I''ve never touched ruby/rails before, but after visiting ruby-lang.org a couple of days ago my interest in Ruby has exploded. This is among other things because of the beautiful syntax and the fact that everything is objects. FYI: I''ve been using PHP for 5-6 years now, and I''ve built my own small company around this language - so when looking at Ruby and Rails I''m naturally trying to compare them to PHP. I''m the kind of person who finds it rather hard just to "trust" that other people made a framework that is "perfect" my projects. This is not because I think I''m better than other developers, but simply because I know for sure that frameworks made by others simply isn''t made especially for my project. Therefore I have to ask: Why are so many people choosing Rails for their web apps instead of making their own specific frameworks (as we see with for example PHP). The percentage of websites based of PHP frameworks is rather low - in ruby it seems that "all" websites are made with Rails (I maybe wrong here, this is just my perception). Why is this? In PHP you just add for example an apache server and you''re ready to built your own web framework/projekt. Isn''t the same thing possible with ruby?? Another concern I''ve got with Ruby/Rails is performance. I can see RoR promises easy maintainability and beautiful code, but doesn''t this hurt performance in the other end? And how is the scalability? Now, enlighten me! :-) Thanks in advance! -Rasmus -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Rasmus Nielsen wrote:> I''ve never touched ruby/rails before, but after visiting ruby-lang.org a > couple of days ago my interest in Ruby has exploded. This is among other > things because of the beautiful syntax and the fact that everything is > objects. > FYI: I''ve been using PHP for 5-6 years now, and I''ve built my own small > company around this language - so when looking at Ruby and Rails I''m > naturally trying to compare them to PHP.Ruby is a great language but coming from a scripting language you may have a steep learning curve as I did. Once you get what object oriented means and how embedded it is in Ruby, you will see how clean that can be when applied to databases through an ORM.> I''m the kind of person who finds it rather hard just to "trust" that > other people made a framework that is "perfect" my projects. This is not > because I think I''m better than other developers, but simply because I > know for sure that frameworks made by others simply isn''t made > especially for my project.Nothing is perfect. If you''ve got projects started, now is probably not the time to switch them to a framework you do not fully understand. Start a few small test projects to get a feel for the language and framework. MVC is a decent way to abstract portions of code to ensure consistency. Rails kicks this into high gear with REST and respond_to.> Therefore I have to ask: Why are so many people choosing Rails for their > web apps instead of making their own specific frameworks (as we see with > for example PHP). The percentage of websites based of PHP frameworks is > rather low - in ruby it seems that "all" websites are made with Rails (I > maybe wrong here, this is just my perception). Why is this?Programmer happiness (assuming you can make it do what you want). The curve is steep but the power at the top of the curve is immense.> In PHP you just add for example an apache server and you''re ready to > built your own web framework/projekt. Isn''t the same thing possible with > ruby??It is and there are other frameworks. Camping is one.> Another concern I''ve got with Ruby/Rails is performance. I can see RoR > promises easy maintainability and beautiful code, but doesn''t this hurt > performance in the other end? And how is the scalability?Why does crap code work faster? It doesn''t and you lose maintainability. Ruby itself has some slowness (at least in some benchmarks that I do not fully understand) that is being worked on but clearly so many large Rails web apps tells us that this Rails thing can scale. Isn''t that all the proof you need? OK, perhaps that''s not all you need. There''s caching that improves performance. Many large sites use this. There''s also the ability to ramp up many servers to run a site.> Now, enlighten me! :-) > Thanks in advance! > > -Rasmus-- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Dec 19, 2007, at 9:49 PM, Rasmus Nielsen wrote:> > I''ve never touched ruby/rails before, but after visiting ruby- > lang.org a > couple of days ago my interest in Ruby has exploded. This is among > other > things because of the beautiful syntax and the fact that everything is > objects. > > FYI: I''ve been using PHP for 5-6 years now, and I''ve built my own > small > company around this language - so when looking at Ruby and Rails I''m > naturally trying to compare them to PHP. > > I''m the kind of person who finds it rather hard just to "trust" that > other people made a framework that is "perfect" my projects. This is > not > because I think I''m better than other developers, but simply because I > know for sure that frameworks made by others simply isn''t made > especially for my project. > > Therefore I have to ask: Why are so many people choosing Rails for > their > web apps instead of making their own specific frameworks (as we see > with > for example PHP). The percentage of websites based of PHP frameworks > is > rather low - in ruby it seems that "all" websites are made with > Rails (I > maybe wrong here, this is just my perception). Why is this?Mostly, I would not call those things real "Application Frameworks". This might not be the case, with your projects, but in my experience most of those mini-frameworks are in existance because no one knew better. Sometimes, they are quite good, sometimes they are horrible. Your milage may vary. I had the possibility to work both on "frameworkless" and framework- based (Mojavi & Agavi) Sites in PHP and I have to state: those based on a framework are easier to handle. Consider a Framework as a set of shared knowledge. We are all doing the same thing. So why do it twice? If you start thinking about the way a framework like Rails or Agavi describe the web, you will find out that most of your "problem orientated code" was useless - because there is an easy, general way of solving your problem.> > > In PHP you just add for example an apache server and you''re ready to > built your own web framework/projekt. Isn''t the same thing possible > with > ruby??As PHP is build for web development (its default output stream sends headers, etc.) , this is easier in PHP. (using mod_php and the like...) Ruby by itself is not a web language. It is a general purpose scripting language like python or perl. Thus, doing specific low-level tasks is sometimes a bit more work. But the "web" problem is solved and there are more than one solutions that you can just grab and start using.> > Another concern I''ve got with Ruby/Rails is performance. I can see RoR > promises easy maintainability and beautiful code, but doesn''t this > hurt > performance in the other end? And how is the scalability?Performance is relative. For example, caching in Rails is really easy. So your beautiful code that took you 10 minutes to write is taking 8ms longer in execution time than a low- level unoptimized version. You invest 2 more minutes and the page gets cached for 10 minutes and will be served as if it was a static page. So why optimize the code? As every other stateless Framework, Rails scales - if you run out of juice, throw another server at it. I don''t know the size of your projects, but it takes a long time before you hit a border. On the other hand: yes, Rails solves many tasks and is thus big. So if you like Ruby but some Rails facts hold you off, there are other web frameworks in ruby that might be worth looking into. Merb, Nitro, Ramaze, Sinatra, Camping, just to name a few.> > Now, enlighten me! :-) > Thanks in advance! >I hope I did - at least a bit ;).> -Rasmus > -- >-Florian --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Florian Gilcher wrote:> On Dec 19, 2007, at 9:49 PM, Rasmus Nielsen wrote:yes, ruby on rails is way to good to be true. run, fast and far, and never look back. by the way, who are your clients again? i am trying to drum up some business. i would not go as far as to say i am a pirate, but, clients are clients, and money is money. and... did i say i was a pirate? FRED ROCKS. i nominate him for: RAILS YODA 2008 toodles. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
After a short google-trip I found this wonderful website: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=ruby&lang2=php The benchmarks are not Ruby''s forte (although in Ruby 1.9 it''s supposed to be *at least* 2.5x quicker) The sheer development speed of Ruby and the beauty of the language (which made your interest "explode") is what makes programming Ruby/Rails fun and enjoyable and speeds up development time. As for scalability, there''s nothing another Quad Xeon can''t fix :) On Dec 20, 2007 7:19 AM, Rasmus Nielsen <rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > I''ve never touched ruby/rails before, but after visiting ruby-lang.org a > couple of days ago my interest in Ruby has exploded. This is among other > things because of the beautiful syntax and the fact that everything is > objects.> > FYI: I''ve been using PHP for 5-6 years now, and I''ve built my own small > company around this language - so when looking at Ruby and Rails I''m > naturally trying to compare them to PHP. > > I''m the kind of person who finds it rather hard just to "trust" that > other people made a framework that is "perfect" my projects. This is not > because I think I''m better than other developers, but simply because I > know for sure that frameworks made by others simply isn''t made > especially for my project. > > Therefore I have to ask: Why are so many people choosing Rails for their > web apps instead of making their own specific frameworks (as we see with > for example PHP). The percentage of websites based of PHP frameworks is > rather low - in ruby it seems that "all" websites are made with Rails (I > maybe wrong here, this is just my perception). Why is this? > > In PHP you just add for example an apache server and you''re ready to > built your own web framework/projekt. Isn''t the same thing possible with > ruby?? > > Another concern I''ve got with Ruby/Rails is performance. I can see RoR > promises easy maintainability and beautiful code, but doesn''t this hurt > performance in the other end? And how is the scalability? > > Now, enlighten me! :-) > Thanks in advance! > > -Rasmus > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > > >-- Ryan Bigg http://www.frozenplague.net --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Dec 19, 6:23 pm, "Ryan Bigg" <radarliste...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> After a short google-trip I found this wonderful website:http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all〈=rub... > > The benchmarks are not Ruby''s forte (although in Ruby 1.9 it''s supposed to > be *at least* 2.5x quicker)Also see http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4sandbox/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=yarv> The sheer development speed of Ruby and the beauty of the language (which > made your interest "explode") is what makes programming Ruby/Rails fun and > enjoyable and speeds up development time. > > As for scalability, there''s nothing another Quad Xeon can''t fix :) > > On Dec 20, 2007 7:19 AM, Rasmus Nielsen <rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> > wrote: > > > > > > > I''ve never touched ruby/rails before, but after visiting ruby-lang.org a > > couple of days ago my interest in Ruby has exploded. This is among other > > things because of the beautiful syntax and the fact that everything is > > objects. > > > FYI: I''ve been using PHP for 5-6 years now, and I''ve built my own small > > company around this language - so when looking at Ruby and Rails I''m > > naturally trying to compare them to PHP. > > > I''m the kind of person who finds it rather hard just to "trust" that > > other people made a framework that is "perfect" my projects. This is not > > because I think I''m better than other developers, but simply because I > > know for sure that frameworks made by others simply isn''t made > > especially for my project. > > > Therefore I have to ask: Why are so many people choosing Rails for their > > web apps instead of making their own specific frameworks (as we see with > > for example PHP). The percentage of websites based of PHP frameworks is > > rather low - in ruby it seems that "all" websites are made with Rails (I > > maybe wrong here, this is just my perception). Why is this? > > > In PHP you just add for example an apache server and you''re ready to > > built your own web framework/projekt. Isn''t the same thing possible with > > ruby?? > > > Another concern I''ve got with Ruby/Rails is performance. I can see RoR > > promises easy maintainability and beautiful code, but doesn''t this hurt > > performance in the other end? And how is the scalability? > > > Now, enlighten me! :-) > > Thanks in advance! > > > -Rasmus > > -- > > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > Ryan Bigghttp://www.frozenplague.net--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Isaac Gouy wrote:> On Dec 19, 6:23 pm, "Ryan Bigg" <radarliste...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> After a short google-trip I found this wonderful website:http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all〈=rub... >> >> The benchmarks are not Ruby''s forte (although in Ruby 1.9 it''s supposed to >> be *at least* 2.5x quicker) > > Also see > > http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4sandbox/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=yarvwhat it looks like it is saying... is that ruby is slower then php, but ruby uses less memory. ruby 1.9 has improved in speed. ruby is just fun, easy, and i have less problems looking at other peoples code. i actually enjoy it. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Thank you for all your answers. It helped me a lot. Now I know what I''ll be doing for the holidays - studying rails ;-) Could you recommend any good resources on ruby/rails? Books or websites. Thanks again. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> Thank you for all your answers. It helped me a lot. Now I know what I''ll > be doing for the holidays - studying rails ;-) > > Could you recommend any good resources on ruby/rails? Books or websites.http://www.sitepoint.com/books/rails1/ http://www.humblelittlerubybook.com/ http://railscasts.com/ http://peepcode.com/ That should keep you busy for a little bit anyway. If you can learn some Ruby first. It *will* help with Rails. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Dec 20, 2007 11:34 PM, Philip Hallstrom <rails-SUcgGwS4C16SUMMaM/qcSw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Could you recommend any good resources on ruby/rails? Books or websites. > > http://www.sitepoint.com/books/rails1/ > http://www.humblelittlerubybook.com/ > http://railscasts.com/ > http://peepcode.com/ > > That should keep you busy for a little bit anyway. If you can learn some > Ruby first. It *will* help with Rails.And if your mind is suitably warped, you can learn some ruby and have fun doing it from Why''s poignant guide. http://poignantguide.net/ruby/ - Martin --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---