Rails - Dec 2007 - Valentina Database Now Supports Ruby on Rails on Mac OS X

http://www.valentina-db.com/

Valentina 3.5.1 technology release now includes support for building
RoR applications on Mac OS X. They have previously released support on
the Windows platform. There is also a component for building local
Ruby apps as well.

You can read more on their site or their publisher mirye.com.
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On Dec 14, 2007 4:02 PM, Lynn
<lynn.fredricks-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> http://www.valentina-db.com/
>
> Valentina 3.5.1 technology release now includes support for building
> RoR applications on Mac OS X. They have previously released support on
> the Windows platform. There is also a component for building local
> Ruby apps as well.
>
> You can read more on their site or their publisher mirye.com.
And this is cheaper than MySQL and PostgreSQL and SQLite by how much?


-- 
Greg Donald
http://destiney.com/

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On 14 Dec 2007, at 23:12, Greg Donald wrote:
>> http://www.valentina-db.com/
>>
>> Valentina 3.5.1 technology release now includes support for building
>> RoR applications on Mac OS X. They have previously released  
>> support on
>> the Windows platform. There is also a component for building local
>> Ruby apps as well.
>>
>> You can read more on their site or their publisher mirye.com.
>
> And this is cheaper than MySQL and PostgreSQL and SQLite by how much?
Having no affiliation with this company whatsoever and have to say  
this is a bit unfair towards this excellent db. It''s true it''s
not
free, but some people like paying for the benefits of a database. I''m  
looking at Daylite (crm/erp application for macos x) for example  
which is using the commercial Openbase because of it''s excellent  
stability, transparent offline synchronisation capabilities etc.

I''ve used Valentina with a few of the other languages that it  
supports and in terms of speed, it blows away the other dbs away  
easily. What I particularly liked about it when using it in  
conjunction with REALbasic (which can be great for low budget  
applications), was its object-relational nature, binary links (habtm  
without a real table) and its random virtual recordset access.  
Instead of having to use LIMIT and OFFSET, you could query a  
recordset that let''s say yields a 50,000 record result, then randomly  
say: well, get me object 10,212 to 10,500 and 35,141 and 44,984 to  
45,014 and send it over to me. There''s a whole lot of query parsing  
and seperate queries involved if you''d be using plain sql for this. I  
don''t know how far this support is backed into their adapter, but if  
it is, you''ll be pleasantly surprised.

To give you a simple example, in a company I used to work for, a  
prospect asked us to make his very large database with quite a few  
linked tables live searchable locally on those old clamshell ibooks  
and some superslow dell laptops. I spent about one day, maybe even a  
little less and I had both the Windows and Mac version of the app  
compiled and ready to run, including an import procedure to import  
all the data. Every keydown in the app narrowed the list down almost  
instantly using a random access datagrid, and I''m talking about some  
fulltext searched fields here too or you could browse through all of  
the records using the scrollbar. We never deemed such a thing  
possible on those old machines, still Valentina did it without a fuss.

Also, if you look at the licensing scheme, it''s a lot more clear than  
MySQL''s, which is not as free as you claim it to be.

Best regards

Peter De Berdt


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On Dec 14, 2007 4:50 PM, Peter De Berdt
<peter.de.berdt-LPO8gxj9N8aZIoH1IeqzKA@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Also, if you look at the licensing scheme, it''s a lot more clear
than
http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/

Seems pretty clear to me.
> MySQL''s, which is not as free as you claim it to be.
What does "not as free" even mean?  You''re very confused.  If
the
degree of "free" MySQL offers isn''t enough then
there''s also
PostgreSQL and SQLite as I mentioned before.

And who really cares if MySQL is free or not, they''re not spamming
off-topic ads into the list.


-- 
Greg Donald
http://destiney.com/

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On 15 Dec 2007, at 00:06, Greg Donald wrote:
>>
>> http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/
>>
>> Seems pretty clear to me.
>
> What does "not as free" even mean?
It means if you make money of something that uses mysql, you have to  
pay for it (and you have to pay a lot). Although some might say if  
the customer installs mysql themselves, the commercial license  
doesn''t apply, nor  if your application can use different databases,  
nor if the mysql database adapter is open source. Everybody has a  
different story about what is the truth now. Unless you''re using the  
4.0 version of mysql that is, which was basically free IIRC. That''s  
what I call a confusing and "not as free as you claim" license.
> You''re very confused.  If the
> degree of "free" MySQL offers isn''t enough then
there''s also
> PostgreSQL and SQLite as I mentioned before.
That''s why those two weren''t mentioned. Valentina still has
several
features that make it stand out over all the databases you mentioned  
(and may have shortcomings compared to them).
> And who really cares if MySQL is free or not, they''re not spamming
> off-topic ads into the list.
One message about a new rails database adapter for a commercial  
database is something you consider spamming? Why didn''t you go all  
berserk on the Openbase adapter announcement then. Guess Lynn should  
have made the message longer and with lots of asterisks and [ANN]  
headers, maybe that would have been less spam to you.

If the Lynn starts flooding this list on a daily basis with that  
announcement just like the 2GB free download space (or what is it)  
bullocks or non-ruby or RoR related (check the website, it''s about  
Rails, and it''s posted on a Rails mailing list), then I''ll be
happy
to support your case. But I understand your frustration with spam  
these days, this pre-holiday period has been a real pain for my  
mailbox too =)


Best regards

Peter De Berdt


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Hi Peter,
Hi Greg,
Hi All,

Thank you, Peter, for your comments about Valentina database. :-)
Sorry it have take so long from us to move Valentina to Ruby world.
And actually we have yet need do few important steps to enable all unique
Valentina features you also mention.

I am going spend few nearest weeks on the RUBY-CORE list to get help from
core-developers of ROR. I hope they will be friendly. :-)
> == 3 of 4 => Date: Fri, Dec 14 2007 2:50 pm
> From: Peter De Berdt
> 
> On 14 Dec 2007, at 23:12, Greg Donald wrote:
>> And this is cheaper than MySQL and PostgreSQL and SQLite by how much?
> 
> Having no affiliation with this company whatsoever and have to say
> this is a bit unfair towards this excellent db. It''s true
it''s not
> free, but some people like paying for the benefits of a database.
To Greg. 

Well, do you all measure by price and money ???
What price of your life? My? Our children? :-)

Or another example.

One Valentina user have switch to Valentina from mySQL his ORM framework,
which is EOF-like, and made for REALbasic. This user have report us that
some complex query mySQL do in 30 minutes, Valentina do in 30 seconds. For
Valentina 3.5.2 (upcoming) we have made it even faster to near 1 second.

            30 minutes vs 1 second.
            1800 times faster.

How much money you need to pay to get mySQL soooo fast?  :^)


-----------------------------------------------------------
You also mention SqlLite and Postgre....

DISCLAIMER: Well, I am not going start any wars here, please DO NOT respond
to my following paragraph. It just expresses MY EXPIRIENCE for the last 5-8
years. Just a my private info.

Valentina developers usually are developers who are NOT satisfied with all
these mentioned dbs. They come to Valentina and tell us own stories. Some of
them are here: 
    http://www.paradigmasoft.com/en/testimonials
    
I have never hear that SqlLite is faster of mySQL for real-world dbs. And I
have hear only once that Postgre was faster mySQL for some complex many CPU
system, but usually in comparison the say something like: "Postgre
comparing
to mySQL is like a tortilla".

Again no need argue for your favorite tools. All such "wars" at last
of end
finishes with agree that:
    
        * choose right tools for your tasks.  :-)
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]



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> > Valentina 3.5.1 technology release now includes support for building
> > RoR applications on Mac OS X. They have previously released support on
> > the Windows platform. There is also a component for building local
> > Ruby apps as well.
>
> > You can read more on their site or their publisher mirye.com.
>
> And this is cheaper than MySQL and PostgreSQL and SQLite by how much?
That is entirely dependent on total cost of your project and if those
products do everything everyone needs - it has almost nothing to do
with it being free to download. Unless developer time is totally free,
and the impact of delivery is non-existent, then no worries.


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On Dec 15, 1:09 pm, Ruslan Zasukhin
<sunsh...-61JfyZBJ/oFUO0+35kZbs/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> ToGreg.
>
> Well, do you all measure by price and money ???
Yes.  Why on earth would I want to spend money on closed source
software when I don''t have to?
> One Valentina user have switch to Valentina from mySQL his ORM framework,
> which is EOF-like, and made for REALbasic. This user have report us that
> some complex query mySQL do in 30 minutes, Valentina do in 30 seconds. For
> Valentina 3.5.2 (upcoming) we have made it even faster to near 1 second.
>
>             30 minutes vs 1 second.
>             1800 times faster.
My experience with benchmarks is that any of them can be tuned to look
good in a particular situation.  For example your particular case
seems to be the "EOF-like" variety, clearly an edge case for which
Valentina is specifically tuned.
> How much money you need to pay to get mySQL soooo fast?  :^)
I don''t pay any money to use MySQL and it''s much, much faster
than I
actually need it to be.
> Valentina developers usually are developers who are NOT satisfied with all
> these mentioned dbs. They come to Valentina and tell us own stories. Some
of
> them are here:
>    http://www.paradigmasoft.com/en/testimonials
That''s great but as long as Valentina is closed source I won''t
even
try it, much less pay money to use it or advise my company to use it.
Welcome to the future of software.
> I have never hear that SqlLite is faster of mySQL for real-world dbs. And I
> have hear only once that Postgre was faster mySQL for some complex many CPU
> system, but usually in comparison the say something like: "Postgre
comparing
> to mySQL is like a tortilla".
I don''t really know why you want to stay on this speed tangent when
the real issue here is spamming the list with an off-topic ad for a
closed source project.  Get over yourself and your "fast" database and
let people discover the project through Google like normal.  I''m sure
there are billions of developers searching for a "faster than anything
out there" database right this minute.
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On 28/12/07 1:15 AM, "rubyonrails-talk group"
<noreply-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org>
wrote:

Hi Greg,
>> One Valentina user have switch to Valentina from mySQL his ORM
framework,
>> which is EOF-like, and made for REALbasic. This user have report us
that
>> some complex query mySQL do in 30 minutes, Valentina do in 30 seconds.
For
>> Valentina 3.5.2 (upcoming) we have made it even faster to near 1
second.
>> 
>>             30 minutes vs 1 second.
>>             1800 times faster.
> 
> My experience with benchmarks is that any of them can be tuned to look
> good in a particular situation.  For example your particular case
> seems to be the "EOF-like" variety, clearly an edge case for
which
> Valentina is specifically tuned.
No actually... 

Valentina is not tuned for any OR frameworks. Because we never have put such
target. Actually we only now starting to check this OR frameworks world
(ROR, Hibernate). We never did this because Valentina is not RDBMS, it is
Object-Relational. So we have consider any OR MAPs to be not needed. But it
seems that if do OR framework around ORDBMS it will be more clean/thing/
simple than one around RDBMS.

Its nature of engine and format of db files really give many enough benefits
for OR frameworks. For example, Valentina has RecID and OID fields in tables
which eat ZERO disk space, while still do job. Also Valentina is vertical
format database (not traditional row-format). Also Valentina has on low
level the Link abstraction, which you will not find in any other RDBMS. And
so on.

http://www.valentina-db.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=paradigma:public:en:documen
tation:vkernel:vlink:vlink

Besides, that developer have not implement yet any Valentina-specific
optimizations. For example we push him to start use Links, RecId, OID, SQL
with bindings, and so on.

We are sure that when he optimize framework with this features, he will get
easy 2-10 times speed up overall.

And I want underline again, Valentina was NOT born to be used with
OR-frameworks. 99% of Valentina developers use it just as ORDBMS without any
frameworks. And from this 99% may be 50% use it as pure RDBMS not touching
OR-features.

>> Valentina developers usually are developers who are NOT satisfied with
all
>> these mentioned dbs. They come to Valentina and tell us own stories.
Some of
>> them are here:
>>    http://www.paradigmasoft.com/en/testimonials
> 
> That''s great but as long as Valentina is closed source I
won''t even
> try it, much less pay money to use it or advise my company to use it.
> Welcome to the future of software.
Aha, so problem is in your "religion". Then sorry, sorry...
Keep going with your gods  :-)))
Nobody going touch personally you.

But note, that we was FORSED by many requests from Valentina users to enable
Valentina database for ROR. So please, Greg, try understand that EXCEPT you
exists other developers, which _may_ have other opinion and point of view
about db tools and needs of _their_ clients.

Welcome to multi-opinion multi-color multi-polar world :-)
> I don''t really know why you want to stay on this speed tangent
when
> the real issue here is spamming the list with an off-topic ad for a
> closed source project.
Does this list have the name like "open-source-software-only" ? But
no.
Its about ROR and ANYTHING related to ROR. Am I right Greg?

Can you assume that after this "ad for a closed source project", some
members of this list will get FREE INFORMATION about tool which allow them
better solve their tasks? Why you want prevent them from this??? You are
censor? You like mySQL? But we know a lots of developers, which hate it.

By the way, your first message into this thread was about price of Valentina
vs mySQL. I have forget to mention that we have for Linux web developers
totally FREE Valentina Community Server.
> Get over yourself and your "fast" database and let people
discover the project
> through Google like normal.  I''m sure there are billions of
developers
> searching for a "faster than anything out there" database right
this minute.
1) exists law/rule about this way only? Point by finger please.
    if you cannot point such law please do not teach others.

2) Hmm, You like and use Google???

Am I right they use own *closed-source* software for search engines?
So be consistent, and "trash" it from your tools. :-))

Also I believe you _never_ use such things as Windows, MAC OS X,
Dreamweaver, Flash, Photoshop, inDesign, ShockWave, Director, Opera, and
thousands of other cool titles?

P.S. This is the last my answer to Greg''s "religion wars".

-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]



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