On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 12:44, BeeRich <beerich-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> As for top posting, that is an old school habit.Er, no it isn''t. You young punks wouldn''t know old-school if it bit you in the diapers! Now get off my lawn! ;-) Seriously though, REAL old-school quoting is interleaved point by point, with anything irrelevant trimmed out, because that''s concise, saving on transmission time and storage space, which were expensive in old-school days. (Many of the old-school email programs wouldn''t even LET you send a message that was more than half quotes, or would at least give you a stern warning!) This also makes it much clearer exactly what point in a longish message, each point of yours is responding to. Then came AOHell, with its hordes of idiots quoting a long message in its entirety just to add "ME TOO!!!!!!!!" This got to be known as AOLing. Some old-schoolers would, as usual, just quote enough of a message that it was understood what was being replied to, and then add "/aol" rather than "Me too." Then came Outhouse, er, I mean, Outlook, with its default of top-posting. That was what the majority of *new* computer users used, and eventually became what the majority (or at least a solid plurality) used, and thus thought of as normal... brought to you by the same brilliant folks who brought you such wonders as "Windows ME", "Bob", and the annoying dancing paperclip. Neither top NOR bottom posting, in the sense of leaving the entire prior message intact, is sensible. It''s just LAZY. -Dave -- LOOKING FOR WORK! What: Ruby (on/off Rails), Python, other modern languages. Where: Northern Virginia, Washington DC (near Orange Line), and remote work. See: davearonson.com (main) * codosaur.us (code) * dare2xl.com (excellence). Specialization is for insects. (Heinlein) - Have Pun, Will Babble! (Aronson) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Nov 4, 2011, at 12:32 PM, Dave Aronson wrote:> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 12:44, BeeRich <beerich-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > >> As for top posting, that is an old school habit. > > Er, no it isn''t. You young punks wouldn''t know old-school if it bit > you in the diapers! Now get off my lawn! ;-)---- Do you feel better now? Catharsis accomplished? I personally don''t like top postings and will frequently re-arrange an e-mail if I am going to respond but seriously, there is more bandwidth wasted on this topic than the problem actually creates. If you don''t like the top posting - don''t respond. Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> On Nov 4, 2011, at 12:32 PM, Dave Aronson wrote:>> <snip nice rant>*applauds* Some people just don''t get the idea that the effort they put into their postings is a direct representation of the effort that they''re exerting in communicating a courteous message; one that demonstrates they want to help people understand their situation. On 4 November 2011 20:24, Craig White <craig.white-wmL3h9Ogt9DQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I personally don''t like top postings and will frequently re-arrange an e-mail if I am going to respondYes... that''s a good habit, and sometimes people pick up on the leadership and reply accordingly. I think it''s *always* worth replying with an correctly composed response.>but seriously, there is more bandwidth wasted on this topic than the problem actually creates.I disagree. If it takes each person who reads a badly composed message 5-10 seconds extra to scroll through to grok it (or a little longer to look through previous, possibly deleted posts to get context of an unquoted reply), that doesn''t seem like a big problem; and certainly not one worth spending a minute or two writing a "proper" message in the first place. But... ...there may be several thousand people reading the bad message, and all their time combined has just outweighed by 100 times the couple of extra minutes of composure. It''s a *big* problem - one which just *seems* insignificant. Also, it''s just plain rude - to think that saving oneself a couple of minutes is more important that the hours of time just stolen from people all around the world.> If you don''t like the top posting - don''t respond.Well now, you might have notice that there are very few responders on this list nowadays; many people decide *not* to post, for various reasons. One of my reasons for junking most messages that appear is that I certainly don''t appreciate assisting people who seem to have no interest in learning from that assistance, and taking it onboard to assist others. There are one or two people left who regularly bang their heads against the wall of dreadful (in many ways) posts, with patience I admire enormously from behind my keyboard. When those few finally give up exasperated, the Rails "community" will be even more arid. Advising them to "don''t respond" is probably not in the best long term interest of Rails. Maybe, instead, join the chorus of people who ask "please don''t top post" to add weight to this side :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Nov 5, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Michael Pavling wrote:> I disagree. If it takes each person who reads a badly composed message > 5-10 seconds extra... there may be several thousand people reading the bad message, and > all their time combined has just outweighed by 100 times the couple of > extra minutes of composure.I think he was referring to the extra effort of thousands of people reading rants about top-posting ;-) -- Scott Ribe scott_ribe-ZCQMRMivIIdUL8GK/JU1Wg@public.gmane.org http://www.elevated-dev.com/ (303) 722-0567 voice -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On 5 November 2011 21:33, Scott Ribe <scott_ribe-oLpdKesOropn0q4rP9l2pw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On Nov 5, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Michael Pavling wrote: > >> I disagree. If it takes each person who reads a badly composed message >> 5-10 seconds extra... there may be several thousand people reading the bad message, and >> all their time combined has just outweighed by 100 times the couple of >> extra minutes of composure. > > I think he was referring to the extra effort of thousands of people reading rants about top-posting ;-)gah! the irony :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 17:33, Scott Ribe <scott_ribe-oLpdKesOropn0q4rP9l2pw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I think he was referring to the extra effort of thousands of people reading rants about top-posting ;-)Hence the change of Subject line. -Dave -- LOOKING FOR WORK! What: Ruby (on/off Rails), Python, other modern languages. Where: Northern Virginia, Washington DC (near Orange Line), and remote work. See: davearonson.com (main) * codosaur.us (code) * dare2xl.com (excellence). Specialization is for insects. (Heinlein) - Have Pun, Will Babble! (Aronson) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.