Rails - Nov 2006 - Selling A Rails Application

Hi All,

I am currently in the process of developing a CMS in rails aimed at web
designers. I am considering the different ways to sell this, mainly
offering a hosted solution of a downloadable package.

Offering a hosted solution seems better from the point of view that I
can manage the code more easily and keep the source hidden. But how
would users feel about having a hosted CMS service? Would people mind
not being able to choose their web hosts for the sites? What are your
views?

If I were to sell the software as a downloadable package, how would you
go about licensing? Obviously rails is open source - and presumably the
software would have to be open source as well? Is there any way to sell
a rails app in this way, and if so how?

Any suggestions would be interesting.

Many Thanks,

Mark Dodwell


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> I am currently in the process of developing a CMS in rails aimed at web
> designers. I am considering the different ways to sell this, mainly
> offering a hosted solution of a downloadable package.
Sorry, should read '' ... hosted solution *or* a downloadable package
... ''


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Mark Dodwell wrote:
> I am currently in the process of developing a CMS in rails aimed at 
> web designers. I am considering the different ways to sell this, 
> mainly offering a hosted solution or a downloadable package.
This doesn''t answer your question, but if you choose the latter you may
want to check this out:
http://www.rubyinside.com/distributing-a-rails-application-as-a-single-f
ile-289.html
- Mark.

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I''ve been trying to sell a hosted solution for a few months now, and
haven''t had a lot of luck.

My target customers even acknowledge that their skills in managing
such a system would be close to zero, and that they''d be far better
off in just about any sense having someone host it for them.

However, their big problem is with others having access to their data
- it''s been very difficult for me to get them to accept that their
data is many times more secure in a hosted environment than in their
own, half-assed data centre.  I still haven''t found the killer
argument in this area; they acknowledge that their own IT staff are
borderline incompetent and largely disinterested, they acknowledge
that all systems they run themselves are barely operational and that
the fault is with their people rather than the products themselves,
they acknowledge that having someone look after things for them would
in all likelihood give much greater availability and user happiness,
they acknowledge that my solution would be way cheaper than any
alternative they know of, and on and on it goes.

They even tell me that their data isn''t actually THAT sensitive, but
they still refuse to go with a hosted solution.

If anyone else has encountered this thinking and gotten past it, I''d
be very interested in finding out what you did.

Regards

Dave M.

On 06/11/06, markdodwell-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org
<markdodwell-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am currently in the process of developing a CMS in rails aimed at web
> designers. I am considering the different ways to sell this, mainly
> offering a hosted solution of a downloadable package.
>
> Offering a hosted solution seems better from the point of view that I
> can manage the code more easily and keep the source hidden. But how
> would users feel about having a hosted CMS service? Would people mind
> not being able to choose their web hosts for the sites? What are your
> views?
>
> If I were to sell the software as a downloadable package, how would you
> go about licensing? Obviously rails is open source - and presumably the
> software would have to be open source as well? Is there any way to sell
> a rails app in this way, and if so how?
>
> Any suggestions would be interesting.
>
> Many Thanks,
>
> Mark Dodwell
>
>
> >
>
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For what it''s worth, the industry in general is trending towards
software as a service (supporting your hosted solution option).  Take
the Salesforce.com success story.  Look at their client list and you''ll
see who is trusting *very* sensitive information with an ASP.

With that said, SFDC has no shortage of money to dump into it''s data
centers and security policies.  So in the end it''s the customer
perception of your ability to secure their customer data.

Hope that helps.



On Nov 6, 9:36 pm, "David Mitchell"
<monch1...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> I''ve been trying to sell a hosted solution for a few months now,
and
> haven''t had a lot of luck.
>
> My target customers even acknowledge that their skills in managing
> such a system would be close to zero, and that they''d be far
better
> off in just about any sense having someone host it for them.
>
> However, their big problem is with others having access to their data
> - it''s been very difficult for me to get them to accept that their
> data is many times more secure in a hosted environment than in their
> own, half-assed data centre.  I still haven''t found the killer
> argument in this area; they acknowledge that their own IT staff are
> borderline incompetent and largely disinterested, they acknowledge
> that all systems they run themselves are barely operational and that
> the fault is with their people rather than the products themselves,
> they acknowledge that having someone look after things for them would
> in all likelihood give much greater availability and user happiness,
> they acknowledge that my solution would be way cheaper than any
> alternative they know of, and on and on it goes.
>
> They even tell me that their data isn''t actually THAT sensitive,
but
> they still refuse to go with a hosted solution.
>
> If anyone else has encountered this thinking and gotten past it,
I''d
> be very interested in finding out what you did.
>
> Regards
>
> Dave M.
>
> On 06/11/06, markdodw...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org
<markdodw...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi All,
>
> > I am currently in the process of developing a CMS in rails aimed at
web
> > designers. I am considering the different ways to sell this, mainly
> > offering a hosted solution of a downloadable package.
>
> > Offering a hosted solution seems better from the point of view that I
> > can manage the code more easily and keep the source hidden. But how
> > would users feel about having a hosted CMS service? Would people mind
> > not being able to choose their web hosts for the sites? What are your
> > views?
>
> > If I were to sell the software as a downloadable package, how would
you
> > go about licensing? Obviously rails is open source - and presumably
the
> > software would have to be open source as well? Is there any way to
sell
> > a rails app in this way, and if so how?
>
> > Any suggestions would be interesting.
> 
> > Many Thanks,
> 
> > Mark Dodwell

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On 11/5/06, markdodwell-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org
<markdodwell-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> If I were to sell the software as a downloadable package, how would you
> go about licensing? Obviously rails is open source - and presumably the
> software would have to be open source as well?
Nope. AFAIK there''s no such clause in the rails or ruby licenses.
You''re thinking of GPL, which fortunately isn''t the only
license
around..


 Is there any way to sell
> a rails app in this way, and if so how?
>
..and even GPL''ed apps can be sold. But your customers would have the
source and full distribution rights.


This mailing list probably isn''t the best place to learn about open
source or licensing, though. I suggest you hit google/wikipedia, there
are volumes of proper info on this stuff out there. Then read the
ruby/rails licenses.


And don''t concern yourself too much about keeping the source hidden.
You''ll find some references in the archives for this ML, but imho
copyright law is the only thing that really protects you.

Any programmer worth his salt should be able to duplicate your
efforts, and maybe even do a better job at it as they can base their
work on the finished product. You''ll have to keep your customers happy
enough to not bother..



Isak

> Any suggestions would be interesting.
>
> Many Thanks,
>
> Mark Dodwell
>
>
> >
>
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Isak Hansen wrote:
> 
> Any programmer worth his salt should be able to duplicate your
> efforts, and maybe even do a better job at it as they can base their
> work on the finished product. You''ll have to keep your customers
happy
> enough to not bother..
> 
What this should tell you is that there''s more to being successful in 
this than just writing good code. First-to-market is gonna help the 
success of any good application, but whether you license and distribute 
code or provide a hosted solution, something really good is going to be 
duplicated, potentially quickly. So, you should find areas in which to 
differentiate yourself - customer service, installation help, process 
consulting, continuous improvement and enhancement, price - these are 
all things that you can try to do better than your (potential) 
competitors.

Bottom line, don''t fool yourself into thinking you can write a good app
and just sort of put it up and rake in the dough. The road is littered 
with really good programmers who failed at the business side of selling 
software. Treat it like any business - make a plan, work on your 
marketing, differentiate yourself - and write that good code.

c.

-- 
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Yes - there are a great many factors influencing success, and your  
chosen SaaS (software as a service) model is a factor that will  
influence operations, sales, & marketing (no to mention technology).

I have a pdf if you''re interested that explores these topics. Other  
than a technology implementor, I also consult executives on business  
plan development for hi-technology.

Don''t worry, I''m not trying to sell you my services.  grin.
But I can
offer you a primer on SaaS and the implications thereof.

I don''t want to flood the list with a 5 page PDF, but if you email me  
off list I''ll fire it off to you.

 From the intro:
"The following discussion studies the value proposition of SaaS,  
considerations of the business model and the sales, marketing and  
cultural and operational challenges it presents for corporations  
looking to deploy such a model."

good luck on your venture.
cheers,
Jodi

On 7-Nov-06, at 8:19 AM, Cayce Balara wrote:
>
> Isak Hansen wrote:
>>
>> Any programmer worth his salt should be able to duplicate your
>> efforts, and maybe even do a better job at it as they can base their
>> work on the finished product. You''ll have to keep your
customers
>> happy
>> enough to not bother..
>>
>
> What this should tell you is that there''s more to being successful
in
> this than just writing good code. First-to-market is gonna help the
> success of any good application, but whether you license and  
> distribute
> code or provide a hosted solution, something really good is going  
> to be
> duplicated, potentially quickly. So, you should find areas in which to
> differentiate yourself - customer service, installation help, process
> consulting, continuous improvement and enhancement, price - these are
> all things that you can try to do better than your (potential)
> competitors.
>
> Bottom line, don''t fool yourself into thinking you can write a
good
> app
> and just sort of put it up and rake in the dough. The road is littered
> with really good programmers who failed at the business side of  
> selling
> software. Treat it like any business - make a plan, work on your
> marketing, differentiate yourself - and write that good code.
>
> c.
>
> -- 
> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
>
> >

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markdodwell-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org
wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am currently in the process of developing a CMS in rails aimed at web
> designers. I am considering the different ways to sell this, mainly
> offering a hosted solution of a downloadable package.
Aren''t there several free CMS systems out there? You might as well try 
to sell a blogging system or an online forums system. Is there are 
market for it?

-matthew

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

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On 7-Nov-06, at 8:19 AM, Cayce Balara wrote:
>
> Isak Hansen wrote:
>>
>> Any programmer worth his salt should be able to duplicate your
>> efforts, and maybe even do a better job at it as they can base their
>> work on the finished product. You''ll have to keep your
customers
>> happy
>> enough to not bother..
>>
>
> What this should tell you is that there''s more to being successful
in
> this than just writing good code. First-to-market is gonna help the
> success of any good application, but whether you license and  
> distribute
> code or provide a hosted solution, something really good is going  
> to be
> duplicated, potentially quickly. So, you should find areas in which to
> differentiate yourself - customer service, installation help, process
> consulting, continuous improvement and enhancement, price - these are
> all things that you can try to do better than your (potential)
> competitors.
>
> Bottom line, don''t fool yourself into thinking you can write a
good
> app
> and just sort of put it up and rake in the dough. The road is littered
> with really good programmers who failed at the business side of  
> selling
> software. Treat it like any business - make a plan, work on your
> marketing, differentiate yourself - and write that good code.
This topic inspired me to finally launch a blog using the very nice  
Mephisto Blog/CMS system. To begin, I''ve edited down the SaaS PDF  
content, and will publish in 3 parts a www.nnovation.com/blog. I  
think this venue offers a more relevant place to discuss/share the  
business side of the ventures were running. Being a software engineer  
with an interest in business I hope I can provide a valuable  
perspective.

Plus having passed my 1st anniversary with rails, I"m hoping to  
contribute to the rails community more meaningfully - first using the  
blog, and secondly a pet project project I should be able to announce  
in a couple of weeks.

For those that got the PDF and have questions/comments please use the  
blog, plus those that didn''t but have some interest in the business  
side of running a software as a service I hope to see your comments.

Cheers,
Jodi
General Partner
The nNovation Group inc.
www.nnovation.ca/blog

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Isak Hansen wrote:
> Any programmer worth his salt should be able to duplicate your
> efforts, and maybe even do a better job at it as they can base their
> work on the finished product. You''ll have to keep your customers
happy
> enough to not bother..
Two things:

1) It''s not a matter of being able to have it duplicated at anytime -
It''s already been done. My company http://www.terapad.com does just
that, and on top of the advanced CMS we throw in a shopping cart,
recruitment tools, image gallery, online forums, and several kitchen
sinks. No it''s not free, but if you want to fool yourself that having
to
manually deploy a complex, ''narrow-band'' open source app is
the same as
having white glove support on a specialized commercial product with 10x
the features and 24/7 monitoring, be my guest :-D

2) Ultimately whether it''s been ''done before'' or not
is totally
irrelevant. Was YouTube really worth 1.6 billions? Is Digg unique? About
200 clones of each application scream ''no''. I reckon the OP
should
follow his dreams and go for it. I''ll welcome the competition myself ;D



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