Rails - Jul 2006 - Juggernaut Released - (a.k.a Armageddon)

I''ve just released Juggernaut - a plugin for ruby on rails.
Check out the site: http://juggernaut.rubyforge.org

I?ve also finished a demo that illustrates some of Juggernuat?s 
capabilities. You can sign up for an account here: 
http://alexmaccaw.no-ip.info:3500/login/sign_up . It might be a tad slow 
as it?s running from my home machine.

Juggernaut for Ruby on Rails initiates a flash xmlsocket between server 
and browser allowing real time communication between the two. This opens 
the door to all sorts of functionality such as chats and collaborative 
wikis/cms. The open socket connection allows the server to
''push'' base64
encoded javascript to the browser which is subsequently decoded and 
evaluated.

What Happens:

   1. Client A opens socket connection to the socket server
   2. Client B makes Ajax call to Rails
   3. Rails sends message to the socket server
   4. Socket server broadcasts message to clients

Juggernaut Features:

    * Allows a real time connection with a client - Rails can literally 
push javascript in real time to the client which is then evaluated.
    * Push server - written in Ruby.
    * Integrated, as a plugin, into Rails.
    * Subscribers can subscribe to multiple channels, and broadcasters 
can broadcast to multiple channels. Channels are sent as a base64 
encoded array - from the session.
    * Uses Flash 6 - installed on more than 95% of computers.
    * Supports all the major browsers (uses fscommand): Firefox 1+, IE 
6+ and Safari 2+.

Requirements:

    * Rails 1.1+
    * json gem (gem install json)

Feedback would be very welcome.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

On Jul 20, 2006, at 12:49 AM, Alex MacCaw wrote:
> I''ve just released Juggernaut - a plugin for ruby on rails.
> Check out the site: http://juggernaut.rubyforge.org
> <snip>
>
> Requirements:
>
>     * Rails 1.1+
>     * json gem (gem install json)
>
> Feedback would be very welcome.
>
>

Very cool Alex. I''ll definitely play with this ;)

-Ezra

What special server configuration is required for Juggernaut?

Thanks,
Peter


On 7/20/06, Alex MacCaw <maccman@gmail.com> wrote:
> I''ve just released Juggernaut - a plugin for ruby on rails.
> Check out the site: http://juggernaut.rubyforge.org
>
> I''ve also finished a demo that illustrates some of
Juggernuat''s
> capabilities. You can sign up for an account here:
> http://alexmaccaw.no-ip.info:3500/login/sign_up . It might be a tad slow
> as it''s running from my home machine.
>
> Juggernaut for Ruby on Rails initiates a flash xmlsocket between server
> and browser allowing real time communication between the two. This opens
> the door to all sorts of functionality such as chats and collaborative
> wikis/cms. The open socket connection allows the server to
''push'' base64
> encoded javascript to the browser which is subsequently decoded and
> evaluated.
>
> What Happens:
>
>    1. Client A opens socket connection to the socket server
>    2. Client B makes Ajax call to Rails
>    3. Rails sends message to the socket server
>    4. Socket server broadcasts message to clients
>
> Juggernaut Features:
>
>     * Allows a real time connection with a client - Rails can literally
> push javascript in real time to the client which is then evaluated.
>     * Push server - written in Ruby.
>     * Integrated, as a plugin, into Rails.
>     * Subscribers can subscribe to multiple channels, and broadcasters
> can broadcast to multiple channels. Channels are sent as a base64
> encoded array - from the session.
>     * Uses Flash 6 - installed on more than 95% of computers.
>     * Supports all the major browsers (uses fscommand): Firefox 1+, IE
> 6+ and Safari 2+.
>
> Requirements:
>
>     * Rails 1.1+
>     * json gem (gem install json)
>
> Feedback would be very welcome.
>
> --
> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

On 7/20/06, Peter Michaux <petermichaux@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What special server configuration is required for Juggernaut?
I should reword this as you said Rails 1.1 and json gem...

Juggernaut does not need twisted or anything fancy on the server?

Thanks,
Peter

Alex MacCaw wrote:
> I''ve just released Juggernaut - a plugin for ruby on rails.
> Check out the site: http://juggernaut.rubyforge.org
This is definately a cool, cool project.  Back when I use to work with 
Flash a little more I realized how powerfull it actually is when used by 
an experienced person, just like Alex has shown here.

However, what I predicted would hinder Flash was the way it was being 
used for these online ads that flash, flicker, move, beep, etc.  You see 
them EVERYWHERE and they are annoying.  So much so that a lot of people 
use things like Flash Blocker or other tools.  If it wasn''t for 
Homestarrunner.com I wouldn''t even have Flash installed.  This is what
I
present as a problem.  You cannot rely on Flash being installed 
(although it almost always is) nor can you rely on it being activated, 
nor can you assume people can hit anything other than port 80 due to 
firewalls, etc.  I also worry about Adobe being the new custodians of 
Flash.  I''ve never thought very highly of Adobe.  Here is a company
that
is taking well over a year to bring out universal binaries to the Mac 
for flagship products.  They had a year of warning prior to begin the 
road to universal binaries and now they need another year to get 
something out???  Two years?  How bad was their codebase?  did they 
follow any Apple Cocoa, etc. standards?  Something is really wrong 
there.  That is not a good sign for Flash.

Not to throw a wet towel onto the fire, this is a very cool project and 
I''ve already played around with it.  I just wouldn''t want to
bet the
farm on such things in the future.  Its *niche* at best, and thats not 
really a bad thing depending on your use and end target.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Peter Michaux wrote:
> On 7/20/06, Peter Michaux <petermichaux@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What special server configuration is required for Juggernaut?
> 
> I should reword this as you said Rails 1.1 and json gem...
> 
> Juggernaut does not need twisted or anything fancy on the server?
> 
> Thanks,
> Peter
No - Juggernaut doesn''t apart from a push server (included) - which 
manages subscribed users. You can''t make everything part of rails as 
rails uses Fast CGI so can''t handle the long lived connections that 
Juggernaut implements. The push server is made in ruby.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

> However, what I predicted would hinder Flash was the way it was being 
> used for these online ads that flash, flicker, move, beep, etc.  You see 
> them EVERYWHERE and they are annoying.  So much so that a lot of people 
> use things like Flash Blocker or other tools.  If it wasn''t for 
> Homestarrunner.com I wouldn''t even have Flash installed.
yeah, im not too annoyed that i cant even install flash (amd64 version still
vapourware)

i think the firefox people are on the ball, and long-lived sockets would be a
nice addition to the platform..
> Not to throw a wet towel onto the fire, this is a very cool project and 
> I''ve already played around with it.  I just wouldn''t want
to bet the
> farm on such things in the future.  Its *niche* at best, and thats not 
> really a bad thing depending on your use and end target.
flash now doesnt mean no native in the future, either via a "comet.js"
or built-in functionality. its neat to see this infrastructure in place for
rails, i thought i was going to need to switch to twisted :)

a blog post explaining how this compares to EventMachine, or how to integrate
eventmachine into rails, using backgrounDRb would be cool. essentially i want to
control a single icecast source via the web, ''interrupting''
the current read location based on requests, and a bit bewildered how to send
messages to loops running in other threads etc :)

>
>
> No - Juggernaut doesn''t apart from a push server (included) -
which
> manages subscribed users. You can''t make everything part of rails
as
> rails uses Fast CGI so can''t handle the long lived connections
that
> Juggernaut implements. The push server is made in ruby.

Any plans to implement the push server in native C ? That should give
tremendous performance increase.

-- 
rm -rf / 2>/dev/null - http://null.in

"Things do not happen. Things are made to happen." - JFK
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On 7/20/06, Pratik <pratiknaik@gmail.com> wrote:
> Any plans to implement the push server in native C ? That should give
> tremendous performance increase.
As well as tremendously reduce portability? See thread on binary
extensions and Win32.

I expect the push server will be mainly I/O constrained not CPU
constrained. And the underlying socket code for Ruby is in C, any way,
isn''t it?

-- G.

Mongrel for example over webrick ?

On 7/21/06, Guido Sohne <guido@sohne.net> wrote:
>
> On 7/20/06, Pratik <pratiknaik@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Any plans to implement the push server in native C ? That should give
> > tremendous performance increase.
>
> As well as tremendously reduce portability? See thread on binary
> extensions and Win32.
>
> I expect the push server will be mainly I/O constrained not CPU
> constrained. And the underlying socket code for Ruby is in C, any way,
> isn''t it?
>
> -- G.
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>


-- 
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"Things do not happen. Things are made to happen." - JFK
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Webrick is an HTTP server. 3000 lines of Ruby. Sockets mainly used
only in httprequest.rb and httpresponse.rb. Most of the Webrick code
is *not* doing anything with the sockets.

-- G.

On 7/20/06, Pratik <pratiknaik@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mongrel for example over webrick ?
>
>
> On 7/21/06, Guido Sohne <guido@sohne.net> wrote:
> >
>  On 7/20/06, Pratik <pratiknaik@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Any plans to implement the push server in native C ? That should give
> > tremendous performance increase.
>
>  As well as tremendously reduce portability? See thread on binary
> extensions and Win32.
>
> I expect the push server will be mainly I/O constrained not CPU
> constrained. And the underlying socket code for Ruby is in C, any way,
> isn''t it?
>
> -- G.
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
>  http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
>
>
> --
> rm -rf / 2>/dev/null - http://null.in
>
> "Things do not happen. Things are made to happen." - JFK
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
>
>

Pratik Naik wrote:
>>
>>
>> No - Juggernaut doesn''t apart from a push server (included) -
which
>> manages subscribed users. You can''t make everything part of
rails as
>> rails uses Fast CGI so can''t handle the long lived connections
that
>> Juggernaut implements. The push server is made in ruby.
> 
> 
> Any plans to implement the push server in native C ? That should give
> tremendous performance increase.
> 
> --
> rm -rf / 2>/dev/null - http://null.in
> 
> "Things do not happen. Things are made to happen." - JFK
I''m looking at C and also the twisted framework. If anyone could lend a
hand in porting over the push server I''d be very grateful.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Just found this at http://juggernaut.rubyforge.org/faq.html :

*Doesn''t a Ruby webserver take up a lot of resources and is quite slow?
*With many threads you might see performance issues. My advice is to
re-write the push server in C - please let me know if you''ve done this.

On 7/21/06, Guido Sohne <guido@sohne.net> wrote:
>
> Webrick is an HTTP server. 3000 lines of Ruby. Sockets mainly used
> only in httprequest.rb and httpresponse.rb. Most of the Webrick code
> is *not* doing anything with the sockets.
>
> -- G.
>
> On 7/20/06, Pratik <pratiknaik@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Mongrel for example over webrick ?
> >
> >
> > On 7/21/06, Guido Sohne <guido@sohne.net> wrote:
> > >
> >  On 7/20/06, Pratik <pratiknaik@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Any plans to implement the push server in native C ? That should
give
> > > tremendous performance increase.
> >
> >  As well as tremendously reduce portability? See thread on binary
> > extensions and Win32.
> >
> > I expect the push server will be mainly I/O constrained not CPU
> > constrained. And the underlying socket code for Ruby is in C, any way,
> > isn''t it?
> >
> > -- G.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails mailing list
> > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> >  http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > rm -rf / 2>/dev/null - http://null.in
> >
> > "Things do not happen. Things are made to happen." - JFK
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails mailing list
> > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>


-- 
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"Things do not happen. Things are made to happen." - JFK
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Pratik Naik wrote:
> Just found this at http://juggernaut.rubyforge.org/faq.html :
> 
> *Doesn''t a Ruby webserver take up a lot of resources and is quite
slow?
> *With many threads you might see performance issues. My advice is to
> re-write the push server in C - please let me know if you''ve done
this.

I''m just reiterating what DHH said here: 
http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/62907

>Currently just using threads. But this is stupid simple stuff. The
>socket server is tiny. It''s an obvious fit to rewrite it in C to
get
>blazing speed. All the socket server does is match IDs to sockets and
>pass messages through.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

On 7/20/06, Alex MacCaw <maccman@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Currently just using threads. But this is stupid simple stuff. The
> >socket server is tiny. It''s an obvious fit to rewrite it in C
to get
> >blazing speed. All the socket server does is match IDs to sockets and
> >pass messages through.
Well, it''s hard to argue with DHH, isn''t it? :-)

Also, have done a little research on my own and I now see that the
server is an external process, so Pratik is probably right then.

-- G.

On 7/21/06, Pratik <pratiknaik@gmail.com> wrote:
>  ... My advice is to
> re-write the push server in C - please let me know if you''ve done
this.
Not C, but Perl. Still can be useful:

[ http://cometd.com/ ] - Cometd is a scalable HTTP-based event routing
bus that uses a push technology pattern known as Comet.

I''ve just released a new version that fixes some of the caveats of the 
previous one.

Release Notes:

    * Allows communication over port 443, won?t get blocked by 
firewalls.
    * Fixes some errors in the push server.
    * Moved Flash Player up to Player 7 (still supported by linux).

Grab it from rubyforge: http://rubyforge.org/frs/?group_id=1884

-- 
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