I am unable to get ActiveRecord session support to work under 2.x against a SQL Server database. I''m starting to wonder if anyone is running 2.x against SQL Server? Is anyone running under the following configuration: Rails 2.x SQL Server 2000 DB (using AR adapter in ODBC mode) AR store for ActionController session store. I''d like to chat with you if you are. Thanks, Wes -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
hey Wes, I will be running against a sql server 2000 or 2005, but I am still in development. So I will keep an eye out for any information that you find out. Thanks, Rob On Mar 14, 2:36 pm, Wes Gamble <rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I am unable to get ActiveRecord session support to work under 2.x > against a SQL Server database. I''m starting to wonder if anyone is > running 2.x against SQL Server? > > Is anyone running under the following configuration: > > Rails 2.x > SQL Server 2000 DB (using AR adapter in ODBC mode) > AR store for ActionController session store. > > I''d like to chat with you if you are. > > Thanks, > Wes > -- > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I develop against MS SQL Server 2000 db''s all the time. My company has a whole bunch of legacy db''s that are SQL Server 2000 db''s. So far, I have not had a problem with the SQL Server AR adapter, with FreeTDS, in ODBC mode with Rails 2.x. But, then again, we don''t do database session store. We use the Rails 2.x default cookie based session store. So, you may have uncovered a bug. However, that seems unlikely. The SQL Server AR adapter was around before Rails 2.x. And, prior to Rails 2.x, I was using db session store. The problems I do run into are not really with AR or SQL Server. But, rather, I have to deal with a lot of legacy/non-Rails-esque database designs. Things like non-surrogate PK''s, composite PK''s, weird FK relationships, using PK''s that contain periods and "@''s" . . . just about every weird thing you can think of . . . I''ve come across. The good thing is that so far, I have been able find workarounds for all these situations. If you can be a little bit more specific with you problem, maybe post some error messages or something, I would be happy to help you out. On Mar 14, 4:36 pm, Wes Gamble <rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I am unable to get ActiveRecord session support to work under 2.x > against a SQL Server database. I''m starting to wonder if anyone is > running 2.x against SQL Server? > > Is anyone running under the following configuration: > > Rails 2.x > SQL Server 2000 DB (using AR adapter in ODBC mode) > AR store for ActionController session store. > > I''d like to chat with you if you are. > > Thanks, > Wes > -- > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Wes Gamble
2008-Mar-14 22:33 UTC
Re: Is anyone running Rails 2.x against a MS SQL Server DB?
Well, I''ve done some digging into the guts of the active record store (actionpack-2.0.2\lib\action_controller\session\active_record_store.rb). I''ve verified the following: 0) Nothing is being saved to my session table in the DB. 1) The update method is being called, which in turn attempts to call @session.save. Nothing happens when the save method is called (whichever method it is), and so my session record is not being saved. 2) The standard save method in AR::Base is not being called. I am unable to figure out where the "save" method that''s being called actually lives. 3) The session object is a CGI::Session::ActiveRecordStore::Session class and it is a descendent of AR::Base. (Is there a way to figure out which method is being called programmatically, without manually analyzing the inheritance tree of classes and/or modules?) So far, this evidence is internally consistent. If AR::Base.save is not being called on this object, then the session won''t be saved. But the question is what happens in this method in active_record_store.rb: def update if @session ActiveRecord::Base.silence { @session.save } end end ? What is @session.save calling? BTW, I''ve already gone through the exercise of removing the ActiveRecord::Base.silence block and doing @session.save! instead in order to see an exception get raised. I see nothing when I do that. It''s as though the save method is empty somewhere and does nothing. Thanks for any help, Wes -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Mikel Lindsaar
2008-Mar-15 04:46 UTC
Re: Is anyone running Rails 2.x against a MS SQL Server DB?
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Wes Gamble <rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Well, I''ve done some digging into the guts of the active record store > (actionpack-2.0.2\lib\action_controller\session\active_record_store.rb). > > It''s as though the save method is empty somewhere and does nothing.I used (don''t any more) MS Sql Server using session store. Double check your table permissions on the SQL Server, maybe something is funky here. Try going into the console and "Session.new" set some param and save it, see if it works. Try using save! instead of save in the console test to raise an exception on failed save. What does your test.log say? Give us more details :) Mikel --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Wes Gamble
2008-Mar-15 06:30 UTC
Re: Is anyone running Rails 2.x against a MS SQL Server DB?
Here is some script/console output. We see that the session is in fact an ActiveRecord object, hooked up to the sessions table, but that saving the session appears to do nothing. No data end up in the database, and notice how session.new_record? is still true after the save. Thanks, Wes C:\eclipse\workspace\eSimplyOnlineRails>ruby script/console Loading development environment (Rails 2.0.2)>> session = CGI::Session::ActiveRecordStore::Session.new=> #<CGI::Session::ActiveRecordStore::Session id: nil, session_id: nil, data: ni l, updated_at: nil>>> session.is_a?(ActiveRecord::Base)=> true>> session.class.table_name=> "sessions">> session.new_record?=> true>> session[:test_key] = 3=> 3>> session.save=> []>> session.save!=> []>> session.new_record?=> true>> session[:test_key]=> 3 -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Mikel Lindsaar
2008-Mar-15 06:32 UTC
Re: Is anyone running Rails 2.x against a MS SQL Server DB?
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 5:30 PM, Wes Gamble <rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Here is some script/console output. We see that the session is in fact > an ActiveRecord object, hooked up to the sessions table, but that saving > the session appears to do nothing. No data end up in the database, and > notice how session.new_record? is still true after the save.Weird, What does your test / development log say about these actions? Mikel --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Wes Gamble
2008-Mar-15 07:01 UTC
Re: Is anyone running Rails 2.x against a MS SQL Server DB?
Here are the script/console actions: C:\eclipse\workspace\eSimplyOnlineRails>ruby script/console Loading development environment (Rails 2.0.2)>> session = CGI::Session::ActiveRecordStore::Session.new=> #<CGI::Session::ActiveRecordStore::Session id: nil, session_id: nil, data: ni l, created_at: nil, updated_at: nil>>> session.new_record?=> true>> session[:test_key] = 3=> 3>> session.save=> []>> session.save!=> [] and here are the entries in the development.log file (note that all of this is output on the instantiation of the session, nothing gets written to the log after that). [4;36;1mCGI::Session::ActiveRecordStore::Session Columns (0.000000) [0m [0;1m SELECT cols.COLUMN_NAME as ColName, cols.COLUMN_DEFAULT as DefaultValue, cols.NUMERIC_SCALE as numeric_scale, cols.NUMERIC_PRECISION as numeric_precision, cols.DATA_TYPE as ColType, cols.IS_NULLABLE As IsNullable, COL_LENGTH(cols.TABLE_NAME, cols.COLUMN_NAME) as Length, COLUMNPROPERTY(OBJECT_ID(cols.TABLE_NAME), cols.COLUMN_NAME, ''IsIdentity'') as IsIdentity, cols.NUMERIC_SCALE as Scale, cols.ORDINAL_POSITION as Position FROM INFORMATION_SCHEMA.COLUMNS cols WHERE cols.TABLE_NAME = ''sessions'' ORDER BY cols.ORDINAL_POSITION [0m MemCache Get (0.020000) parse_tree_refresh_times MemCache Get (0.000000) list_data_refresh_times [4;36;1mCGI::Session::ActiveRecordStore::Session Columns (0.000000) [0m [0;1m SELECT cols.COLUMN_NAME as ColName, cols.COLUMN_DEFAULT as DefaultValue, cols.NUMERIC_SCALE as numeric_scale, cols.NUMERIC_PRECISION as numeric_precision, cols.DATA_TYPE as ColType, cols.IS_NULLABLE As IsNullable, COL_LENGTH(cols.TABLE_NAME, cols.COLUMN_NAME) as Length, COLUMNPROPERTY(OBJECT_ID(cols.TABLE_NAME), cols.COLUMN_NAME, ''IsIdentity'') as IsIdentity, cols.NUMERIC_SCALE as Scale, cols.ORDINAL_POSITION as Position FROM INFORMATION_SCHEMA.COLUMNS cols WHERE cols.TABLE_NAME = ''sessions'' ORDER BY cols.ORDINAL_POSITION [0m MemCache Get (0.010000) parse_tree_refresh_times MemCache Get (0.000000) list_data_refresh_times [4;36;1mCGI::Session::ActiveRecordStore::Session Columns (0.010000) [0m [0;1m SELECT cols.COLUMN_NAME as ColName, cols.COLUMN_DEFAULT as DefaultValue, cols.NUMERIC_SCALE as numeric_scale, cols.NUMERIC_PRECISION as numeric_precision, cols.DATA_TYPE as ColType, cols.IS_NULLABLE As IsNullable, COL_LENGTH(cols.TABLE_NAME, cols.COLUMN_NAME) as Length, COLUMNPROPERTY(OBJECT_ID(cols.TABLE_NAME), cols.COLUMN_NAME, ''IsIdentity'') as IsIdentity, cols.NUMERIC_SCALE as Scale, cols.ORDINAL_POSITION as Position FROM INFORMATION_SCHEMA.COLUMNS cols WHERE cols.TABLE_NAME = ''sessions'' ORDER BY cols.ORDINAL_POSITION [0m Wes -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Mikel Lindsaar
2008-Mar-15 07:58 UTC
Re: Is anyone running Rails 2.x against a MS SQL Server DB?
> and here are the entries in the development.log file (note that all of > this is output on the instantiation of the session, nothing gets written > to the log after that).On windows I have sometimes had that the server won''t write to the log file if it gets too full sometimes and definately won''t if you have say another console or server open. Close all your servers and consoles that could be writing to development.log. Delete or move the development.log and try again and see if there is any more output.... Mikel --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Wes Gamble
2008-Mar-16 08:02 UTC
Re: Is anyone running Rails 2.x against a MS SQL Server DB?
Some more information: In an attempt to move my application configuration out of the picture, I generated a brand-new Rails project in 2.0.2 against SQL Server using ODBC mode for the adapter. (database.yml below) development: adapter: sqlserver mode: odbc username: reference password: reference dsn: reference I created the schema_info table, and generated the sessions migration using rake db:sessions:create, and ran it. So there are simply 2 tables in my database, schema_info, and sessions. My environment.rb has config.action_controller.session_store = :active_record_store set. Here is the transcript of a script/console session that attempts to save a session. C:\eclipse\workspace\Rails_2.0.2_Reference>ruby script/console Loading development environment (Rails 2.0.2)>> session = CGI::Session::ActiveRecordStore::Session.new=> #<CGI::Session::ActiveRecordStore::Session id: nil, session_id: nil, data: ni l, created_at: nil, updated_at: nil>>> session[:test_key] =3=> 3>> session.save!ActiveRecord::RecordNotSaved: ActiveRecord::RecordNotSaved from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-2.0.2/lib/active_record /base.rb:1980:in `save_without_validation!'' from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-2.0.2/lib/active_record /validations.rb:944:in `save_without_transactions!'' from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-2.0.2/lib/active_record /transactions.rb:112:in `save!'' from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-2.0.2/lib/active_record /connection_adapters/abstract/database_statements.rb:66:in `transaction'' from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-2.0.2/lib/active_record /transactions.rb:80:in `transaction'' from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-2.0.2/lib/active_record /transactions.rb:100:in `transaction'' from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-2.0.2/lib/active_record /transactions.rb:112:in `save!'' from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-2.0.2/lib/active_record /transactions.rb:120:in `rollback_active_record_state!'' from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-2.0.2/lib/active_record /transactions.rb:112:in `save!'' from (irb):3 The reason this appears to fail is that in this method in callbacks.rb, the call to "callback(:before_save)" returns false. create_or_update_with_callbacks then returns false to AR::Base.save_without_validation! which then raises the RecordNotSaved exception def create_or_update_with_callbacks #:nodoc: return false if callback(:before_save) == false result = create_or_update_without_callbacks callback(:after_save) result end While this may be useful, it is not totally related to my original issue, since I am unable to verify that the save method in AR::Base is being called when I attempt to save the session in my application. What I''ve just described above in a default app. is definitely going through the expected AR::Base.save code. Having said that though, I feel like this cast aspersions on whether the AR session store works in SQL Server at all. Can someone generate a brand-new project, and see if they can get a session to save using the AR store against SQL Server via ODBC? Thanks, Wes -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Luke Pearce
2008-Mar-17 18:15 UTC
Re: Is anyone running Rails 2.x against a MS SQL Server DB?
I''m running 2.x against 2005, and all seems to be working fine. I''ve ended up modifying the connection adapter to suit my needs though. I dont think you can set session in the console you''ll need to do it from a controller i.e. class TestController < ApplicationController def index session[:test_key] = 3 render :text => "setting test key to 3" end def read render :text => session[:test_key] end end This works as expected. Using the edge sql server adapter. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Luke Pearce
2008-Mar-17 18:19 UTC
Re: Is anyone running Rails 2.x against a MS SQL Server DB?
Luke Pearce wrote:> I''m running 2.x against 2005, and all seems to be working fine. I''ve > ended up modifying the connection adapter to suit my needs though. >Just to clarify that - In my project I''m using a modified sql server adapter. I created a new test project, using rails 2.0.2 and the edge sql server adapter. I added that controller to get/set the session and it all worked properly. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Wes Gamble
2008-Mar-19 16:46 UTC
Re: Is anyone running Rails 2.x against a MS SQL Server DB?
Luke, I see the same results in a fresh project using 2.0.2 and the 1.0 SQL server adapter. Thanks for the test code. I''ll post the problem with my other app. when I figure it out. Wes -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Wes Gamble
2008-Mar-19 22:40 UTC
Re: Is anyone running Rails 2.x against a MS SQL Server DB?
My problem appears to be related to the use of the object_transactions plugin (see: http://code.bitsweat.net/svn/object_transactions/), which in turn, relies on the transaction-simple gem. Removing the object-transactions plugin allows my session to save correctly. I haven''t figured out the exact reason yet, but I will and will post when I have it. If anyone understands the guts of the object_transactions plugin and/or the transaction-simple gem and would like to chime in, I''m all ears. It''s incredibly frustrating to have moved to the object_transactions plugin as an an effectively mandated part of the upgrade to Rails 2.0, and then have it totally not work with the ActiveRecord session store. My faith in being able to upgrade a Rails app. and even hope for plugins to continue to work is extremely shaken. Wes -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Wes Gamble
2008-Mar-19 23:07 UTC
Re: Is anyone running Rails 2.x against a MS SQL Server DB?
Just one more thing to add some evidence to my claim. If you install the object_transactions plugin (and by association, the transaction-simple plugin) into a new Rails app. like the one that Luke mentioned above, you will see the same behavior - your AR session store will not be saved to/from anymore. I am going to start a new post about this potential bug. Wes -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Wes Gamble
2008-Mar-20 00:29 UTC
Re: Is anyone running Rails 2.x against a MS SQL Server DB?
I _think_ the final answer is here: http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/146569 Wes -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---