I've been reading this list for a few weeks now and I've given advice on questions that look challenging but I've deleted MANY questions like these: "How do I (easy question found in the documents)?" Though I don't count myself an expert, I've known enough experts to see that they _HATE_ it when you don't invest some time before asking a question. I too have been guilty of it, but I understand when I'm shot down or ignored. READ the manpages (man smb.conf, smbclient, etc.), /usr/share/doc/samba*, SEARCH the web (Google is your friend), SEARCH this mailing list (marc.theaimsgroup.com), READ the Samba website (I spend alot of time in the Documentation page), SEARCH your distro's website (e.g. RedHat.com has a GREAT docs section with Samba stuff in it), or READ one of the many fine books. I learned a TON from "Teach Yourself Samba in 24 Hours" but a possibly better book, "Using Samba 2" from O'Reilly is out this month. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do your homework before asking, else your question will get ignored and you'll burn out the experts, whose time is better spent improving Samba than answering simple questions. /dev/idal __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com
< start sarcasm > HI, My name is ANGRY MAILING LIST GUY. I am here to tell you that I don't appreciate seeing questions that are easily found within the basic documentation for the somewhat to extremely complex service that you wish to install on your server. I find it terribly taxing to have to deal with regular questions from what I consider "newbs" because my level of skill is so much higher then the rest of you. It doesn't matter that most of those questions come from people that speak English as a second or even third language, which means they might have some difficulty in understanding what I consider standard formatted sentences and manual pages. Furthermore, just because a great deal of the available online documentation is out of date, there is no reason why you plebeians shouldn't be able to infer how some the sections are configured in newer versions, even if those sections RADICALLY change how they are configured. I have had a bad day, so I am going to make sure that the rest of you all pay for me being in a bad mood. < end sarcasm > Personally, that is how I read the original poster's mailing. I have been reading this mailing list myself for a few months. While I can agree that there are many times when similar questions are posted, I have to vehemently disagree that they are "useless" questions. There has been more then one time when I have assisted someone, in a far off land, that may have had some serious issues in understanding the way that the manuals were written. Is it their fault that the structure of their native language is different then that of mine? It is no more their fault then it is my own fault for speaking differing languages. Also, is it their fault that some, if not a great deal of the available online documentation could be out of date? For instance, I recently asked about how to make a Samba BDC from a Samba PDC. Using the online documentation that came with SWAT, I NEVER would have been able to get it to work. The reason was simple, that function had changed file formats and the method of getting the SID had changed as well. If "newbs" tend to ask the same questions over and over and you don't like to see what they wrote, delete it. You don't have to respond and it's not that big of a deal to take a second to read something that you have no intention of responding positively to. You can also do what I do. Nicely answer the question and then point out a few pieces of material that could assist that "newb" in expanding their knowledge to a level closer to those of us who were once "newbs" ourselves. You may make more friends, gain respect and also flex the "muscles" within your own mind going over the little things that you might not have looked at in a little while. Regards, Robert Adkins II IT Manager/Buyer Impel Industries, Inc. 586-254-5800 -----Original Message----- From: samba-bounces+radkins=impelind.com@lists.samba.org [mailto:samba-bounces+radkins=impelind.com@lists.samba.org] On Behalf Of Chris de Vidal Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 3:09 PM To: samba@lists.samba.org Subject: [Samba] !!ATTENTION NEWBIES!! I've been reading this list for a few weeks now and I've given advice on questions that look challenging but I've deleted MANY questions like these: "How do I (easy question found in the documents)?" Though I don't count myself an expert, I've known enough experts to see that they _HATE_ it when you don't invest some time before asking a question. I too have been guilty of it, but I understand when I'm shot down or ignored. READ the manpages (man smb.conf, smbclient, etc.), /usr/share/doc/samba*, SEARCH the web (Google is your friend), SEARCH this mailing list (marc.theaimsgroup.com), READ the Samba website (I spend alot of time in the Documentation page), SEARCH your distro's website (e.g. RedHat.com has a GREAT docs section with Samba stuff in it), or READ one of the many fine books. I learned a TON from "Teach Yourself Samba in 24 Hours" but a possibly better book, "Using Samba 2" from O'Reilly is out this month. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do your homework before asking, else your question will get ignored and you'll burn out the experts, whose time is better spent improving Samba than answering simple questions. /dev/idal __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
> You can also do what I do. Nicely answer the question and then > point out a few pieces of material that could assist that "newb" in > expanding their knowledge to a level closer to those of us who were once > "newbs" ourselves. You may make more friends, gain respect and also flex > the "muscles" within your own mind going over the little things that you > might not have looked at in a little while.100% Agreeing with you ! Nice speech. -- Pierrick Brossin IT Swiss - QUARK Media House Mail Prof: pbrossin@quark.ch Mail Priv: admin@swissgeeks.com
On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Chris de Vidal wrote:> I've been reading this list for a few weeks now and > I've given advice on questions that look challenging > but I've deleted MANY questions like these:Well Chris, I to invite you to help answer more newbie questions. If you can spare that time, then please do try to help others who have not attained our level of proficiency in doing our home work before we go live. I try to answer as many questions as I can, while I do admit to putting the bulk of my effort consciously into replies that will help more adavanced users. I have spent over 6 hours per day helping people and simply can not afford more time. That means that if people like you and I do not answer those less experienced and perhaps less willing then we are not helping to raise the next generation of open source advocates.> "How do I (easy question found in the documents)?"Most people take no offense in being told where they can find the information needed - and every such response ends up feeding the search engines so that the next person who does do some home work first will stand a greater chance of finding the answer.> > Though I don't count myself an expert, I've known > enough experts to see that they _HATE_ it when you > don't invest some time before asking a question. I > too have been guilty of it, but I understand when I'm > shot down or ignored. > > READ the manpages (man smb.conf, smbclient, etc.), > /usr/share/doc/samba*, SEARCH the web (Google is your > friend), SEARCH this mailing list > (marc.theaimsgroup.com), READ the Samba website (I > spend alot of time in the Documentation page), SEARCH > your distro's website (e.g. RedHat.com has a GREAT > docs section with Samba stuff in it), or READ one of > the many fine books. I learned a TON from "Teach > Yourself Samba in 24 Hours" but a possibly better > book, "Using Samba 2" from O'Reilly is out this month. > > PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do your homework before asking, > else your question will get ignored and you'll burn > out the experts, whose time is better spent improving > Samba than answering simple questions.Sure! But let's not lose sight of how we got to where we are. Come on Newbies! - John T. -- John H Terpstra Email: jht@samba.org
On 13 Feb 2003, Pierrick Brossin <pbrossin@swissgeeks.com> wrote:> > You can also do what I do. Nicely answer the question and then > > point out a few pieces of material that could assist that "newb" in > > expanding their knowledge to a level closer to those of us who were once > > "newbs" ourselves. You may make more friends, gain respect and also flex > > the "muscles" within your own mind going over the little things that you > > might not have looked at in a little while.And please, if you see something strange or incorrect in the manual, then point it out so that it can be corrected. I think all Chris was asking for was a little respect on both sides: please do your homework before asking a question, and please treat nicely people who do ask. -- Martin
The way I see the use of this mailing list is that everybody that uses the knowledge gathered here also has the responsibility to contribute at his own level. By this I mean that I, having some Samba experience, try to answer those questions that correspond to my level of skills. I will explain how to join a win2k client to a samba hosted domain. I don't mind repeating myself every two weeks. That way questions about bugs and other more advanced things will be left for the real Gods of Samba out here. I believe in open source and I believe that despite my language barrier and my humble knowledge I can contribute my share. And as in time my knowledge will advance, I will, thanks to all the people out here, be able to contribute more and even perhaps help with the development of open source software. -------Original Message------- From: chris@devidal.tv Date: 14 februarie 2003 08:12:46 To: Martin Pool; Pierrick Brossin Cc: samba@lists.samba.org Subject: Re: [Samba] !!ATTENTION NEWBIES!! --- Martin Pool <mbp@samba.org> wrote:> I think all Chris was asking for was a little > respect on both sides: > please do your homework before asking a question, > and please treat > nicely people who do ask.In essense, yes, I was saying those very things, and offered ways I've used to answer my own Samba questions. I WAS trying to help, not cause more yelling. It's hard to inflect in email (: If you were to subscribe to my LUG's mailing list, you'd see me taking great pains to answer newbie questions. But that's a different type of channel. In here, I've asked good questions and had to repeat them a few times to be heard. There's just too many simple questions. No doubt you developers are just burnt out from the volume, and I'd much rather you debug Samba than answer "How do I join a domain?" for the 15th time. /dev/idal __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba .
> -----Original Message----- > From: John H Terpstra [mailto:jht@samba.org]> Well Chris, I to invite you to help answer more newbie > questions. If you > can spare that time, then please do try to help others who have not > attained our level of proficiency in doing our home work before we go > live.I'm reminded of something my father said to me, once: "You never really fully understand something until you've had to explain it to someone else."