Where do I put e g require ''will_paginate'' in Rails 3 environment? -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Paul Bergstrom <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote:> Where do I put e g require ''will_paginate'' in Rails 3 environment? >Are you using the gem? If the gem, just include it in the gemfile and you should be good: gem ''will_paginate'', :git => ''git://github.com/mislav/will_paginate.git'', :branch => ''rails3''> > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
David Kahn wrote in post #969813:> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Paul Bergstrom> Are you using the gem? If the gem, just include it in the gemfile and > you > should be good: > > gem ''will_paginate'', :git => > ''git://github.com/mislav/will_paginate.git'', > :branch => ''rails3''Even if it''s already installed? -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:13 AM, Paul Bergstrom <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote:> David Kahn wrote in post #969813: > > On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Paul Bergstrom > > > Are you using the gem? If the gem, just include it in the gemfile and > > you > > should be good: > > > > gem ''will_paginate'', :git => > > ''git://github.com/mislav/will_paginate.git'', > > :branch => ''rails3'' > > Even if it''s already installed? >Right... you want all your dependencies in the gemfile. I am not an expert but through experience it seems that if a gem is included there then I do not have to place ''requires''. Try yourself. Also, I would recommend that you try RVM and use gemsets. I create a new gemset for each app, that way I have a clean start for that app and fresh install of the gems. And you can also delete the gemset and start over if you run into any problems and want to round out the possibility that the issue was in your gems.> > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969811:> Where do I put e g require ''will_paginate'' in Rails 3 environment?http://gembundler.com/rails3.html -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Can I still use "require" somewhere without bundler? It''s overkill for my situation with a few apps of my own. I just want to get started with Rails 3, which hasn''t been easy. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Paul Bergstrom <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote:> Can I still use "require" somewhere without bundler? It''s overkill for > my situation with a few apps of my own. I just want to get started with > Rails 3, which hasn''t been easy. >Fighting Rails will only make Rails 3 harder, oh have I learned not to do this when not necessary. Bundler was made a first class part of Rails starting in 3, so if you are going to use Rails 3 you should use it. Its really not a big deal different than Rails 2 where you declared your gems in environment.rb. Just include your gems in bundler and run ''bundle install'' in the terminal...> > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
David Kahn wrote in post #969854:> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Paul Bergstrom > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote: >> > Fighting Rails will only make Rails 3 harder, oh have I learned not to > do > this when not necessary. Bundler was made a first class part of Rails > starting in 3, so if you are going to use Rails 3 you should use it. Its > really not a big deal different than Rails 2 where you declared your > gems in > environment.rb. Just include your gems in bundler and run ''bundle > install'' > in the terminal...Maybe it''s necessary :-) -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Paul Bergstrom <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote:> David Kahn wrote in post #969854: > > On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Paul Bergstrom > > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote: > > > > > > > Fighting Rails will only make Rails 3 harder, oh have I learned not to > > do > > this when not necessary. Bundler was made a first class part of Rails > > starting in 3, so if you are going to use Rails 3 you should use it. Its > > really not a big deal different than Rails 2 where you declared your > > gems in > > environment.rb. Just include your gems in bundler and run ''bundle > > install'' > > in the terminal... > > Maybe it''s necessary :-) >Just give a try--- I am usually pretty vocal if something really it troublesome but I have not found such with Bundler, actually I do feel like it makes my life easier -- just having clarity what is and what is not in the project.> > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969853:> Can I still use "require" somewhere without bundler? It''s overkill for > my situation with a few apps of my own. I just want to get started with > Rails 3, which hasn''t been easy.It hasn''t been easy for you because you''re trying to fight Rails! So...stop fighting Rails. Stop fighting Bundler. Learn to do things the Rails way. If you think you can improve on the Rails way, please do so -- but do so from a position of knowledge, not a position of ignorance. If you''re not willing to do that, then find another Web framework that better suits your needs. Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org Sent from my iPhone -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969862:> It hasn''t been easy for you because you''re trying to fight Rails! > So...stop fighting Rails. Stop fighting Bundler. Learn to do things > the Rails way. If you think you can improve on the Rails way, please do > so -- but do so from a position of knowledge, not a position of > ignorance. > > If you''re not willing to do that, then find another Web framework that > better suits your needs.Haven''t I ask you not to answer my posts? Why can''t you respect that? -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969888:> Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969862: > >> It hasn''t been easy for you because you''re trying to fight Rails! >> So...stop fighting Rails. Stop fighting Bundler. Learn to do things >> the Rails way. If you think you can improve on the Rails way, please do >> so -- but do so from a position of knowledge, not a position of >> ignorance. >> >> If you''re not willing to do that, then find another Web framework that >> better suits your needs. > > Haven''t I ask you not to answer my posts?I didn''t realize it was a blanket prohibition.> Why can''t you respect that?I can''t respect the idea that you get to decide who answers you when you post on an unmoderated public list. If you don''t want answers from the public, don''t post here. If you have a problem with something I said, or if you think I''m wrong, please feel free to tell me. If you want to killfile me, that''s your right too. But ad hominem invalidation is silly. Oh, wait, I can''t answer those direct questions from you. Damn. ;> Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On 21 December 2010 21:06, Marnen Laibow-Koser <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969888: >> Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969862: >> >>> It hasn''t been easy for you because you''re trying to fight Rails! >>> <snip what everyone''s telling the OP> >> >> Haven''t I ask you not to answer my posts?*ker-plonk* (the sound of an addition to my killfile :-/ ...it''s a shame really... some people just don''t seem to want help. What''s the sense in using software that declaims "convention over configuration", then ignoring conventions, and moaning the configuration is too hard?>> Why can''t you respect that? > > I can''t respect the idea that you get to decide who answers you when you > post on an unmoderated public list. If you don''t want answers from the > public, don''t post here.+1 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
David Kahn wrote in post #969861:> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Paul Bergstrom> > Just give a try--- I am usually pretty vocal if something really it > troublesome but I have not found such with Bundler, actually I do feel > like > it makes my life easier -- just having clarity what is and what is not > in > the project.I see what you mean. But let me give you my view. I had an easy life with Rails 2 but now with Rails 3 it has become more complex. I just wondered if there was a way to leave bundler out and just use require, as before. If there is, then what''s the problem? Isn''t that the easy way ahead? I can learn bundler later on if and when needed. I like simplicity. That''s why I got fond of ruby and then rails over php. But I don''t think it''s going the right way, even though I can see the need for a tool like bundler. I would prefer that Rails keep it simple but let users add tools like bundler if wanted. My setup in Rails 2 was easier. Trust me. Bundler reminds me of gem vs plugin. Do you see my thought? -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969896:> David Kahn wrote in post #969861: >> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Paul Bergstrom > >> >> Just give a try--- I am usually pretty vocal if something really it >> troublesome but I have not found such with Bundler, actually I do feel >> like >> it makes my life easier -- just having clarity what is and what is not >> in >> the project. > > I see what you mean. But let me give you my view. > > I had an easy life with Rails 2 but now with Rails 3 it has become more > complex. I just wondered if there was a way to leave bundler out and > just use require, as before. If there is, then what''s the problem? Isn''t > that the easy way ahead? I can learn bundler later on if and when > needed.Apparently there isn''t. That''s what people have been trying to tell you, and that''s what you have apparently been ignoring. Anyway, if you want to learn Rails 3, then learn it, don''t kludge around it! If, after having learned it, you think there''s a better way to do things, then do so.> > I like simplicity. That''s why I got fond of ruby and then rails over > php. But I don''t think it''s going the right way, even though I can see > the need for a tool like bundler. I would prefer that Rails keep it > simple but let users add tools like bundler if wanted. My setup in Rails > 2 was easier.No one is stopping you from continuing to use Rails 2, or from using another Web framework altogether. If Rails 3 is getting in your way, then please don''t use it. However, please invest some honest effort into learning Rails 3 -- on its own merits -- before making that decision.> Trust me.Why? :)> > Bundler reminds me of gem vs plugin. Do you see my thought?No. How about making it explicit? Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Michael Pavling wrote in post #969893:> On 21 December 2010 21:06, Marnen Laibow-Koser <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> > wrote: >> Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969888: >>> Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969862: >>> >>>> It hasn''t been easy for you because you''re trying to fight Rails! >>>> <snip what everyone''s telling the OP> >>> >>> Haven''t I ask you not to answer my posts? > > *ker-plonk* (the sound of an addition to my killfile :-/ > > ...it''s a shame really... some people just don''t seem to want help. > What''s the sense in using software that declaims "convention over > configuration", then ignoring conventions, and moaning the > configuration is too hard?Well put. Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Paul Bergstrom <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote:> David Kahn wrote in post #969861: > > On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Paul Bergstrom > > > > > Just give a try--- I am usually pretty vocal if something really it > > troublesome but I have not found such with Bundler, actually I do feel > > like > > it makes my life easier -- just having clarity what is and what is not > > in > > the project. > > I see what you mean. But let me give you my view. > > I had an easy life with Rails 2 but now with Rails 3 it has become more > complex. I just wondered if there was a way to leave bundler out and > just use require, as before. If there is, then what''s the problem? Isn''t > that the easy way ahead? I can learn bundler later on if and when > needed. > > I like simplicity. That''s why I got fond of ruby and then rails over > php. But I don''t think it''s going the right way, even though I can see > the need for a tool like bundler. I would prefer that Rails keep it > simple but let users add tools like bundler if wanted. My setup in Rails > 2 was easier. Trust me. >This is something I have thought about. I came from the .NET world for a lot of same reasons. I have been using Rails 3 for a few months intensively and I think you should give it an honest shot. There are changes and there is a learning curve but it is not that bad. My challenge is that I also took on Rspec, Cucumber, Capybara, xpath and who knows what else at the same time and this *was* painful but I am seeing that it has made me stronger. I have ended up dropping Cucumber for Steak and this has helped. Anyhow, I suspect that you will find that it just seems easier in 2 because it is what you are used to. Also... if you really want to simplify, check out developing a pure rack app or with Sinatra or the like... pretty cool stuff and you feel closer to the road ;)> Bundler reminds me of gem vs plugin. Do you see my thought? >I am probably wrong but it seems to me that plugins are and will go away as since each app has their own bundle the idea of plugins gets to be insignificant, especially if you use RVM (and RVM *is* for sure worth the effort to pick up).> > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969891:> I didn''t realize it was a blanket prohibition. > >> Why can''t you respect that? > > I can''t respect the idea that you get to decide who answers you when you > post on an unmoderated public list. If you don''t want answers from the > public, don''t post here.I only ask you to respect me as a fellow human being, asking you to behave and interact with other people in a kind, respectful and warm manner. :-) Is that too much to ask? Several times when I have asked a question you have given me a question back like "why do you want to do that?" instead of just answering my question. Once or twice is nothing but not all the time. I didn''t ask for your opinion about bundler. I asked if there is a way to require a gem but keep the gems in one place, like before. I don''t understand why that question would be so hard to understand. Why make it so complicated Marnen? I''m sure bundler is wonderful, but I could do without it. Is that ok with you? You seem like a person who get nervous when someone is not following the rules. Is that true? Is that the problem here? -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
David Kahn wrote in post #969902: [...]> I > have > ended up dropping Cucumber for Steak and this has helped.[...] Now that''s just a terrible idea. I don''t want to hijack this thread, but I''ll be happy to discuss (in a different thread) why I think Steak is fundamentally misconceived. Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
David Kahn wrote in post #969902:> Rspec, Cucumber, Capybara, xpath and who knows what else at the same > timeI get exhausted of hearing about all that stuff :-) Just kidding. I see your point. I''m kind of full with knowledge. I''m tired of always having to learn new things. Once I was eager to do so, but not anymore. I had a good life with Rails 2. Things worked well and I felt I had learned all I needed to have a good flow in my development (of my own few apps). Then came Rails 3 with some "cool new features". :-)> >> Bundler reminds me of gem vs plugin. Do you see my thought? >> > > I am probably wrong but it seems to me that plugins are and will go away > as > since each app has their own bundle the idea of plugins gets to be > insignificant, especially if you use RVM (and RVM *is* for sure worth > the > effort to pick up).I use RVM. Good for ruby. But otherwise I could be without it. It''s one of these "cool new features" that I had to get into. :-) My head is alarming "memory full". -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969903:> Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969891: > >> I didn''t realize it was a blanket prohibition. >> >>> Why can''t you respect that? >> >> I can''t respect the idea that you get to decide who answers you when you >> post on an unmoderated public list. If you don''t want answers from the >> public, don''t post here. > > I only ask you to respect me as a fellow human being, asking you to > behave and interact with other people in a kind, respectful and warm > manner. :-) Is that too much to ask?I believe I have always done that; to the extent I haven''t, I certainly apologize.> > Several times when I have asked a question you have given me a question > back like "why do you want to do that?" instead of just answering my > question. Once or twice is nothing but not all the time.It''s nothing personal. You have a tendency to ask questions on this list which betray a misunderstanding of how to get the most out of Rails. It is my usual procedure -- and, on the evidence, that of many others here -- to clarify why you''re asking for advice on something that doesn''t seem like a good idea in the first place. I am not going to just stick my head in the sand and tell you or anyone else how to implement a bad idea without first saying "this is a bad idea and here''s how to do it better". If you don''t want advice, don''t ask for it. If you ask for advice, please listen to it. Doing otherwise is not respectful to the people taking time and effort to give you the best advice we know how to give.> > I didn''t ask for your opinion about bundler. I asked if there is a way > to require a gem but keep the gems in one place, like before. I don''t > understand why that question would be so hard to understand. Why make it > so complicated Marnen?I''m not making things complicated; you are. Rails explicitly makes it easy to do things in the "Rails way", and less easy to do things that its designers consider bad. That means that it will actually be less complicated if you learn the Rails way before trying to ignore it. The Rails 3 way involves Bundler. Since it''s the Rails 3 way, you should learn it before deciding to do without it.> > I''m sure bundler is wonderful, but I could do without it.Then do without it -- after learning to use it.> Is that ok > with you?It''s not up to me.> You seem like a person who get nervous when someone is not > following the rules. Is that true? Is that the problem here?No. I pity people who choose an opinionated framework such as Rails, and then make life hard for themselves by choosing to ignore that framework''s conventions in the name of "simplicity". It''s actually simpler in most cases to learn Rails'' conventions than to fight them. Now, Rails didn''t get everything right. The core team made a wonderfully testable framework, but built terrible testing tools -- which I know because I learned Test::Unit, then discarded it. But if I thought that (say) it would be simpler to do without an ORM like ActiveRecord, I''d probably stop using Rails. Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969907:> David Kahn wrote in post #969902: > >> Rspec, Cucumber, Capybara, xpath and who knows what else at the same >> time > > I get exhausted of hearing about all that stuff :-) > > Just kidding. I see your point. I''m kind of full with knowledge. I''m > tired of always having to learn new things. Once I was eager to do so, > but not anymore.[...] Then please stick with your old configuration. Trying to learn Rails 3 and make it work just like Rails 2 is an exercise in futility. To learn new stuff, you have to *learn* *new* stuff. Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
David Kahn wrote in post #969902: Btw, thanks for the input and you effort to help. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969909:> Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969907:> > Then please stick with your old configuration. Trying to learn Rails 3 > and make it work just like Rails 2 is an exercise in futility. To learn > new stuff, you have to *learn* *new* stuff. >You just don''t get it. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969914:> Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969909: >> Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969907: > >> >> Then please stick with your old configuration. Trying to learn Rails 3 >> and make it work just like Rails 2 is an exercise in futility. To learn >> new stuff, you have to *learn* *new* stuff. >> > > > You just don''t get it.Funny, I''d say the same to you. What do you think I don''t get? Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969916:>> >> >> You just don''t get it. > > Funny, I''d say the same to you. What do you think I don''t get?How to behave. Listen to yourself, to you answers. -- Me: Can I still use "require" somewhere without bundler? -- -- You: It hasn''t been easy for you because you''re trying to fight Rails! So...stop fighting Rails. Stop fighting Bundler. Learn to do things the Rails way. If you think you can improve on the Rails way, please do so -- but do so from a position of knowledge, not a position of ignorance. If you''re not willing to do that, then find another Web framework that better suits your needs. -- -- Me: Haven''t I ask you not to answer my posts? Why can''t you respect that? (Getting this kind of answers before from you. I just had a simple question; Can I still use "require" somewhere without bundler?) -- -- You: I can''t respect the idea that you get to decide who answers you when you post on an unmoderated public list. If you don''t want answers from the public, don''t post here. If you have a problem with something I said, or if you think I''m wrong, please feel free to tell me. If you want to killfile me, that''s your right too. But ad hominem invalidation is silly. Oh, wait, I can''t answer those direct questions from you. Damn. ;> -- -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969924:> Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969916: > >>> >>> >>> You just don''t get it. >> >> Funny, I''d say the same to you. What do you think I don''t get? > > How to behave. > > Listen to yourself, to you answers.[...] I''ve written nothing that I''d consider inappropriate -- nothing that I''d have any problem receiving as a response from someone else. Obviously, your standards are different. That''s OK -- no two people think alike. I don''t much like ESR''s "How to Ask Smart Questions", but I think I''d refer you to it at this point, particularly refer you to http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#keepcool . Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
No, you can''t. On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 20:17, Marnen Laibow-Koser <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote:> Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969914: > > Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969909: > >> Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969907: > > > >> > >> Then please stick with your old configuration. Trying to learn Rails 3 > >> and make it work just like Rails 2 is an exercise in futility. To learn > >> new stuff, you have to *learn* *new* stuff. > >> > > > > > > You just don''t get it. > > Funny, I''d say the same to you. What do you think I don''t get? > > Best, > -- > Marnen Laibow-Koser > http://www.marnen.org > marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org > > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Lunks wrote in post #969933:> No, you can''t.Ok. Thanks. :-) -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Michael Pavling wrote in post #969893:> ...it''s a shame really... some people just don''t seem to want help. > What''s the sense in using software that declaims "convention over > configuration", then ignoring conventions, and moaning the > configuration is too hard?I would like help. That''s why I ask. Nothing wrong with conventions. But sometimes it''s good to challenge them. Bundler seems like a smart idea, for the most part. But for me, right now, it has made it a bit more complex.>> I can''t respect the idea that you get to decide who answers you when you >> post on an unmoderated public list. If you don''t want answers from the >> public, don''t post here. > > +1I would respect that if someone ask me. A matter of social intelligence and respect. Common sense really. :-) -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote in post #969928:> Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969924:> I''ve written nothing that I''d consider inappropriate -- nothing that I''d > have any problem receiving as a response from someone else. Obviously, > your standards are different. That''s OK -- no two people think alike.It''s the way you say it. I don''t have anything against you as a person. Thank you for your effort to help but please consider how you do it. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
If you want to require things by yourself: Gemfile: gem ''will_paginate'', :require => nil Then bundler won''t automatically require the library. It will just set proper load path to make sure the the right version of will_paginete will be loaded. You might want to add require ''will_paginate'' at the bottom of application.rb. The library will be availible in the application and rake tasks. I do not recommend it however. Robert Pankowecki http://robert.pankowecki.pl -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Robert Pankowecki wrote in post #970001:> If you want to require things by yourself: > > Gemfile: > gem ''will_paginate'', :require => nil > > Then bundler won''t automatically require the library. It will just set > proper load path to make sure the the right version of will_paginete > will be loaded. > You might want to add require ''will_paginate'' at the bottom of > application.rb. The library will be availible in the application and > rake tasks. > > I do not recommend it however. > > Robert Pankowecki > http://robert.pankowecki.plGood to know. Have I understood it correctly, that if I add gem ''will_paginate'', and just that, it will use whatever will_paginate I already have in my gem list? And what about i18n. Do I need to add that in the gemfile? Previously you didn''t have to require it. It was part of rails anyway. And as long as it was in the gem list it worked. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #969907:> Just kidding. I see your point. I''m kind of full with knowledge. I''m > tired of always having to learn new things. Once I was eager to do so, > but not anymore. > > I had a good life with Rails 2. Things worked well and I felt I had > learned all I needed to have a good flow in my development (of my own > few apps). Then came Rails 3 with some "cool new features". :-)If you have a problem learning new ways to do things, then you probably made a mistake choosing Rails. Maybe even a mistake in becoming a software developer in the first place. The only thing one can count on in this business is change. Rails changes faster than any framework I''ve ever worked with. I''m not saying that it is a bad thing. Rails 3 much improved IMHO over Rails 2 because of the changes, and Bundler is one of the best additions of all of them. Dependency management in Rails 2 and prior was turning into a nightmare. P.S. No worries. I''m not going to turn this into an argument. This will be the last post you''ll see from me on this subject. The above is intended only as advice from someone that''s been building software for a really long time. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Robert Walker wrote in post #970096:> If you have a problem learning new ways to do things, then you probably > made a mistake choosing Rails. Maybe even a mistake in becoming a > software developer in the first place.No problem at all. I like to live on the edge. Over the years I''ve become more careful and not taking leaps to fast, risking a working environment. That''s why it took me a while to try rails 3. There''s no difference between rails and unix, css, html, or php. They always evolve. And I normally like to follow to the best of my ability. I''m not a natural programmer (I think that''s what you mean). And I don''t think you have to be. Sorry but I have to say that it''s a really stupid thing to say. I have skills that you don''t and which are essential for the apps I develop. You could turn that around. Many software developers don''t have a clue about design, and the importance of design. They might be very skilled in the technical part, pure programmers, but terrible in design which is bad for the end user. I don''t judge people like that but when I get stubborn feedback from people who might be good at rails but terrible in design I can''t take them too seriously. I''m a designer and design strategist with a master of design management that has learned how to develop for the web since a long time. I''ve done many things for others but my main objective is to develop an app based on my method, that has taken me several years to create.> > The only thing one can count on in this business is change. Rails > changes faster than any framework I''ve ever worked with. I''m not saying > that it is a bad thing. Rails 3 much improved IMHO over Rails 2 because > of the changes, and Bundler is one of the best additions of all of them. > Dependency management in Rails 2 and prior was turning into a nightmare. >I''m eager to get going with Rails 3. Bundler looks good but I didn''t have nightmares with dependency management. Not at all. Not for my situation. With rails 3 it''s become more complex. It''s just a fact.> P.S. No worries. I''m not going to turn this into an argument. This will > be the last post you''ll see from me on this subject. The above is > intended only as advice from someone that''s been building software for a > really long time.And so have I. But as I said. I''m not a natural programmer. But I try to be a software developer and I think Rails is much easier to use than e g php. Hopefully it will stay that way. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Paul Bergstrom <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote:> Robert Walker wrote in post #970096: > > > If you have a problem learning new ways to do things, then you probably > > made a mistake choosing Rails. Maybe even a mistake in becoming a > > software developer in the first place. > > No problem at all. I like to live on the edge. Over the years I''ve > become more careful and not taking leaps to fast, risking a working > environment. That''s why it took me a while to try rails 3. > > There''s no difference between rails and unix, css, html, or php. They > always evolve. And I normally like to follow to the best of my ability. > > I''m not a natural programmer (I think that''s what you mean). And I don''t > think you have to be. Sorry but I have to say that it''s a really stupid > thing to say. I have skills that you don''t and which are essential for > the apps I develop. >First, I am a bit ashamed to still be following this thread after all the name calling, but it is in place of my Mexican soap opera the last couple days :) But seriously, this is a very interesting question. I have gone through a seemingly unproductive few months taking on Rails 3, 1.9.2, Cucumber, Rspec, Capybara, learning to write xpaths, Steak, Shoulda, etc... I finally took a step back in the last few weeks and thought about things and what was right and what was not. I consider myself an average programmer with above average creativity. That is why I took up Rails, to get fast and even *able* to realize my ideas which I felt were too difficult in .Net. Also the idea that I could become adept at Ruby and have a strong scripting language to do whatever. Development tools, languages, etc in general are created, developed and evolved by the top percent of people. This is good but one thing that I have realized is that I have to know where my core talents are and what makes sense to use and what not. What is empirically productive for one person may drain another. There are no studies before adoption in general -- or at best they are case studies and a question of taste and aesthetics often. I have not heard anyone bring up this question, even the fact of individual talents, abilities, learning styles, etc. as they relate to programmers and new technology. Matz is the first who I ever heard speak of ''programmer happiness'', and that endeared me a great deal. For example, I believe that every additional DSL one needs to learn is additional mental resources. Some people have those to spare and others not or prefer to put those resources on other concerns. I found Cucumber rather inefficient as the ''plain English'' was itself a DSL but it did not afford me to forget about the lower level which was also a DSL -- I still had to deal directly with web steps. This is why I have moved to Steak. I think Cucumber is great, but in the interest of my own happiness, productivity and aesthetics I made a change. I also think that every additional component which needs to be configured also eats at the time and mental resources. My live in the .NET world was like this and I would rather stick my hand in a vegomatic than go back to this. Eventhough I have kept Rspec I seriously considered going back to Test/Unit so I could cut another possible set of concerns that may or may not arise. To date I am happy where I am now. My speed is coming back and I have learned an amazing amount, and even have started to have some opinions. Just some thoughts... the challenge is to keep an open mind to the new but be able to kill off quickly that which is one''s betrayal. I can say that I have seen some very much better things in Rails 3 -- bundler is great, and I do like what they did with Active Record.> > You could turn that around. Many software developers don''t have a clue > about design, and the importance of design. They might be very skilled > in the technical part, pure programmers, but terrible in design which is > bad for the end user. I don''t judge people like that but when I get > stubborn feedback from people who might be good at rails but terrible in > design I can''t take them too seriously. > > I''m a designer and design strategist with a master of design management > that has learned how to develop for the web since a long time. I''ve done > many things for others but my main objective is to develop an app based > on my method, that has taken me several years to create. > > > > > The only thing one can count on in this business is change. Rails > > changes faster than any framework I''ve ever worked with. I''m not saying > > that it is a bad thing. Rails 3 much improved IMHO over Rails 2 because > > of the changes, and Bundler is one of the best additions of all of them. > > Dependency management in Rails 2 and prior was turning into a nightmare. > > > > I''m eager to get going with Rails 3. Bundler looks good but I didn''t > have nightmares with dependency management. Not at all. Not for my > situation. With rails 3 it''s become more complex. It''s just a fact. > > > P.S. No worries. I''m not going to turn this into an argument. This will > > be the last post you''ll see from me on this subject. The above is > > intended only as advice from someone that''s been building software for a > > really long time. > > And so have I. But as I said. I''m not a natural programmer. But I try to > be a software developer and I think Rails is much easier to use than e g > php. Hopefully it will stay that way. > > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Paul Bergstrom wrote in post #970168:> And so have I. But as I said. I''m not a natural programmer. But I try to > be a software developer and I think Rails is much easier to use than e g > php. Hopefully it will stay that way.Actually that should be web developer. A bit tired when I wrote that and missed it. I''m not into rails because of software development. Not sure why anyone would. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
David Kahn wrote in post #970173: Well said. :-) -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On 23 December 2010 23:14, Paul Bergstrom <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> David Kahn wrote in post #970173: > > Well said. :-)Please quote the text of the message you are replying to so that others can follow the thread. As I receive this on the mailing list it is not at all obvious which is post #970173, so unless I spend time tracking it down I have no Idea what you are referring to. Thanks Colin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
David Kahn wrote in post #969813:> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Paul Bergstrom > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote: > >> Where do I put e g require ''will_paginate'' in Rails 3 environment? >> > > Are you using the gem? If the gem, just include it in the gemfile and > you > should be good: > > gem ''will_paginate'', :git => > ''git://github.com/mislav/will_paginate.git'', > :branch => ''rails3''You where more right than I thought. But you only have to add: gem ''will_paginate'' Not running bundle install will then be the same as ''require''. I think. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 5:18 AM, Paul Bergstrom <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote:> David Kahn wrote in post #969813: > > On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Paul Bergstrom > > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote: > > > >> Where do I put e g require ''will_paginate'' in Rails 3 environment? > >> > > > > Are you using the gem? If the gem, just include it in the gemfile and > > you > > should be good: > > > > gem ''will_paginate'', :git => > > ''git://github.com/mislav/will_paginate.git'', > > :branch => ''rails3'' > > You where more right than I thought. But you only have to add: > > gem ''will_paginate'' > > Not running bundle install will then be the same as ''require''. I think. >Assuming you mean *now* and not *not* above, I think your analogy is reasonable :)> > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
David Kahn wrote in post #970755:> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 5:18 AM, Paul Bergstrom > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote: >> > Assuming you mean *now* and not *not* above, I think your analogy is > reasonable :)I mean don''t run bundle install and all seems to be fine. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Paul Bergstrom <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote:> David Kahn wrote in post #970755: > > On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 5:18 AM, Paul Bergstrom > > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote: > > > > > > > Assuming you mean *now* and not *not* above, I think your analogy is > > reasonable :) > > I mean don''t run bundle install and all seems to be fine. >Really?! Well, whatever works :) I''ve got my own set of rails voodoo too> > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
David Kahn wrote in post #970784:> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Paul Bergstrom > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote: > >> > Really?! Well, whatever works :) I''ve got my own set of rails voodoo too:-) -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.