Hi All, People are talking that ROR is not suitable for enterprise application. Iam not sure what are all the qualified features for the enterprise application. If you know, plz post. Also share your view on ROR supports enterprise application or not. Thanks. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I believe the core issues with enterprise apps are security, scalability & ability to support large numbers of concurrent users. I am knowledgeable enough to debate for either sides yet on whether ROR is enterprise ready. On Feb 6, 12:01 am, Ayyanar from Aspire Systems <rails-mailing- l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Hi All, > > People are talking that ROR is not suitable for enterprise application. > > Iam not sure what are all the qualified features for the enterprise > application. > If you know, plz post. > > Also share your view on ROR supports enterprise application or not. > > Thanks. > -- > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
RoR is far too easy, elegant and fast to develop with for it to be ready for enterprise. Now if they can just find a way to make it big, complicated, and no fun then it will be ready. But, wait that exists already. It''s called Java EE. On Feb 6, 3:06 am, mel ram <mel...-IA9i2KS8NFBpEKysQ+xqfPpXobYPEAuW@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I believe the core issues with enterprise apps are security, > scalability & ability to support large numbers of concurrent users. > > I am knowledgeable enough to debate for either sides yet on whether > ROR is enterprise ready. > > On Feb 6, 12:01 am, Ayyanar from Aspire Systems <rails-mailing- > > l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > > > People are talking that ROR is not suitable for enterprise application. > > > Iam not sure what are all the qualified features for the enterprise > > application. > > If you know, plz post. > > > Also share your view on ROR supports enterprise application or not. > > > Thanks. > > -- > > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
It is too easy for some to say "Rails is not suited" and it is equally easy to have a good comeback. But to be credible lets start by listing the "enterprisey" features and show that Rails can handle it. I agree that no framework is fully ready out-of-the-box and new challenges can be overcome with further development. So let''s start listing the "enterprisey" features ... - Transaction support -- Long http://FATdrive.tv/wall/trakb/10-Long http://FATdrive.tv/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Walker" <rwalker348-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> To: "Ruby on Rails: Talk" <rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:01 AM Subject: [Rails] Re: ROR supports Enterprise Application? RoR is far too easy, elegant and fast to develop with for it to be ready for enterprise. Now if they can just find a way to make it big, complicated, and no fun then it will be ready. But, wait that exists already. It''s called Java EE. On Feb 6, 3:06 am, mel ram <mel...-IA9i2KS8NFBpEKysQ+xqfPpXobYPEAuW@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I believe the core issues with enterprise apps are security, > scalability & ability to support large numbers of concurrent users. > > I am knowledgeable enough to debate for either sides yet on whether > ROR is enterprise ready. > > On Feb 6, 12:01 am, Ayyanar from Aspire Systems <rails-mailing- > > l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > > > People are talking that ROR is not suitable for enterprise application. > > > Iam not sure what are all the qualified features for the enterprise > > application. > > If you know, plz post. > > > Also share your view on ROR supports enterprise application or not. > > > Thanks. > > -- > > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Oops, I mean''t: *I am not knowledgeable enough to debate for either sides yet on whether ROR is enterprise ready. On Feb 6, 12:06 am, mel ram <mel...-IA9i2KS8NFBpEKysQ+xqfPpXobYPEAuW@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I believe the core issues with enterprise apps are security, > scalability & ability to support large numbers of concurrent users. > > I am knowledgeable enough to debate for either sides yet on whether > ROR is enterprise ready. > > On Feb 6, 12:01 am, Ayyanar from Aspire Systems <rails-mailing- > > l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > > > People are talking that ROR is not suitable for enterprise application. > > > Iam not sure what are all the qualified features for the enterprise > > application. > > If you know, plz post. > > > Also share your view on ROR supports enterprise application or not. > > > Thanks. > > -- > > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Feb 6, 2:01 am, Ayyanar from Aspire Systems <rails-mailing- l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Hi All, > > People are talking that ROR is not suitable for enterprise application.This question seems to come up about once a week, it seems. Am I the only one on this list who thinks that this question is ridiculous? --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> > This question seems to come up about once a week, it seems. > > Am I the only one on this list who thinks that this question is > ridiculous? >no, you''re not i hope, ROR is not enterprise ready, since this would only bring in the suits ;-) -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Thorsten Mueller wrote:>> >> This question seems to come up about once a week, it seems. >> >> Am I the only one on this list who thinks that this question is >> ridiculous? >> > > no, you''re not > i hope, ROR is not enterprise ready, since this would only bring in the > suits ;-)I don''t want to start a war, but personally, I am afraid that ROR architecture may still be far from Enterprise applications. The most obvious obstacles are coupling and scalability. For example, in enterprise applications, domain objects should not be tied to database schema and be long live objects. But they are in ROR right now. Also, it is really bad for the web talks directly to database, which is not security and not scalable either. For Enterprise application, usually, the data services and web applications are separated. In this way, web applications can be even written in different languages. For example, our company data services are implemented in Java and web applications are in both Java and .Net. The web applications never talk directly to database. SOA is a bit further, services are sitting behind ESB and the WSDLs are the main contracts, which should not be changed very often. If you have 20 applications, as long as the WSDLs are not changed, the web applications not need to be changed once the database schema is changed. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Feb 6, 2008, at 12:18 PM, John Fang wrote:> Thorsten Mueller wrote: >>> >>> This question seems to come up about once a week, it seems. >>> >>> Am I the only one on this list who thinks that this question is >>> ridiculous? >>> >> >> no, you''re not >> i hope, ROR is not enterprise ready, since this would only bring in >> the >> suits ;-) > > I don''t want to start a war, but personally, I am afraid that ROR > architecture may still be far from Enterprise applications. The most > obvious obstacles are coupling and scalability. For example, in > enterprise applications, domain objects should not be tied to database > schema and be long live objects. But they are in ROR right now. > Also, it > is really bad for the web talks directly to database, which is not > security and not scalable either. For Enterprise application, usually, > the data services and web applications are separated. In this way, web > applications can be even written in different languages. For example, > our company data services are implemented in Java and web applications > are in both Java and .Net. The web applications never talk directly to > database. SOA is a bit further, services are sitting behind ESB and > the > WSDLs are the main contracts, which should not be changed very > often. If > you have 20 applications, as long as the WSDLs are not changed, the > web > applications not need to be changed once the database schema is > changed.I''m sorry, but because this question *does* come up so frequently, it tests my patience. If you hear a loud "snap" that was my patience giving way. If what I''m about to say is offensive, I apologize in advance. It is more a rant about the question in general than this particular one. <rant> So the grand notion is that the more middleware you write the *better* your security story? That shipping data packets in fragile SOAP envelopes somehow imparts a loose coupling that will create more robustness? That adding more network traffic by decoupling service layers *improves* scalability? That somehow you got your API perfect in your WSDL but can''t settle on a stable database schema? Call me old fashioned (and I *am* old fashioned, having implemented everything from enterprise payroll and shipping systems for Fortune 500 companies all the way through shrink wrap and back through a rabbit hole and out to Web apps), but I think "enterprise" is a word used in the software industry to mean needlessly complex. I''ve seen far too many enterprise applications designed for over a year, built with the maximum amount of flexibility, security, and robustness in mind, only to discover half way through implementation that the problem domain had shifted and the wildly expensive project was irrelevant. You go ahead and use waterfall method project methodologies. Design by committee and make absolutely sure you write the largest number of lines of code you can to solve the problem. We wouldn''t want to think that your code is coupled too tightly to your problem domain. If "enterprise" means using tools created to solve problems in the 80s and 90s, then by all means, ignore the newfangled tools. But if you already knew that, why ask? </rant> Again, sorry for the rant. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 2/6/08, Ayyanar from Aspire Systems <rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Also share your view on ROR supports enterprise application or not.I''ve found a number of gotchas when using Rails with Oracle, but I haven''t found any real show-stoppers. -- Greg Donald http://destiney.com/ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I realize that my previous post was a sort of smart-ass remark, and I''m sure many think it came from someone who has never stepped foot inside an "enterprise" application. However, my day job is squarely linked (think ball-and-chain) to the enterprise. We do Java EE applications using Oracle JDeveloper. This is not what I signed up for, however, one must go with the flow sometimes. So my earlier remark was made purely from frustration. Example: Today I needed to interface to a SOAP web service, so I used the built-in generator provided by JDeveloper to create the web service proxy. After running the generator I then committed the resulting files....ALL 98 of them. Yep you heard right, 98 files to support one stinking web service. If that''s the definition of "enterprise" I look forward to the day I am able to escape. So I feel the same way about Rails and the enterprise as I feel about the Mac and the enterprise. Neither of which, IMHO, should care anything about the enterprise. It''s not a target worth worrying about. All you will find there is frustration and waste. On Feb 6, 4:29 pm, "Greg Donald" <gdon...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On 2/6/08, Ayyanar from Aspire Systems <rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > Also share your view on ROR supports enterprise application or not. > > I''ve found a number of gotchas when using Rails with Oracle, but I > haven''t found any real show-stoppers. > > -- > Greg Donaldhttp://destiney.com/--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
>>>I don''t want to start a war, but personally, I am afraid that RORarchitecture may still be far from Enterprise applications. The most obvious obstacles are coupling and scalability. For example, in enterprise applications, domain objects should not be tied to database schema and be long live objects. But they are in ROR right now. Also, it is really bad for the web talks directly to database, which is not security and not scalable either. For Enterprise application, usually, the data services and web applications are separated. In this way, web applications can be even written in different languages. For example, our company data services are implemented in Java and web applications are in both Java and .Net. The web applications never talk directly to database. SOA is a bit further, services are sitting behind ESB and the WSDLs are the main contracts, which should not be changed very often. If you have 20 applications, as long as the WSDLs are not changed, the web applications not need to be changed once the database schema is changed. Ummm... use the model and activerecord to ensure the security of your data? I''m not sure what the crazy worry is here. If you''re afraid of something like someone seeing the database password, then go crazy make a second RoR program just to interact with the database and keep it locked up wherever you store your .NET program. Why on the world would anyone think its better to write in TWO different programming languages for the same project is beyond me. On Feb 6, 11:31 pm, Robert Walker <rwalker...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I realize that my previous post was a sort of smart-ass remark, and > I''m sure many think it came from someone who has never stepped foot > inside an "enterprise" application. However, my day job is squarely > linked (think ball-and-chain) to the enterprise. > > We do Java EE applications using Oracle JDeveloper. This is not what I > signed up for, however, one must go with the flow sometimes. So my > earlier remark was made purely from frustration. Example: Today I > needed to interface to a SOAP web service, so I used the built-in > generator provided by JDeveloper to create the web service proxy. > After running the generator I then committed the resulting > files....ALL 98 of them. Yep you heard right, 98 files to support one > stinking web service. If that''s the definition of "enterprise" I look > forward to the day I am able to escape. > > So I feel the same way about Rails and the enterprise as I feel about > the Mac and the enterprise. Neither of which, IMHO, should care > anything about the enterprise. It''s not a target worth worrying about. > All you will find there is frustration and waste. > > On Feb 6, 4:29 pm, "Greg Donald" <gdon...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > On 2/6/08, Ayyanar from Aspire Systems <rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > Also share your view on ROR supports enterprise application or not. > > > I''ve found a number of gotchas when using Rails with Oracle, but I > > haven''t found any real show-stoppers. > > > -- > > Greg Donaldhttp://destiney.com/--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I have to agree with those who are fed up with this question. I was a Microsoft .NET developer working in a consulting firm before ''getting on the rails'' so to speak, and I have to say that the term enterprise is thrown around far too often. If you are being questioned whether the product is enterprise ready your next question should be "What are the requirements?" I have seen a tech support ticketing application labeled as Enterprise, or a Vactation Request form labeled as Enterprise. Both of these could have easily been done in almost any language and had the same results. The question is not whether Rails can handle the Enterprise, but rather whether the Enterprise is ready for Rails. Rails will demand a different programming skillset than say .NET. Also, The Agile development methodology will mean big changes for most teams, and Agile doesn''t mean... many meetings a day to make many changes! It always comes down to the competency of the developers on a project. You could have hard-core ColdFusion developers blow the socks off a weak group of Java developers... I feel that the tools nowdays are no longer a barrier to the style of application. Its far too often becoming religion. I once sat beside someone who asked what I did, and when said I was a Rails Developer he responded "Oh, I have heard that is not as powerful as .NET because its scripted". I think the philosophy that is lost on most development teams is that less is more. To anyone that says Rails is not Enterprise Ready then prove it. What requirement is not met? And if it is, that is not a failure of Rails in the Enterprise, that''s a failure on THAT requirement. Choose the tool that gets the job done and that your team has the skills for, and learn to prototype! It will save countless hours and dollars if you can prove/disprove a solution will work in the first place... this is the answer to your original question. Try to figure out why Rails won''t work. It will be a much shorter list and possibly no list at all. When the religious types show up... Java, .NET, whatever... don''t give their opinion much value unless they have a specific example to share. http://matthewcarriere.com On Feb 6, 9:40 pm, kopf1988 <kopf1...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> >>>I don''t want to start a war, but personally, I am afraid that ROR > > architecture may still be far from Enterprise applications. The most > obvious obstacles are coupling and scalability. For example, in > enterprise applications, domain objects should not be tied to database > schema and be long live objects. But they are in ROR right now. Also, > it > is really bad for the web talks directly to database, which is not > security and not scalable either. For Enterprise application, usually, > the data services and web applications are separated. In this way, web > applications can be even written in different languages. For example, > our company data services are implemented in Java and web applications > are in both Java and .Net. The web applications never talk directly to > database. SOA is a bit further, services are sitting behind ESB and > the > WSDLs are the main contracts, which should not be changed very often. > If > you have 20 applications, as long as the WSDLs are not changed, the > web > applications not need to be changed once the database schema is > changed. > > Ummm... use the model and activerecord to ensure the security of your > data? I''m not sure what the crazy worry is here. If you''re afraid of > something like someone seeing the database password, then go crazy > make a second RoR program just to interact with the database and keep > it locked up wherever you store your .NET program. > > Why on the world would anyone think its better to write in TWO > different programming languages for the same project is beyond me. > > On Feb 6, 11:31 pm, Robert Walker <rwalker...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > I realize that my previous post was a sort of smart-ass remark, and > > I''m sure many think it came from someone who has never stepped foot > > inside an "enterprise" application. However, my day job is squarely > > linked (think ball-and-chain) to the enterprise. > > > We do Java EE applications using Oracle JDeveloper. This is not what I > > signed up for, however, one must go with the flow sometimes. So my > > earlier remark was made purely from frustration. Example: Today I > > needed to interface to a SOAP web service, so I used the built-in > > generator provided by JDeveloper to create the web service proxy. > > After running the generator I then committed the resulting > > files....ALL 98 of them. Yep you heard right, 98 files to support one > > stinking web service. If that''s the definition of "enterprise" I look > > forward to the day I am able to escape. > > > So I feel the same way about Rails and the enterprise as I feel about > > the Mac and the enterprise. Neither of which, IMHO, should care > > anything about the enterprise. It''s not a target worth worrying about. > > All you will find there is frustration and waste. > > > On Feb 6, 4:29 pm, "Greg Donald" <gdon...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > On 2/6/08, Ayyanar from Aspire Systems <rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > > Also share your view on ROR supports enterprise application or not. > > > > I''ve found a number of gotchas when using Rails with Oracle, but I > > > haven''t found any real show-stoppers. > > > > -- > > > Greg Donaldhttp://destiney.com/--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Feb 6, 2008 1:01 AM, Ayyanar from Aspire Systems <rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Also share your view on ROR supports enterprise application or not.Rails supports building 20-50 table mostly-CRUD web applications (not surprisingly, that''s what it was created for). There is a huge number of apps that fall right into this sweet spot in any corporate IT environment. For more complex domains, ActiveRecord pattern does have its drawbacks. Tight coupling between domain and database makes your unit tests either slow, or heavily mocked out, and therefore, expensive to maintain. But you don''t *have* to use ActiveRecord with Rails. There is a number of "real ORM" persistence solutions in the works, and ActionPack is still a wonderful technology to build web front-ends to pretty much any kind of a service layer. And then, there is JRuby, which happily runs on those pesky J2EE containers, and let''s you mix Ruby layers with Java layers at will, if that rocks your boat. People have done many "enterprise" projects with Rails, and even more with Ruby. For any definition of "enterprise", including non-trivial financial domains. In most cases, it was a pleasant, rewarding experience for those involved. You just have to pick the right kind of a project. -- Alexey Verkhovsky CruiseControl.rb [http://cruisecontrolrb.thoughtworks.com] RubyWorks [http://rubyworks.thoughtworks.com] --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---