Rails - Aug 2006 - Rails thread safety and impact on corporate adoption

Hi All

We all know that Rails is not thread safe.

However I was wondering if DHH and team were taking a look at this, since
this will have a heavy impact on RoR''s corporate adoption. Lets face
it, no
corporate would want to spend many many man hours debugging concurrency
related problem and won''t adopt anything that is not thread safe.

Your thoughts .....


Regards
-daya


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linux user wrote:

 > Lets face it, no corporate would want to spend many many man hours 
debugging
 > concurrency related problem and won''t adopt anything that is not
thread
 > safe.

Really? And why do you think that? While I do agree that thread safety
would be a nice addition to rails, it''s far from being the most
important, or the single barring issue to corporate adoption.

Right now rails is simple to code -- the user doesn''t have to worry
about concurrency issues, since there''s no concurrency at all. And
contrary to what people usually think, that doesn''t hinder scaling,
unless we''re talking about an application with a -really- high
concurrency level -- the likes we don''t see every day.

As closing words, I''m with David on this subject[1]. We don''t
need
corporate adoption.

[1] http://www.loudthinking.com/arc/000577.html

-- Pazu


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i don''t really understand why people keep asking about concurrency and 
threading issues. you don''t normally use threads yourself in a web 
application - to do so would be bad practice. any situation in which 
your going to need threads is likely to be a long running operation that 
you should be handling with an external program that runs on the server, 
but not in the webserver. you would then use threading inside that 
program and some kind of ipc to send jobs its way, with a status file 
the web app can read to determine how things are going, or get the 
program to fire off an email message or something. It''s not just rails 
we''re talking about here, its the same for any web application.

Pazu wrote:
> linux user wrote:
>
>  > Lets face it, no corporate would want to spend many many man hours 
> debugging
>  > concurrency related problem and won''t adopt anything that is
not thread
>  > safe.
>
> Really? And why do you think that? While I do agree that thread safety
> would be a nice addition to rails, it''s far from being the most
> important, or the single barring issue to corporate adoption.
>
> Right now rails is simple to code -- the user doesn''t have to
worry
> about concurrency issues, since there''s no concurrency at all. And
> contrary to what people usually think, that doesn''t hinder
scaling,
> unless we''re talking about an application with a -really- high
> concurrency level -- the likes we don''t see every day.
>
> As closing words, I''m with David on this subject[1]. We
don''t need
> corporate adoption.
>
> [1] http://www.loudthinking.com/arc/000577.html
>
> -- Pazu
>
>
> >
>   
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On 8/25/06, linux user
<fanoflinux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> Hi All
>
> We all know that Rails is not thread safe.
>
> However I was wondering if DHH and team were taking a look at this, since
> this will have a heavy impact on RoR''s corporate adoption. Lets
face it, no
> corporate would want to spend many many man hours debugging concurrency
> related problem and won''t adopt anything that is not thread safe.
>
> Your thoughts .....
>
Please see the thread that was started yesterday on the same topic.

jeremy


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On Aug 25, 2006, at 1:44 PM, Jeremy Wells wrote:
> i don''t really understand why people keep asking about concurrency
> and threading issues. you don''t normally use threads yourself in a
> web application - to do so would be bad practice.
you probably wouldn''t, but the app might at the infrastructure level  
-- instead of using a cluster of mongrel apps you''d have a single app  
which spawned threads to handle incoming requests.

the value of this is somewhat debatable:  ruby threading isn''t  
particularly fast, so it isn''t clear that you''d save anything
on
speed unless you''re ram constrained.  on top of that, everyone from  
dhh to you has to be more careful about concurrency, and if any  
single thread goes south you take out the entire server process  
rather than one user request.

-faisal


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