on iptables. I started a project adminutility.sf.net > (Something similar to shorewall - don?t look at it ;-) ) some years ago, > but after I found shorewall, the fial release never left CVS. > > So I really would like to know, if this very great project will continue. > > Thanks in advance > > Christian > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Shorewall-devel mailing list > Shorewall-devel@lists.shorewall.net > https://lists.shorewall.net/mailman/listinfo/shorewall-devel-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.shorewall.net/pipermail/shorewall-devel/attachments/20050523/4d83df9e/signature.bin
Christian Roessner wrote:> > So I really would like to know, if this very great project will continue. >I think that one of the first priorities for the team should be to try to attract someone to the team that has strong iptables/netfilter knowledge. So far, of the people who have volunteered to help, it seems that iptables/netfilter knowledge (and interest) is missing. You might consider recruiting on the Netfilter and Netfilter development lists. Lack of this knowledge is going to be a handicap going forward. As a case in point, there is a current thread on the User''s List where the poster asks: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have this rule: iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -s 10.8.0.0/16 -j SNAT --to-source $SOURCEIP how do I integrate that into Shorewall? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ So far, attempts to help this person have been unsuccessful because it seems that the well-meaning people attempting to help don''t understand what that rule does. The rule is a basic SNAT rule which is generated by an entry in the masq file. e.g., in /etc/shorewall/masq: #INTERFACE SUBNET ADDRESS <external if> 10.8.0.0/16 $SOURCEIP -Tom -- Tom Eastep \ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ teastep@shorewall.net PGP Public Key \ https://lists.shorewall.net/teastep.pgp.key
Tom Eastep wrote:> > So far, attempts to help this person have been unsuccessful because it > seems that the well-meaning people attempting to help don''t understand > what that rule does. >Damn -- I opened my mouth too soon -- Jerry just answered correctly :-) -Tom -- Tom Eastep \ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ teastep@shorewall.net PGP Public Key \ https://lists.shorewall.net/teastep.pgp.key
On Mon, 2005-05-23 at 10:17, Tom Eastep wrote:> Tom Eastep wrote: > > So far, attempts to help this person have been unsuccessful because it > > seems that the well-meaning people attempting to help don''t understand > > what that rule does. > > Damn -- I opened my mouth too soon -- Jerry just answered correctly :-)Tom, This is a good thing, and exactly as it should be. Most of the time people will fill in the holes. :-) -- Mike Noyes <mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net> http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs
> On Mon, 2005-05-23 at 10:17, Tom Eastep wrote: > > Tom Eastep wrote: > > > So far, attempts to help this person have been unsuccessfulbecause it> > > seems that the well-meaning people attempting to help don''tunderstand> > > what that rule does. > > > > Damn -- I opened my mouth too soon -- Jerry just answeredcorrectly :-)> > Tom, > This is a good thing, and exactly as it should be. Most of the time > people will fill in the holes. :-) > > --"Most" of the time I have the correct answer, create a reply, but before I send it, I check to see if someone else replied, and guess what, Tom already responded.... Into /dev/null goes that reply. Tom, you have always responded too quickly, IMHO, (usually less that an hour) guess I''ll get my chance now... :-) Jerry
Jerry Vonau wrote:> guess I''ll get my chance now... :-)You will indeed, Jerry Thanks, -Tom -- Tom Eastep \ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ teastep@shorewall.net PGP Public Key \ https://lists.shorewall.net/teastep.pgp.key
I hope the efforts of people like Jerry give you the confidence to step back to a last resort level of support instead of just stopping Shorewall support. It is tool late for lunch today. Wednesday is bad for me. When would you like to get together for lunch? Cheers! -- Steve Herber herber@thing.com work: 206-221-7262 Security Engineer, UW Medicine, IT Services home: 425-454-2399 On Mon, 23 May 2005, Tom Eastep wrote:> Tom Eastep wrote: > > > > > So far, attempts to help this person have been unsuccessful because it > > seems that the well-meaning people attempting to help don''t understand > > what that rule does. > > > > Damn -- I opened my mouth too soon -- Jerry just answered correctly :-) > > -Tom >
Steve Herber wrote:> It is tool late for lunch today. Wednesday is bad for me. When would > you like to get together for lunch?How about Friday? -Tom -- Tom Eastep \ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ teastep@shorewall.net PGP Public Key \ https://lists.shorewall.net/teastep.pgp.key
> > "Most" of the time I have the correct answer, create a reply, but > before I send it, > I check to see if someone else replied, and guess what, Tom already > responded.... > Into /dev/null goes that reply. > Tom, you have always responded too quickly, IMHO, (usually less that > an hour)I posted a statement like this a couple of month ago too. So Jerry, I fully agree. And Tom, last weekend when I tested the Multi ISP support with you, I told you that I think that the documentation should be improved and that I want to write it for you. Before I started to think what to write you already fixed it... Impossible to help you like this :-) Alex
My Question is the following, I could be wrong but it seems to me that tom doesn''t really want to leave shorewall but has come to a point where he feels there is no other choice. My idea which is just that is the following. - Tom should never have to answer a support question directly. - Support group is the community as a whole. - Tom should if he wants to is developement only and be part of the devel list only. - Developers that lurk on main support list can always discuss weird issues among developers and possibly offer a solution." Just not tom ;)...kidding." - Plain and simple Tom should focus on developement and not on the doc''s and support of questions like how can i snat, especially when online documentation requires only a simple copy an paste of a rule set to get working. - If people are not ok with this then too bad. Better a small project with fewer release cycle than a large project full of holes. What im trying to say is, if this was a company nobody would be going to the lead developer to ask how to reboot a PC, and open source community should not expect a lead developer to contribute to such questions. Tom I started a project a while back and after being stressed beyond what seemed normal i gave it up, 4 years later i sometimes wish i kept some control over it. But this is just my 2 cents in a world rulled by dollars. ------ World Community Grid Where all my unused computer time goes http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/team/viewTeamInfo.do?teamId=9FL4CP1TN1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Eastep" <teastep@shorewall.net> To: "Shorewall Development Mailing List" <shorewall-devel@lists.shorewall.net> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [Shorewall-devel] What is going on now?> Steve Herber wrote: > >> It is tool late for lunch today. Wednesday is bad for me. When would >> you like to get together for lunch? > > How about Friday? > > -Tom > -- > Tom Eastep \ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool > Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net > Washington USA \ teastep@shorewall.net > PGP Public Key \ https://lists.shorewall.net/teastep.pgp.key > _______________________________________________ > Shorewall-devel mailing list > Shorewall-devel@lists.shorewall.net > https://lists.shorewall.net/mailman/listinfo/shorewall-devel >
Nick Sklav wrote:> My Question is the following, I could be wrong but it seems to me that > tom doesn''t really want to leave shorewall but has come to a point where > he feels there is no other choice.Nick, I may very well come back to Shorewall at some point. My wife (who knows me pretty well given that we''ve been together for 36 years) thinks I''ll be back within six months. I personally don''t know what will happen; but I feel like I have to get totally away from it for a while. -Tom -- Tom Eastep \ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ teastep@shorewall.net PGP Public Key \ https://lists.shorewall.net/teastep.pgp.key
Jerry Vonau wrote:> ... > "Most" of the time I have the correct answer, create a reply, but > before I send it, > I check to see if someone else replied, and guess what, Tom already > responded.... > Into /dev/null goes that reply. > Tom, you have always responded too quickly, IMHO, (usually less that > an hour) > guess I''ll get my chance now... :-)Tom''s Achilles heel. Not only responding quickly, but to nearly *every* thread as well... We love you, Tom, but you''re bloody obsessive. :-) -- Paul <http://paulgear.webhop.net> -- Did you know? Microsoft Internet Explorer and Outlook have a poor track record for security <http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/713878>. Why not try one of the more secure alternatives from <http://mozilla.org>? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.shorewall.net/pipermail/shorewall-devel/attachments/20050524/547150a9/signature.bin
Tom Eastep wrote:> Nick Sklav wrote: > >>My Question is the following, I could be wrong but it seems to me that >>tom doesn''t really want to leave shorewall but has come to a point where >>he feels there is no other choice. > > > Nick, > > I may very well come back to Shorewall at some point. My wife (who knows > me pretty well given that we''ve been together for 36 years) thinks I''ll > be back within six months. I personally don''t know what will happen; but > I feel like I have to get totally away from it for a while.Go for it, man. Have a rest... -- Paul <http://paulgear.webhop.net> -- Did you know? Using Microsoft Internet Explorer can make your computer less secure. Find out more at <http://browsehappy.com>. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.shorewall.net/pipermail/shorewall-devel/attachments/20050524/5ebe0f98/signature.bin
Everyone: I forgot to address the original post to Tom directly. Do you really care about lunch? Well, you might, so if you want to get together for lunch this Friday, contact me for details. Lunch will be somewhere in the Seattle area, in the Northgate to Shoreline region. Tom: Friday is good for me. I have a meeting that ends at noon so 12:30 would be a good time. Which end of town is best for you? Cheers! -- Steve Herber herber@thing.com work: 206-221-7262 Security Engineer, UW Medicine, IT Services home: 425-454-2399 On Mon, 23 May 2005, Tom Eastep wrote:> Steve Herber wrote: > > > It is tool late for lunch today. Wednesday is bad for me. When would > > you like to get together for lunch? > > How about Friday? > > -Tom >
2005/5/23, Tom Eastep <teastep@shorewall.net>:> I may very well come back to Shorewall at some point. My wife (who knows > me pretty well given that we''ve been together for 36 years) thinks I''ll > be back within six months. I personally don''t know what will happen; but > I feel like I have to get totally away from it for a while. > > -Tomgo..take a rest,you deserve it,we ''ll try to keep this proyect running.
Paul Gear wrote:> > We love you, Tom, but you''re bloody obsessive. :-) >As I just wrote to Alex Wilms via IM, I said in my resignation post that "...in the long term, trying to support a project like Shorewall is impossible for a person *of my personality* and age". I fully admit that I''m obsessive about Shorewall; that''s the heart of the problem. -Tom -- Tom Eastep \ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ teastep@shorewall.net PGP Public Key \ https://lists.shorewall.net/teastep.pgp.key
On Monday 23 May 2005 22:13, Tom Eastep wrote:> My wife (who knows me pretty well given that we''ve been together for 36 > years) thinks I''ll be back within six months. I personally don''t know what > will happen; but I feel like I have to get totally away from it for a while.I think we all will miss your development skills on shorewall but we do understand that you need at least some timeout. Enjoy it and use it! I use shorewall on two personal firewall systems and on two firewall systems in the company I work for besides my university studies. Thank you for the wonderful shorewall product! Alex