Rails - Dec 2006 - Yahoo UI Library (YUI) - Anyone using with Rails??? Comparision with prototype/scriptaculous (YUI seems to be getting quite popular)

Hi,

The Yahoo UI library <http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/> (YUI) seems to be
getting popular.  A few questions if anyone has any knowledge/experience:

Q1 - Would YUI complement a rails development?  Or does it compete directly
with prototype/scriptaculous?

Q2 - From the point of view of rich client web interfaces would you
recommend looking into YUI, or just stick with
rails/prototype/scriptaculous?

Tks

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> Q2 - From the point of view of rich client web interfaces would you
> recommend looking into YUI, or just stick with
> rails/prototype/scriptaculous?

No experience with YUI, but if the slow clunky, "new" yahoo mail is
using this library, then I wouldn''t bother with it. The performance is
not good.

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On 29 Dec 2006, at 22:15, toby privett wrote:
>> Q2 - From the point of view of rich client web interfaces would you
>> recommend looking into YUI, or just stick with
>> rails/prototype/scriptaculous?
>
>
> No experience with YUI, but if the slow clunky, "new" yahoo mail
is
> using this library, then I wouldn''t bother with it. The
performance is
> not good.
Indeed, YUI is very slow compared to the other JavaScript libs out  
there. On my old PowerBook (our newer intel macs show good  
performance with all libs) JQuery is probably the one with the  
smoothest animations (using the Interface plugin). On top op that,  
JQuery has a really nice syntax and small footprint.


Best regards

Peter De Berdt


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Hi,

On 12/29/06, Greg Hauptmann
<greg.hauptmann.ruby-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> The Yahoo UI library (YUI) seems to be getting popular.  A few questions if
> anyone has any knowledge/experience:
>
> Q1 - Would YUI complement a rails development?  Or does it compete directly
> with prototype/scriptaculous?
It competes directly. Both libraries have Ajax components, Dom helpers
to find by classname, drag and drop. All the normal things. YUI has
good documentation and better JavaScript coding practices than
prototype/scriptaculous.

> Q2 - From the point of view of rich client web interfaces would you
> recommend looking into YUI, or just stick with
> rails/prototype/scriptaculous?

I was disappointed enough with Prototype/Scriptaculous and I like the
Yahoo! UI enough that I have started a fork of the YUI to use with
Rails. My fork has forked quite a bit from YUI to make what I think
are some improvements but the main ideas of YUI guide many parts of my
fork. I have added the pieces needed to do all the nice Rails Ajax
stuff like RJS (though I think the ejs templates are better idea see
<URL: http://www.danwebb.net/2006/11/24/minusmor-released>). The first
official release of Fork JavaScirpt is only a couple weeks off.

<URL: http://forkjavascript.org>

Peter

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I''ve been using the Y! grids CSS which is kinda part of the YUI  
package. I''d recommend it as it makes it nice and
easy to come up with a layout that fits whatever needs you have. You  
simply use their classes and structure
your page containers properly and the heavy lifting is done for you  
in terms of laying out major components in your
pages. This part of YUI does not compete with anything in rails and  
is very complimentary.

-Michael
http://javathehutt.blogspot.com

On Dec 29, 2006, at 3:24 PM, Peter Michaux wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On 12/29/06, Greg Hauptmann
<greg.hauptmann.ruby-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>> The Yahoo UI library (YUI) seems to be getting popular.  A few  
>> questions if
>> anyone has any knowledge/experience:
>>
>> Q1 - Would YUI complement a rails development?  Or does it compete  
>> directly
>> with prototype/scriptaculous?
>
> It competes directly. Both libraries have Ajax components, Dom helpers
> to find by classname, drag and drop. All the normal things. YUI has
> good documentation and better JavaScript coding practices than
> prototype/scriptaculous.
>
>
>> Q2 - From the point of view of rich client web interfaces would you
>> recommend looking into YUI, or just stick with
>> rails/prototype/scriptaculous?
>
>
> I was disappointed enough with Prototype/Scriptaculous and I like the
> Yahoo! UI enough that I have started a fork of the YUI to use with
> Rails. My fork has forked quite a bit from YUI to make what I think
> are some improvements but the main ideas of YUI guide many parts of my
> fork. I have added the pieces needed to do all the nice Rails Ajax
> stuff like RJS (though I think the ejs templates are better idea see
> <URL: http://www.danwebb.net/2006/11/24/minusmor-released>). The
first
> official release of Fork JavaScirpt is only a couple weeks off.
>
> <URL: http://forkjavascript.org>
>
> Peter
>
> >

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Any idea when there will be a jquery implementation of the rails js helpers
available? I came from a jquery environment, so I don''t really want to
learn
to work with prototype and scriptaculous if possible.

On 12/29/06, Peter De Berdt
<peter.de.berdt-LPO8gxj9N8aZIoH1IeqzKA@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
>
> On 29 Dec 2006, at 22:15, toby privett wrote:
>
> Q2 - From the point of view of rich client web interfaces would you
>
> recommend looking into YUI, or just stick with
>
> rails/prototype/scriptaculous?
>
>
>
> No experience with YUI, but if the slow clunky, "new" yahoo mail
is
>
> using this library, then I wouldn''t bother with it. The
performance is
>
> not good.
>
>
> Indeed, YUI is very slow compared to the other JavaScript libs out there.
> On my old PowerBook (our newer intel macs show good performance with all
> libs) JQuery is probably the one with the smoothest animations (using the
> Interface plugin). On top op that, JQuery has a really nice syntax and
small
> footprint.
>
>
> Best regards
>
>
> Peter De Berdt
>
>
> >
>
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Michael - does it help out at all in terms of use of customized image based
(created in photoshop) buttons - i.e. where one has to manually slice up the
button image into pieces and then in the HTML have multiple DIVs around the
text to hook the button images pieces onto?  (i.e. gives web 2.0''ish
type
button but with the flexibility of the text itself not being part of the
image)

On 12/30/06, Michael Kovacs
<kovacs-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
>
> I''ve been using the Y! grids CSS which is kinda part of the YUI
> package. I''d recommend it as it makes it nice and
> easy to come up with a layout that fits whatever needs you have. You
> simply use their classes and structure
> your page containers properly and the heavy lifting is done for you
> in terms of laying out major components in your
> pages. This part of YUI does not compete with anything in rails and
> is very complimentary.
>
> -Michael
> http://javathehutt.blogspot.com
>
> On Dec 29, 2006, at 3:24 PM, Peter Michaux wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 12/29/06, Greg Hauptmann
<greg.hauptmann.ruby-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> The Yahoo UI library (YUI) seems to be getting popular.  A few
> >> questions if
> >> anyone has any knowledge/experience:
> >>
> >> Q1 - Would YUI complement a rails development?  Or does it compete
> >> directly
> >> with prototype/scriptaculous?
> >
> > It competes directly. Both libraries have Ajax components, Dom helpers
> > to find by classname, drag and drop. All the normal things. YUI has
> > good documentation and better JavaScript coding practices than
> > prototype/scriptaculous.
> >
> >
> >> Q2 - From the point of view of rich client web interfaces would
you
> >> recommend looking into YUI, or just stick with
> >> rails/prototype/scriptaculous?
> >
> >
> > I was disappointed enough with Prototype/Scriptaculous and I like the
> > Yahoo! UI enough that I have started a fork of the YUI to use with
> > Rails. My fork has forked quite a bit from YUI to make what I think
> > are some improvements but the main ideas of YUI guide many parts of my
> > fork. I have added the pieces needed to do all the nice Rails Ajax
> > stuff like RJS (though I think the ejs templates are better idea see
> > <URL: http://www.danwebb.net/2006/11/24/minusmor-released>). The
first
> > official release of Fork JavaScirpt is only a couple weeks off.
> >
> > <URL: http://forkjavascript.org>
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > >
>
>
> >
>
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As someone who tries very hard to follow web standards and separate style
from content [kinda like DRY for design. kinda] I''ve found jQuery to be
a
godsend. No more of that clunky, ugly embedded JavaScript inside your HTML.
It might be easy to use those javascript helpers in Rails but it
doesn''t
make for optimally DRY pages when each link restates the same code over and
over. Then again, we''re all big boy [and girl] coders and are writing
our
own code instead of relying on scaffolds and predefined helpers, right?

RSL

On 12/29/06, Greg Hauptmann
<greg.hauptmann.ruby-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> Michael - does it help out at all in terms of use of customized image
> based (created in photoshop) buttons - i.e. where one has to manually
> slice up the button image into pieces and then in the HTML have multiple
> DIVs around the text to hook the button images pieces onto?  ( i.e. gives
> web 2.0''ish type button but with the flexibility of the text
itself not
> being part of the image)
>
> On 12/30/06, Michael Kovacs <
kovacs-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I''ve been using the Y! grids CSS which is kinda part of the
YUI
> > package. I''d recommend it as it makes it nice and
> > easy to come up with a layout that fits whatever needs you have. You
> > simply use their classes and structure
> > your page containers properly and the heavy lifting is done for you
> > in terms of laying out major components in your
> > pages. This part of YUI does not compete with anything in rails and
> > is very complimentary.
> >
> > -Michael
> > http://javathehutt.blogspot.com
> >
> > On Dec 29, 2006, at 3:24 PM, Peter Michaux wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On 12/29/06, Greg Hauptmann
<greg.hauptmann.ruby-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> The Yahoo UI library (YUI) seems to be getting popular.  A
few
> > >> questions if
> > >> anyone has any knowledge/experience:
> > >>
> > >> Q1 - Would YUI complement a rails development?  Or does it
compete
> > >> directly
> > >> with prototype/scriptaculous?
> > >
> > > It competes directly. Both libraries have Ajax components, Dom
helpers
> > > to find by classname, drag and drop. All the normal things. YUI
has
> > > good documentation and better JavaScript coding practices than
> > > prototype/scriptaculous.
> > >
> > >
> > >> Q2 - From the point of view of rich client web interfaces
would you
> > >> recommend looking into YUI, or just stick with
> > >> rails/prototype/scriptaculous?
> > >
> > >
> > > I was disappointed enough with Prototype/Scriptaculous and I like
the
> > > Yahoo! UI enough that I have started a fork of the YUI to use
with
> > > Rails. My fork has forked quite a bit from YUI to make what I
think
> > > are some improvements but the main ideas of YUI guide many parts
of my
> > > fork. I have added the pieces needed to do all the nice Rails
Ajax
> > > stuff like RJS (though I think the ejs templates are better idea
see
> > > <URL:
http://www.danwebb.net/2006/11/24/minusmor-released>). The first
> > > official release of Fork JavaScirpt is only a couple weeks off.
> > >
> > > <URL: http://forkjavascript.org>
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
>
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On 1/3/07, Russell Norris <sconds-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> As someone who tries very hard to follow web standards and separate style
> from content [kinda like DRY for design. kinda] I''ve found jQuery
to be a
> godsend. No more of that clunky, ugly embedded JavaScript inside your HTML.
> It might be easy to use those javascript helpers in Rails but it
doesn''t
> make for optimally DRY pages when each link restates the same code over and
> over. Then again, we''re all big boy [and girl] coders and are
writing our
> own code instead of relying on scaffolds and predefined helpers, right?
>
> RSL
You know that the javascript library used has nothing to do with how
unobtrusive your code is, right?  You can write unobtrusive,
accessible js in Prototype, Dojo, or Jquery.

re: the builtin in helpers in Rails, use this instead: http://www.ujs4rails.com/

-- 
http://www.robsanheim.com
http://www.seekingalpha.com
http://www.ajaxian.com

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Agreed on the unobtrusive code with Prototype, et al. I didn''t mean to
make
it sound like those libraries always generate clunky code. It''s just
that
the close relationship between Rails'' javascript helpers [in-code
Javascript] and Prototype usually lead to a lot of onclick="whatever"
nonsense that, for me, is best handled with jQuery''s js file approach.
YMMV

RSL

On 1/3/07, Rob Sanheim <rsanheim-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
>
> On 1/3/07, Russell Norris
<sconds-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > As someone who tries very hard to follow web standards and separate
> style
> > from content [kinda like DRY for design. kinda] I''ve found
jQuery to be
> a
> > godsend. No more of that clunky, ugly embedded JavaScript inside your
> HTML.
> > It might be easy to use those javascript helpers in Rails but it
doesn''t
> > make for optimally DRY pages when each link restates the same code
over
> and
> > over. Then again, we''re all big boy [and girl] coders and are
writing
> our
> > own code instead of relying on scaffolds and predefined helpers,
right?
> >
> > RSL
>
> You know that the javascript library used has nothing to do with how
> unobtrusive your code is, right?  You can write unobtrusive,
> accessible js in Prototype, Dojo, or Jquery.
>
> re: the builtin in helpers in Rails, use this instead:
> http://www.ujs4rails.com/
>
> --
> http://www.robsanheim.com
> http://www.seekingalpha.com
> http://www.ajaxian.com
>
> >
>
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Hello,

I work on the YUI team at Yahoo!, and have included my thoughts below
in the hopes that it might help your investigation.
> Q1 - Would YUI complement a rails development?  Or does it compete directly
> with prototype/scriptaculous?
YUI has some functional overlap with p/s, but can exist on the same
page because it''s namespaced like all responsible page citizens should
be. (Locally recreating "$" is trivial, of course.)
> Q2 - From the point of view of rich client web interfaces would you
> recommend looking into YUI, or just stick with
> rails/prototype/scriptaculous?
+ YUI provides extensive documentation in many formats: complete API
documentation, extensive examples and tutorials, handy full-color
cheatsheets, and interaction matrices (for dragdrop and autocomplete)

+ YUI offers the exact lines of code powering scores of high-scale
yahoo products globally, and has a dedicated fulltime engineering team.

+ YUI benefits from Yahoo!''s teams of interaction designers, usability
experts, and user experience researchers.

+ YUI includes extensive Accessibility, Internationalization, and
Localization support.

+ YUI supports a wide range of browsers and OSs under our Graded
Browser Support philosophy:
http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/gbs.html

+ YUI takes a lightweight a la carte approach, and ships with three
versions of each file, normal (commented for human readability), -min
(for production environments) and -debug (which can pipe info to
Firebug or YUI''s Logger control.)

+ As mentioned, YUI''s namespacing protects your code and facilitates
collaboration and mashups.

It''s true that I am biased, but I think it is worth your time to take a
look and see for yourself. I hope the information above provides a
useful starting point for your consideration.


Thanks,
Nate

Nate Koechley
natek-ZXvpkYn067l8UrSeD/g0lQ@public.gmane.org
YUI Team, Yahoo! Inc.


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Nate,  (thanks for posting)

Any plans for a Ruby on Rails wrapper around YUI?  (i.e. along the lines
that Rails has assisted with prototype/scriptaculous?)


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