I curious how everyone here learned Ruby on Rails? Screencasts? Books? Tutorials? Just playing with it? Classes? Mentor? Blogs? Divine knowledge? Other? This should be interesting. -Adam --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Adam - On 11-May-08, at 8:56 PM, Adam wrote:> > I curious how everyone here learned Ruby on Rails? > > Screencasts? > Books? > Tutorials? > Just playing with it? > Classes? > Mentor? > Blogs? > Divine knowledge? > Other? > > This should be interesting. > > -Adamdo --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Coded a blog in PHP and a friend showed me the infamous 15-minute rails blog tutorial (now outdated). I coded the blog in Rails and I was amazed at what it does. On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Jodi Showers <jodi-BOB1p6JRLoAV+D8aMU/kSg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Adam - > > On 11-May-08, at 8:56 PM, Adam wrote: > > > > > I curious how everyone here learned Ruby on Rails? > > > > Screencasts? > > Books? > > Tutorials? > > Just playing with it? > > Classes? > > Mentor? > > Blogs? > > Divine knowledge? > > Other? > > > > This should be interesting. > > > > -Adam > > do > > > >-- Ryan Bigg http://www.frozenplague.net Feel free to add me to MSN and/or GTalk as this email. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Adam wrote:> I curious how everyone here learned Ruby on Rails? > > Screencasts? > Books? > Tutorials? > Just playing with it? > Classes? > Mentor? > Blogs? > Divine knowledge? > Other? > > This should be interesting. > > -AdamScreencasts? Books? Tutorials? Just playing with it? Blogs? Still learning.... always learning. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I followed a few tutorials and screencasts. They gave me a little sample of the power of Rails, but they were of more promotional value to me than education. I purchased and read the first several chapters of Agile Web Development with Rails. That really demonstrated the speed with which someone who knows how to use Rails can make useful things happen. It did not, for me, really guide me. I''m sure it was great for a lot of people, but it didn''t talk to me the way the next book did. RailsSpace was a fantastic book. That''s the one that really taught me Rails. Even the Rough Cuts version, which I bought in PDF form, was fantastic. It wasn''t just the normal content of the book that was so helpful, but some of the commentary and special sauce the authors provided. I did a couple of production sites following closely the methods from RailsSpace. The actual full-site development, along with the fantastic book, gave me a good solid understanding of Rails. That being said, there''s still a TON for me to learn about Rails (and I get frustrated at times at the difficulty in finding answers to some of my questions). I do wish that Rails had an active IRC group like Plone does. The Plone IRC channel is awesome. That''s a meandering answer :), so in summary I suggest "get the book RailsSpace", and probably also get the book "Agile Web Development with Rails". On May 11, 10:33 pm, Andrew Skegg <rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Adam wrote: > > I curious how everyone here learned Ruby on Rails? > > > Screencasts? > > Books? > > Tutorials? > > Just playing with it? > > Classes? > > Mentor? > > Blogs? > > Divine knowledge? > > Other? > > > This should be interesting. > > > -Adam > > Screencasts? > Books? > Tutorials? > Just playing with it? > Blogs? > > Still learning.... always learning. > -- > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
i applied for a job in the internet business (after being an application developer with experience in Pascal, VB, C++ and basics in HTML & JS) send them an email, was asked if i knew Ruby on Rails (i didn''t) got the job anyway and started learning by doing (my boss being in the US for the first three weeks i started learning, so couldn''t help me in that time), following some tutorials and books but then had to jump into real world programming very fast to get a job done for a customer. had my first web-app online after around two months i was lucky of course, since working with experienced programmers helps a lot with the "best practices" part and doing things the Rails way. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Hi -- On Sun, 11 May 2008, Adam wrote:> > I curious how everyone here learned Ruby on Rails? > > Screencasts? > Books?Yes to books -- specifically, writing one :-) Believe me, you learn a ton doing that. Same with developing training materials and curriculum. It''s not just a brain-dump; you really have to study the stuff and think about it a lot.> Tutorials? > Just playing with it?Yes to both.> Classes? > Mentor?Re: classes, see above about developing training materials. Doing the actual training is also an on-going learning process. (If it were just a brain-dump, I''d be bored to death with it by now, which I''m not.) No single mentor but lots of discussion and exchange with friends and colleagues involved in learning and developing Rails and Rails apps. I think we''ve all benefited from the availability of a lot of people.> Blogs?Yes.> Divine knowledge? > Other?Answering questions and reading other people''s answers on mailing lists. David -- Rails training from David A. Black and Ruby Power and Light: INTRO TO RAILS June 9-12 Berlin ADVANCING WITH RAILS June 16-19 Berlin INTRO TO RAILS June 24-27 London (Skills Matter) See http://www.rubypal.com for details and updates! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Well, if David won''t pimp his book "Ruby For Rails", I will. :) It was my first book in this area and a great one at that. Getting to know ruby closely before doing the hard-core rails stuff was great for me. Then, get yourself "The Rails Way" by Obie Fernandez et al. RailsSpace is also spot on. And don''t forget http://railscasts.com and http://peepcode.com - invaluable advice from the masters. George --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Adam wrote:> Other?Many feeb attempts, over ~10 years, to build gee-whiz websites using pathetically inferior tools, followed by building a nice website from scratch using raw Ruby! -- Phlip --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
By: - reading (AWDR2, tutorials) - watching (RailsCasts, Bala Paranj) - coding - discussing (camps, this list). Cheers, Sazima On May 11, 9:56 pm, Adam <coolbeansdud...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I curious how everyone here learned Ruby on Rails? > > Screencasts? > Books? > Tutorials? > Just playing with it? > Classes? > Mentor? > Blogs? > Divine knowledge? > Other? > > This should be interesting. > > -Adam--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> i applied for a job in the internet business (after being an application > developer with experience in Pascal, VB, C++ and basics in HTML & JS) > send them an email, was asked if i knew Ruby on Rails (i didn''t) > got the job anyway and started learning by doingTell that to my bosses. We currently specialize in hiring PhP coders and teaching them on the job via pair-programming. So another bullet point for Adam is: - pairing! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
The book Agile web development with rails is great. I''m reading it as of right now after many frustrated attempts with the free tutorials around the web. The thing you have to be careful about is that rails 2.0 is quite different from the 1.x version the tutorials are usually written against. So I had tons of problems going through the tutorials since I like to always download the latest and greatest of anything. The free stuff rarely mentions about the rail version differences. Also if you''re working on Windows. Download InstantRails. It''ll get you up and running in no time. I never imagined building a shopping cart in a couple days. And I''m a full-time working mom. Adam wrote:> I curious how everyone here learned Ruby on Rails? > > Screencasts? > Books? > Tutorials? > Just playing with it? > Classes? > Mentor? > Blogs? > Divine knowledge? > Other? > > This should be interesting. > > -Adam--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Adam wrote:> I curious how everyone here learned Ruby on Rails?Started with an off-hand comment by one of our software architects about "programming by convention" and "Ruby on Rails"... Then a tutorial from the web. Followed by an "Oh cool..." Then AWDWR in Beta PDF... then 2 more books, and lots of sleep-deprivation. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> Adam wrote: > > I curious how everyone here learned Ruby on Rails?The first book I bought was Ruby for Rails by Black and as much as it is a good book, it was just over my head for someone that never touched either. I then decided to build a site with rails and used Beginning Ruby on Rails E-Commerce and learnt by doing. I since also bought AWDWR, Rails Space, Learning Ruby and The Ruby Way to read and use as well. Also, many people have helped me here and other forums when I had some troubles. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> The first book I bought was Ruby for Rails by Black and as much as it > is a good book, it was just over my head for someone that never > touched either.I''m glad someone mentioned this book. Its the first Rails book I read as well. I think this is the best book to learn a little introductory Ruby in the context of Rails. Its a poor book for learning Rails itself (AWDWR is much better for that) but its pretty good at teaching you Ruby without overwhelming you. A huge part of the book is actually learning Ruby. At times it was even frustrating b/c I wanted to learn something about Rails and I was running of pages. Most of the Ruby books I have read are really overwhelming. IMO you can do plenty with RoR and only know the key 20% features of the language. So I recommend a solid Ruby intro book plus AWDWR. Rails Way is also very good but not for beginners. Sean --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Getting a job in Rails and them teaching you more as you go is always good too. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Phlip <phlip2005-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Tell that to my bosses. We currently specialize in hiring PhP coders and > teaching them on the job via pair-programming.Specialize? That''s hilarious. Someone who can''t even teach themselves something as simple, well documented, and well commented as PHP should probably consider a career in something other than software development. Being a programmer means being able to solve problems, with teaching yourself new concepts, almost daily, being the very least of that set of problems. -- Greg Donald http://destiney.com/ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On May 13, 12:18 am, "Greg Donald" <gdon...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Someone who can''t even teach themselves something as simple, well > documented, and well commented as PHP [...]I think he meant hire PHP programmers and train them up in RoR. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Hi -- On Mon, 12 May 2008, schof wrote:> >> The first book I bought was Ruby for Rails by Black and as much as it >> is a good book, it was just over my head for someone that never >> touched either. > > I''m glad someone mentioned this book. Its the first Rails book I read > as well. I think this is the best book to learn a little introductory > Ruby in the context of Rails. Its a poor book for learning Rails > itself (AWDWR is much better for that) but its pretty good at teaching > you Ruby without overwhelming you. > > A huge part of the book is actually learning Ruby. At times it was > even frustrating b/c I wanted to learn something about Rails and I was > running of pages. Most of the Ruby books I have read are really > overwhelming. IMO you can do plenty with RoR and only know the key > 20% features of the language.Do you know the other 80% thoroughly enough to be confident about that? :-) BTW I agree with you that R4R isn''t a Rails manual. I might word it differently than you did :-) But it definitely isn''t supposed to be, and never was meant to be, anyone''s one and only Rails guide. People have gotten lots of different mileage out of it but on the whole I get the impression that its sweet spot for a lot of people is as a second book. Or maybe a 1.5th book :-) David -- Rails training from David A. Black and Ruby Power and Light: INTRO TO RAILS June 9-12 Berlin ADVANCING WITH RAILS June 16-19 Berlin INTRO TO RAILS June 24-27 London (Skills Matter) See http://www.rubypal.com for details and updates! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> Do you know the other80% thoroughly enough to be confident about > that? :-)I guess I don''t know what I don''t know so its hard to say. :-) My point is only that while I constantly find myself learning more about Ruby each day, I am still very productive in Rails. IMO if you tried to pick up one of those massive Ruby language books (The Ruby Way in particular but also Pickaxe) then you could find yourself a little bit overwhelmed.> BTW I agree with you that R4R isn''t a Rails manual. I might word it > differently than you did :-) But it definitely isn''t supposed to be, > and never was meant to be, anyone''s one and only Rails guide. People > have gotten lots of different mileage out of it but on the whole I get > the impression that its sweet spot for a lot of people is as a second > book. Or maybe a 1.5th book :-)I didn''t suggest that it was supposed to be a complete guide to Rails. That''s exactly why I''m recommending people buy your book to learn just the right amount of Ruby and then AWDWR to learn Rails in detail. I''m actually a fan of the book so hopefully that came across in my earlier post.> DavidSean --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 13 May 2008, at 16:49, schof wrote:> >> Do you know the other80% thoroughly enough to be confident about >> that? :-) > > I guess I don''t know what I don''t know so its hard to say. :-) My > point is only that while I constantly find myself learning more about > Ruby each day, I am still very productive in Rails. IMO if you tried > to pick up one of those massive Ruby language books (The Ruby Way in > particular but also Pickaxe) then you could find yourself a little bit > overwhelmed.The pickaxe is pretty easy going I thought. You only need to read the first chunk down, no-one is going to plough through the standard library reference cover to cover. The danger of not fully grasping a language like ruby that has quite a lot of subtleties is that (especially with a framework like rails that tends to use them) is that you could get yourself horribly confused when things go wrong and just end up stabbing around in the dark. (and in general when debugging and so on it''s really important to understand exactly what''s going on) Fred> > >> BTW I agree with you that R4R isn''t a Rails manual. I might word it >> differently than you did :-) But it definitely isn''t supposed to be, >> and never was meant to be, anyone''s one and only Rails guide. People >> have gotten lots of different mileage out of it but on the whole I >> get >> the impression that its sweet spot for a lot of people is as a second >> book. Or maybe a 1.5th book :-) > > I didn''t suggest that it was supposed to be a complete guide to > Rails. That''s exactly why I''m recommending people buy your book to > learn just the right amount of Ruby and then AWDWR to learn Rails in > detail. I''m actually a fan of the book so hopefully that came across > in my earlier post. > >> David > > Sean > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Frederick Cheung wrote: The danger of not fully grasping a language like ruby that has quite a lot of subtleties is that (especially with a framework like rails that tends to use them) is that you could get yourself horribly confused when things go wrong and just end up stabbing around in the dark. (and in general when debugging and so on it''s really important to understand exactly what''s going on) What? You mean ''this \n string'' and "this \n string" aren''t the same?!? ;) -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> The pickaxe is pretty easy going I thought. You only need to read the > first chunk down, no-one is going to plough through the standard > library reference cover to cover.Pickaxe is fine but IMO its better as a reference (although in fairness I learned quite a bit of Ruby before I picked it up.)> The danger of not fully grasping a > language like ruby that has quite a lot of subtleties is that > (especially with a framework like rails that tends to use them) is > that you could get yourself horribly confused when things go wrong and > just end up stabbing around in the dark. (and in general when > debugging and so on it''s really important to understand exactly what''s > going on)Please don''t take the 20% number too literally. My point was only that you do not need to know the language cold before doing productive things in Rails. I probably knew more then 20% of Ruby and I also had a very solid foundation in MVC before I jumped into Rails. Of course a solid understanding of Ruby is necessary to ultimately be successful in Rails. Different people have different learning styles. I enjoyed learning Ruby by doing a lot of examination of the Rails source code itself as well as some of the more interesting plugins. Every time I found that I didn''t understand something then I would go to Pickaxe or whatever and read up on it.> FredSean --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Dave Rothlisberger wrote:> > Someone who can''t even teach themselves something as simple, well > > documented, and well commented as PHP [...]> I think he meant hire PHP programmers and train them up in RoR.We also require, however, certain minimum standards in the area of reading comprehension... -- Phlip --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Hi -- On Tue, 13 May 2008, schof wrote:> >> Do you know the other80% thoroughly enough to be confident about >> that? :-) > > I guess I don''t know what I don''t know so its hard to say. :-) My > point is only that while I constantly find myself learning more about > Ruby each day, I am still very productive in Rails. IMO if you tried > to pick up one of those massive Ruby language books (The Ruby Way in > particular but also Pickaxe) then you could find yourself a little bit > overwhelmed. > >> BTW I agree with you that R4R isn''t a Rails manual. I might word it >> differently than you did :-) But it definitely isn''t supposed to be, >> and never was meant to be, anyone''s one and only Rails guide. People >> have gotten lots of different mileage out of it but on the whole I get >> the impression that its sweet spot for a lot of people is as a second >> book. Or maybe a 1.5th book :-) > > I didn''t suggest that it was supposed to be a complete guide to > Rails.I understood; that''s what I meant when I said I agree with you :-) My "it isn''t supposed to be" was just amplifying that point.> That''s exactly why I''m recommending people buy your book to > learn just the right amount of Ruby and then AWDWR to learn Rails in > detail. I''m actually a fan of the book so hopefully that came across > in my earlier post.It did, and I appreciate it. David -- Rails training from David A. Black and Ruby Power and Light: INTRO TO RAILS June 9-12 Berlin ADVANCING WITH RAILS June 16-19 Berlin INTRO TO RAILS June 24-27 London (Skills Matter) See http://www.rubypal.com for details and updates! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
After reading a few of these comments, I''m reminded of my journey, and I think there''s two very different things to distinguish: learning how to program, and learning Ruby/Rails as an additional set of tools to use. The orginal poster wasn''t specific about whether the "learner" was new to programming. My first programming was AppleSoft in 1981. I immediately jumped into Assembly Language after that, and the first thing I remember about that being difficult was all the new players: CPU codes, assembler codes, compiler, editor macros, ROM routines. AppleSoft, with the exceptions of a few DOS commands was pretty much a self contained environment. The hard part wasn''t the assebly language itself, it was in reading examples and figuring out which player was responsible for which lines of code. Of course back then, I was buying the equivalent of $50 books just because 20 pages were different than the rest of my books. The internet is awesome!! Anyway... HTML is like AppleSoft in being self contained. One can learn that and get a lot done with nothing else (not even CSS). If one has done HTML and maybe some rudimentary CSS, the leap to Rails (or any web framework) is enormous. Inherently in a "professional" environment like that you''re thrust into the added layers of advanced CSS, Javascript, Ruby, Rails, using Terminal commands to even get the parts installed, and it isn''t long before you have to know a little Apache etc. To me _that_ is what gets overwhelming. I''ve been doing OO, framework-driven, high-security intranet apps with Lasso for many years now, but switching to Rails was even a bit overwhelming given all the new players: Ruby, Rails, Gems, Rake, mongrel, monit to keep mongrel/Rails in line, etc. To even get a teeny bit of Rails working reliably and securely takes a large effort in support structure. Compared to Lasso''s turn-key environemnt, it can kind of nuke all the claimed productivity gains for a long time until all these peripheral pieces are absorbed as well. How did I learn Rails? I had to study Ruby first. Rails'' interpretation of "beautiful" code made no sense to me at all until I understood Ruby. Then I could understand why certain Rail''s aesthetics were chosen. I used the two Pragmatic books to start with (I absorb books like air, so the more the better). And I now have Ruby Way, Rails Way, and some others as references too. I do read them cove to cover so I know what''s in there, and then I crack ''em open several times a day to when I find myself in new territory. Without a doubt blogs are a huge help because sometimes you just don''t know how to ask the question, so googling helps find jargon, which helps form better questions, which ultimately helps me even use the books better. No doubt that a combination of book, blog, and talk lists are essential to getting up to speed quickly. I only used the pickaxe demo up to a certain point. As soon as I could figure out how to put together some pages, then I explored with all kinds of variation of that and wrote an indepth discovery of assembling views, templates, partials, and layouts http:// www.railsdev.ws/blog/3/modular-page-assembly-in-rails/ After that I explored ActiveRecord and in particular, validations. Didn''t like the defaults, so wrote an extensive custom validations library http://www.railsdev.ws/blog/11/custom-validations-in-rails/ I tend to explore in layers. Of course one has to do some cross- cutting tracers to get anything done, but once I get functional, I tend to build up depth by layers. Explore views to the nth, then explore validations to the nth, then Ajax to the nth, then error handling, etc, etc. This way I dont write too much crappy code, just incomplete code which I find much easier and faster to add to/ refactor as I build a real application. Oops. sorry, kind of long winded... -- gw --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---