Normaly the GUI guys will do the GUI stuf and layout the pages but in rails it seems that the developer dose the page layout, as the page layout is done in the VIEW with code. Have I this wrong ? Is it possible for a GUI guy to do page layout with a tool like dreamweaver or any other tool that a GUI guy will use to do page layout. And then have the developer do his bit. Please share with me your experence ? -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
If you can get the "GUI guy" to give you something in HTML & CSS, then it should be possible to separate that into a layout and action erb files, and edit them so that the fields are connected with your code. In our case, we got a JPEG picture of our new page, and had to write the HTML & CSS ourselves. At least it was a nice design. On Jun 12, 5:37 pm, Keith Tobin <rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Normaly the GUI guys will do the GUI stuf and layout the pages > but in rails it seems that the developer dose the page layout, > as the page layout is done in the VIEW with code. > > Have I this wrong ? > > Is it possible for a GUI guy to do page layout with a tool like > dreamweaver > or any other tool that a GUI guy will use to do page layout. > > And then have the developer do his bit. > > Please share with me your experence ? > -- > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.
So are we saying that each time the GUI guy changes his page one would have to do this re import ? This creates a lot of work, dos it not. Paul Lynch wrote:> If you can get the "GUI guy" to give you something in HTML & CSS, then > it should be possible to separate that into a layout and action erb > files, and edit them so that the fields are connected with your code. > > In our case, we got a JPEG picture of our new page, and had to write > the HTML & CSS ourselves. At least it was a nice design. > > On Jun 12, 5:37�pm, Keith Tobin <rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>-- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
In our case the GUI guy isn''t assigned to the project-- we just his
services on loan, so it was a one-time thing. If we had someone like
that who would be making regular changes, my inclination would be to
give him a development system and let edit the erb files there so he
could see his changes. Ideally, the code in such files would not be
so great as to make it hard for him to see the HTML he was editing.
(You can write your own helper methods, and keep the code in the erb''s
to a minimum.)
--Paul
On Jun 12, 6:12 pm, Keith Tobin
<rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:> So are we saying that each time the GUI guy changes his page
> one would have to do this re import ?
>
> This creates a lot of work, dos it not.
>
> Paul Lynch wrote:
> > If you can get the "GUI guy" to give you something in HTML
& CSS, then
> > it should be possible to separate that into a layout and action erb
> > files, and edit them so that the fields are connected with your code.
>
> > In our case, we got a JPEG picture of our new page, and had to write
> > the HTML & CSS ourselves. At least it was a nice design.
>
> > On Jun 12, 5:37 pm, Keith Tobin
<rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
>
> --
> Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.
Paul Lynch wrote:> In our case the GUI guy isn''t assigned to the project-- we just his > services on loan, so it was a one-time thing. If we had someone like > that who would be making regular changes, my inclination would be to > give him a development system and let edit the erb files there so he > could see his changes. Ideally, the code in such files would not be > so great as to make it hard for him to see the HTML he was editing. > (You can write your own helper methods, and keep the code in the erb''s > to a minimum.)Everyone''s situation is different, but in modern web application development I see at least these three roles: 1. The programmer. 2. The web developer. 3. The graphic artist. I''m not implying that the must be three different people, just three different roles. In some cases the programmer fill all three roles. This leads to function, but not typically beautiful, applications. Often two people fill these three roles where the programmer and graphic artist share some aspects of the web developer role. Let me define the roles in a little more detail as per the way I see them: 1. The programmer This is the back-end "hard-core" software developer who lives and breaths Ruby and JavaScript (in the case of Rails). 2. The web developer This is the guy who has a passion for the human computer interface. His goal is to work with both the programmer and graphic designer to produce the "perfect" user experience. He lives and breaths HTML and CSS. 3. The graphic designer This individual is a true and pure artist. They don''t think in code they think in paint and pixels, in colors and layout, in the pure art of design. In an ideal world all three roles are important in today high demand for excellence in web and web application design. In the real world there is a good deal of crossover between these roles. If you can find a designer willing, and able, to work directly with the HTML/CSS, and a programmer that is willing, and able, to work hand-in-hand with the designer then the result is typically pretty good. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
Robert Walker wrote: [...]> Everyone''s situation is different, but in modern web application > development I see at least these three roles: > > 1. The programmer. > 2. The web developer. > 3. The graphic artist.[...] This is how 37signals breaks it down. There are apparently a number of designers who are good at both 2 and 3. Personally, I''d rather be 1 and (at least some of) 2 than rely on the designer producing HTML for me -- that''s often a disaster. (It doesn''t have to be, but the designers I''ve been on projects with generally don''t really understand what makes good HTML.) If you can get a designer who can do good HTML, then that person is probably smart enough to learn at least enough Ruby to produce the little bit of ERb necessary for views, or at least to pop it into the appropriate place once the programmer supplies it. Or you could use something like Amrita or Kwartz (although these don''t work with Rails 2 yet), where all the Ruby is in a separate CSS-like file and the template is pure HTML. However, DHH has made the point that this may not be any benefit for Rails, because pages are often chopped up into partials in nonobvious ways that a designer really shouldn''t care about. It really depends on the project and your talent pool, I think. Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
great definitions, but don''t javascript be a web developer''s function? and, what would be a web master? =D On Jun 12, 8:03 pm, Robert Walker <rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Paul Lynch wrote: > > In our case the GUI guy isn''t assigned to the project-- we just his > > services on loan, so it was a one-time thing. If we had someone like > > that who would be making regular changes, my inclination would be to > > give him a development system and let edit the erb files there so he > > could see his changes. Ideally, the code in such files would not be > > so great as to make it hard for him to see the HTML he was editing. > > (You can write your own helper methods, and keep the code in the erb''s > > to a minimum.) > > Everyone''s situation is different, but in modern web application > development I see at least these three roles: > > 1. The programmer. > 2. The web developer. > 3. The graphic artist. > > I''m not implying that the must be three different people, just three > different roles. In some cases the programmer fill all three roles. This > leads to function, but not typically beautiful, applications. > > Often two people fill these three roles where the programmer and graphic > artist share some aspects of the web developer role. > > Let me define the roles in a little more detail as per the way I see > them: > > 1. The programmer > This is the back-end "hard-core" software developer who lives and > breaths Ruby and JavaScript (in the case of Rails). > > 2. The web developer > This is the guy who has a passion for the human computer interface. His > goal is to work with both the programmer and graphic designer to produce > the "perfect" user experience. He lives and breaths HTML and CSS. > > 3. The graphic designer > This individual is a true and pure artist. They don''t think in code they > think in paint and pixels, in colors and layout, in the pure art of > design. > > In an ideal world all three roles are important in today high demand for > excellence in web and web application design. In the real world there is > a good deal of crossover between these roles. If you can find a designer > willing, and able, to work directly with the HTML/CSS, and a programmer > that is willing, and able, to work hand-in-hand with the designer then > the result is typically pretty good. > -- > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:23 PM, tivrfoa<lescoutinhovr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > great definitions, but don''t javascript be a web developer''s function?I''d say strictly client-side JS would be part of role 2, AJAX bridges 1 and 2.> and, what would be a web master? =D"webmaster", one word like "postmaster" is a now deprecated term from back in the day -- no, not that ''the day'', the one before :-) -- and meant you did 1+2+3 plus IA + system admin + explaining to people what the heck this "world wide web" stuff was + answering emails to "webmaster-hcDgGtZH8xNBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org" + ..... FWIW, -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org