Thanks to all for the advice on my previous post. I''m a little bit further down the road now with learning about associations and have got the skeleton of an Ajax tool in place (to add and remove items). I''m now a little confused over this detail in the api docs: "Any additional fields added to the join table will be placed as attributes when pulling records out through has_and_belongs_to_many associations" http://api.rubyonrails.com/classes/ActiveRecord/Associations/ ClassMethods.html#M000436 But from what I can find, the extra fields aren''t being added to my associated objects. I did some searching, which threw up the suggestion that :finder_sql needs to be used to override the default SQL which apparently *doesn''t* add the additional fields! Does anyone have any insight on this? -Phil