We just lost our bid to develop in Ruby on Rails and have been told to go back to Java. The problem was that we couldn''t convince the guy in charge of the Apache server to help us out (he insisted that he was too busy to install fastcgi for example). Because he wouldn''t do it (and we CAN''T do it - not allowed) we couldn''t prove up front that it would work, a more senior colleague insisted to my boss that we were trying to make things more complicated and we''ve been told we can''t spend time developing in RoR. Yesterday I was gutted, but resigned to my fate, until I started up my text editor this morning and was struck with a dreadful sinking feeling. In Java this is going to take an UNBELIEVABLE AMOUNT OF MY TIME. I''ve really lost the motivation to continue. Are there any job opportunities for an RoR newbie who''s keen to learn? Alternatively, does anyone have any comforting words / cliches? Thanks to everyone who helped me out with all the questions I posted to the forum over the last few weeks. Dot -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
My Day job is a ROR developer! Get in!! -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
My 2c''s worth, If your giving up after loosing one battle, your not going to last long in a corporate environment. To convince a major bank to move from Token Ring to Ethernet it took me 2 1/2 years of corridor working, networking, & busines case writing, then another 2 years to implement. Things just don''t move that fast as there is more than just technology X is better than technology Y for management to consider. If you like the company & want to keep working there, my advise would be to change your approach, & consider the longer term commercial issues. 1. Cost of developing solution in RoR v''s Java 2. Cost of maintaing solution in RoR v''s Java [this includes training for staff] 3. Independant opinions of Industry trends If you can demonstrate a payback of less than 18 months, then its a very sell. At the same time, you will also have convince your influential co-workers that RoR is not a threat. If your not to attached the the company, then go & circulate that CV. Dot Dot wrote:> We just lost our bid to develop in Ruby on Rails and have been told to > go back to Java. > > The problem was that we couldn''t convince the guy in charge of the > Apache server to help us out (he insisted that he was too busy to > install fastcgi for example). Because he wouldn''t do it (and we CAN''T do > it - not allowed) we couldn''t prove up front that it would work, a more > senior colleague insisted to my boss that we were trying to make things > more complicated and we''ve been told we can''t spend time developing in > RoR. > > Yesterday I was gutted, but resigned to my fate, until I started up my > text editor this morning and was struck with a dreadful sinking feeling. > In Java this is going to take an UNBELIEVABLE AMOUNT OF MY TIME. I''ve > really lost the motivation to continue. > > Are there any job opportunities for an RoR newbie who''s keen to learn? > Alternatively, does anyone have any comforting words / cliches? > > Thanks to everyone who helped me out with all the questions I posted to > the forum over the last few weeks. > Dot-- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
What about JRuby? Apparently Java is moving to Ruby! -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Dot Dot wrote:> We just lost our bid to develop in Ruby on Rails and have > been told to go back to Java. > ... > does anyone have any comforting words / cliches?Hopefully this is comforting: Sun has just hired the JRuby team to work full time on JRuby. This makes Ruby the first official dynamic language supported by Sun on the JVM. http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/09/07/JRuby-guys In the above Tim Bray talks about making JRuby on Rails a compelling option. - Mark. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
"Einstein did his best work when he was working as a patent clerk!", Bill Murray, "Ghostbusters" -----Original Message----- From: rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com]On Behalf Of Dot Dot Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 5:57 AM To: rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [Rails] Gutted! We just lost our bid to develop in Ruby on Rails and have been told to go back to Java. The problem was that we couldn't convince the guy in charge of the Apache server to help us out (he insisted that he was too busy to install fastcgi for example). Because he wouldn't do it (and we CAN'T do it - not allowed) we couldn't prove up front that it would work, a more senior colleague insisted to my boss that we were trying to make things more complicated and we've been told we can't spend time developing in RoR. Yesterday I was gutted, but resigned to my fate, until I started up my text editor this morning and was struck with a dreadful sinking feeling. In Java this is going to take an UNBELIEVABLE AMOUNT OF MY TIME. I've really lost the motivation to continue. Are there any job opportunities for an RoR newbie who's keen to learn? Alternatively, does anyone have any comforting words / cliches? Thanks to everyone who helped me out with all the questions I posted to the forum over the last few weeks. Dot -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 9/8/06, Thomas, Mark - BLS CTR <Thomas.Mark-R43zzhgHTig@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Dot Dot wrote: > > We just lost our bid to develop in Ruby on Rails and have > > been told to go back to Java. > > ... > > does anyone have any comforting words / cliches? > > Hopefully this is comforting: Sun has just hired the JRuby team to work > full time on JRuby. This makes Ruby the first official dynamic language > supported by Sun on the JVM.Didn''t "groovy" beat Ruby in that regard? Or is it not "supported" beyond getting a JSR? -- Premature optimization is the root of all evil. -- Donald E. Knuth --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 9/8/06, Matt Stone <rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote: If your giving up after loosing one battle, your not going to last long> in a corporate environment.But if you bang your head on the fucking wall over battles you can''t win, you''re not going last long in life. Make your trade-offs where they''ll do the most good. If you like the company & want to keep working there, my advise would be to> change your approach, & consider the longer term commercial issues.From his manager''s point of view, the longer term commercial issues ARE being considered. 1. Cost of developing solution in RoR v''s Java ... when the programmers all know Java already, and more Javniks graduate every year... 2. Cost of maintaing solution in RoR v''s Java [this includes training for> staff]... when the staff maintaining the solution all know Java already... 3. Independant opinions of Industry trends ... when businesses in general and managers in specific can''t see beyond this quarter''s profit margin. It''s easy to get all philosophical over these issues, but the bottom line is that managers rarely see anything other than the bottom line. If you want to prove to your manager that you can develop better more maintainable code faster in Rails (and if you *do* want to prove this it better be true) then do just that - on your own time, write up a demo that shows off the features you believe are worth changing everything over. If they still won''t see it your way and it''s still a big issue for you, at least then you''ll have experience developing an actual application, something useful to show others who might be more amenable to the change. You can talk to your manager and IT guy and coworkers until the next ice age and not change any minds. But walk in a few weeks from now with an 80% (or 120%) solution developed in your spare time, and they''ll start paying attention. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> > Hopefully this is comforting: Sun has just hired the JRuby team to > > work full time on JRuby. This makes Ruby the first official dynamic > > language supported by Sun on the JVM. > > > Didn''t "groovy" beat Ruby in that regard? Or is it not "supported" > beyond getting a JSR?That''s correct; Ruby is the first that is financially supported by Sun. JSRs are approved by the JCP Executive Committee, not Sun directly. I, too, wonder what that means for Groovy. While it may not be Groovy''s death knell, it is certainly at least a hedged bet and may in fact be a vote of no-confidence in Groovy. Time will tell. It''s funny that the Groovy FAQ answer for "What is Groovy?" states, "Think of it as a Ruby or Python like language that is tightly integrated with the Java platform - allowing you the same powerful and concise coding syntax as Ruby or Pyton [sic] but allowing you to stay on the JVM..." Once JRuby reaches 1.0 (a Sun goal) will there be any need for Groovy? - Mark. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 9/8/06, Thomas, Mark - BLS CTR <Thomas.Mark-R43zzhgHTig@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > > > Hopefully this is comforting: Sun has just hired the JRuby team to > > > work full time on JRuby. This makes Ruby the first official dynamic > > > language supported by Sun on the JVM. >Does this mean that Rails would also run on JVM, or just Ruby? -- "Impossible is nothing." --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 9/8/06, zer0halo <zerohalo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Does this mean that Rails would also run on JVM, or just Ruby? >JRuby on Rails already works for simple apps, and we''re improving compatibility day-by-day. There are some quirky interpreter issues remaining to be fixed and our poor marshalling support prevents using anything other than the memory_store for session right now, but other than that things work pretty well and Rails is pretty snappy and responsive. I''ll be demoing a few Rails apps running under JRuby next week at RailsConf Europe, and talking about where we stand and where we''re going...especially in light of the Sun announcement. And yes, I lurk here watching for threads with the words "Java" or "JRuby" in them :) Feel free to join the JRuby lists or ask me questions offline as well. -- Contribute to RubySpec! @ www.headius.com/rubyspec Charles Oliver Nutter @ headius.blogspot.com Ruby User @ ruby.mn --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
zer0halo wrote:> > > On 9/8/06, *Thomas, Mark - BLS CTR* <Thomas.Mark-R43zzhgHTig@public.gmane.org > <mailto:Thomas.Mark-R43zzhgHTig@public.gmane.org>> wrote: > > > > > Hopefully this is comforting: Sun has just hired the JRuby team to > > > work full time on JRuby. This makes Ruby the first official dynamic > > > language supported by Sun on the JVM. > > > Does this mean that Rails would also run on JVM, or just Ruby? >Hi, Due to recent improvements in JRuby, Rails already runs mostly in JRuby. I''ve added mostly to the sentence since there are a few things that isn''t working yet, and performance will need to be improved. But Charles Nutter and Thomas Enebo actually showcased a working JRuby on Rails at JavaOne in May this year. -- Ola Bini (http://ola-bini.blogspot.com) JvYAML, RbYAML, JRuby and Jatha contributor System Developer, Karolinska Institutet (http://www.ki.se) OLogix Consulting (http://www.ologix.com) "Yields falsehood when quined" yields falsehood when quined. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 9/8/06, zer0halo <zerohalo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Does this mean that Rails would also run on JVM, or just Ruby? >Yes, it does. In fact, JRuby already runs Rails (mostly)... Jake --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 9/8/06, zer0halo <zerohalo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > > On 9/8/06, Thomas, Mark - BLS CTR <Thomas.Mark-R43zzhgHTig@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > > > Hopefully this is comforting: Sun has just hired the JRuby team to > > > > work full time on JRuby. This makes Ruby the first official dynamic > > > > language supported by Sun on the JVM. > > > > Does this mean that Rails would also run on JVM, or just Ruby?I think JRuby runs rails on a JVM /now/. -- Don''t get suckered in by the comments; they can be terribly misleading. Debug only code. -- Dave Storer --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Ahhh, good old office pollitics. I''m a RoR developer AND I work for myself, get in! Seriously, if you aren''t happy where you are; LEAVE! You only live once, may aswell spend that time doing something you enjoy. On 08/09/06, Dot Dot <rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > We just lost our bid to develop in Ruby on Rails and have been told to > go back to Java. > > The problem was that we couldn''t convince the guy in charge of the > Apache server to help us out (he insisted that he was too busy to > install fastcgi for example). Because he wouldn''t do it (and we CAN''T do > it - not allowed) we couldn''t prove up front that it would work, a more > senior colleague insisted to my boss that we were trying to make things > more complicated and we''ve been told we can''t spend time developing in > RoR. > > Yesterday I was gutted, but resigned to my fate, until I started up my > text editor this morning and was struck with a dreadful sinking feeling. > In Java this is going to take an UNBELIEVABLE AMOUNT OF MY TIME. I''ve > really lost the motivation to continue. > > Are there any job opportunities for an RoR newbie who''s keen to learn? > Alternatively, does anyone have any comforting words / cliches? > > Thanks to everyone who helped me out with all the questions I posted to > the forum over the last few weeks. > Dot > > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Dot Dot wrote:> We just lost our bid to develop in Ruby on Rails and have been told to > go back to Java. > > The problem was that we couldn''t convince the guy in charge of the > Apache server to help us out (he insisted that he was too busy to > install fastcgi for example). Because he wouldn''t do it (and we CAN''T do > it - not allowed) we couldn''t prove up front that it would work, a more > senior colleague insisted to my boss that we were trying to make things > more complicated and we''ve been told we can''t spend time developing in > RoR. > > Yesterday I was gutted, but resigned to my fate, until I started up my > text editor this morning and was struck with a dreadful sinking feeling. > In Java this is going to take an UNBELIEVABLE AMOUNT OF MY TIME. I''ve > really lost the motivation to continue. > > Are there any job opportunities for an RoR newbie who''s keen to learn? > Alternatively, does anyone have any comforting words / cliches?Dot At the beginning of a project like this, you have one set of risks relating to the requirements (are they understood?) and the solution (is it a good fit?) and a separate set of risks relating to the use of technology (what is the best way to do X in Spring MVC?). You can address these separately - you could build a prototype in Rails to find the best UI, object model, and data model for the application, and you could build representative "thin slices" of the application in your approved target technologies. If, after that, you do have to implement on Java you will have a very clear idea of what you need to do. It will also (a) buy time, and (b) let you show very clearly the differences between Rails and Java. Good luck! Justin --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I love programming RoR, but in my limited use I have run up against roadblocks that say Ruby and RoR are not mature enough yet for my shop. It is coming, but it isn''t there yet. Examples: 1. Between Ruby 1.8.2 and 1.8.3 the behavior of undefining constants that had not been defined changed. This broke the version of ActiveRecord that instiwiki depends on (making the three step install a 7 step install if you don''t count looking all over the internet for why "step 2 - run the application" was failing. The RUBY behavior changed in a manner that broke a core library. 2. ActiveRecord uses two slightly different idioms for handling primary keys. One idiom handles non-numeric primary keys well, the other idiom does not. The net result is that for most operations you can use ActiveRecord with legacy or distributed systems, but some operations fail. Before I get flamed, submitting the dozen or so lines of code fixes for review/approval/inclusion are number 8 on my priority list. 3. ActiveRecord dynamically generates SQL on every call, imposing the overhead of the prepare phase of the query on every call to the database. This seriously limits the scalability and performance of the platform, since in a single SQL call up to 80% of the resources used may be used during the prepare phase, before any of the work that the statement does is actually performed. In contrast, a prepared statement imposes that overhead once on the first call, and thereafter only the resources used in the actual work of the statement are used. When you''re on the heftiest hardware available and it''s already maxed out, this is not just a stumbling block, its a serious barrier. For what its worth, I do not feel that programming in Java is quite as bad as you seem to. Programming to EJB is that bad, and it is sad that the java world has become so bloated that we now have an acronym for plain old java objects (POJO). But let''s not blame the failings of clunky frameworks on the language. Now that Sun is officially supporting JRuby, it will not be long before your server guy will have no say in the matter because a ruby app, to him, will be a java app. Hang on, and work it into a small place first. It will grow. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 9/8/06, johnson_d-j9pdmedNgrk@public.gmane.org <johnson_d-j9pdmedNgrk@public.gmane.org> wrote:> 3. ActiveRecord dynamically generates SQL on every call, imposing the > overhead of the prepare phase of the query on every call to the > database. This seriously limits the scalability and performance of the > platform, since in a single SQL call up to 80% of the resources used > may be used during the prepare phase, before any of the work that the > statement does is actually performed.Is it dynamically generated SQL, or a dynamically generated prepared statement? If the latter, many databases will cache them locally. Even when you do not do the standard "prepare, call, call, call, *" sequence the db will pull the (prepared) statement from its cache and use it. Too, some DB drivers do this. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
johnson_d-j9pdmedNgrk@public.gmane.org wrote:> I love programming RoR, but in my limited use I have run up against > roadblocks that say Ruby and RoR are not mature enough yet for my shop. > It is coming, but it isn''t there yet. > > Examples: >What I know about RoR will fit in a thimble. What I know about working in "illegal" languages and trying to convince the overlords would fill a bookshelf. It comes down to this: If the company is worth sticking with, as a company, and this is the first kick in the head, then leaving might not be the best solution. You will get many kicks before you retire. Work in RoR on little projects in little pieces. For example -- develop a proof of concept on webrick. You don''t need the sys admins support for that and you can still demonstrate a viable product. If you are able to show how agile the development process is (develop segments in the meeting) then it will have an impact on someone. It may be a very long time, but it might prove more valuable to you and the company if you stick to doing this. --- I''ve been 5 years in a company that lives and breathes java. And there isn''t anyone in the company who actually does java code -- it''s all overseas developers. But I write things in Perl (sorry, Ruby just wasn''t on the radar 5 years ago) which is almost considered a sin. When I first started I had one friend (boss) and about 300 enemies (everyone in IT and all their contractors). Over time it became quite apparent that I was able to meet deadlines in my goofy perl code 10X faster than any java developer (yes, they love EJB) which stopped a lot of bleeding over these years. I have more friends now. I still can''t officially use Perl, but there are some significant and influential people who know when to look away. I recently started on the formal process (with IT support) of getting Perl blessed by the overlords. Once (if?) this is done, I can use it just about anywhere. --- Considering that RoR isn''t quite there, don''t feel you have to get your projects in production in a month. Consider security -- you would be *much* better off pitching for a language that hasn''t had any security issues in the news lately. If you pick a language that isn''t as mature as they are accustomed to, you will hurt yourself. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Michael Campbell wrote:> Is it dynamically generated SQL, or a dynamically generated prepared > statement? If the latter, many databases will cache them locally. > Even when you do not do the standard "prepare, call, call, call, *" > sequence the db will pull the (prepared) statement from its cache and > use it. Too, some DB drivers do this.RoR uses dynamically generated SQL. The reason given is that not all RDBMS'' support prepared statements. Until recently, MySQL did not support prepared statements at all. Last I heard (which is not gospel since I do follow MySQL''s status at all), its prepared statement support was still quite flaky. After MySQL''s purchase of Netfrastructure, I believe that it is more worthwhile following their status now than it was a year ago. Since most RoR showcase work is done with MySQL, MySQL''s weaknesses became the driver for the ActiveRecord''s approach. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
It looks like my post and the OP''s posts were confused here. On company time I have given my assessment that RoR is a "watch" technology that is worth re-evaluating in a year, after the some of the out-standing maturity issues in the language and platform have been ironed out by its users. My RoR projects are on my time. On my own time and for my own projects, I will participate in bringing about the changes that I see as necessary before I can recommend the platform to my employers. Honestly, I mostly see a little bit of code cleanup required at some key points that impact large scale environments but not small scale environments. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
It looks like my post and the OP''s posts were confused here. On company time I have given my assessment that RoR is a "watch" technology that is worth re-evaluating in a year, after the some of the out-standing maturity issues in the language and platform have been ironed out by its users. My RoR projects are on my time. On my own time and for my own projects, I will participate in bringing about the changes that I see as necessary before I can recommend the platform to my employers. Honestly, I mostly see a little bit of code cleanup required at some key points that impact large scale environments but not small scale environments. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 9/8/06, johnson_d-j9pdmedNgrk@public.gmane.org <johnson_d-j9pdmedNgrk@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > Michael Campbell wrote: > > > > Is it dynamically generated SQL, or a dynamically generated prepared > > statement? ...> RoR uses dynamically generated SQL. The reason given is that not all > RDBMS'' support prepared statements. > > Until recently, MySQL did not support prepared statements at all. Last > I heard (which is not gospel since I do follow MySQL''s status at all), > its prepared statement support was still quite flaky. After MySQL''s > purchase of Netfrastructure, I believe that it is more worthwhile > following their status now than it was a year ago. > > Since most RoR showcase work is done with MySQL, MySQL''s weaknesses > became the driver for the ActiveRecord''s approach. >Interesting, and good info. Thanks! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I worked for 25 years in product development (mechanical). Here''s what I found: selling a new concept is like hitting a big rock with a hammer. The first two times you hit it, nothing happens. The third time, it falls in two. I never figured out how to go directly to the third blow. But Tom Allison has a good approach, in my experience:> Work in RoR on little projects in little pieces. > > For example -- develop a proof of concept on webrick. You don''t need the sys > admins support for that and you can still demonstrate a viable product. If you > are able to show how agile the development process is (develop segments in the > meeting) then it will have an impact on someone. >Except that you might want to use Mongrel. Eventually, people will notice that your proof-of-concept is better than ''their'' finished product. Or, people will just start using your proof-of-concept "informally" until the java version is finished, and eventually, someone will ask "Why do we even do the java version?" Remember: you can get anything you want in life, as long as you don''t care who takes the credit. Ron --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---