Hi, I have tried to buy on line beta book via pragmatic programmer site (http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/titles/rails/index.html) After many unsuccessful tries (and my bank''s ignorance - they just don''t provide information what was the reason of the transaction failure ?!), I have gave up. Tonight, I have seen that I can order the book on the www.amazon.com. I have done it without problems. The question is: Is there possibility to get BETA PDF Book ? I would really like NOT to wait until the august for the printed version. I will submit all the necessary info about amazon order, of course. Thank you in advance. P.S: There was many questions on this list about the book, so I was free to post this here. I hope this is ok. --- Ernad Husremovic Sigma-com software Bosnia and Herzegovina
On 6/7/05, Ernad Husremovic <ernad.husremovic-hTeBS0vnBbImp8TqCH86vg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> The question is: Is there possibility to get BETA PDF Book ? I would > really like NOT to wait until the august for the printed version. > > I will submit all the necessary info about amazon order, of course.That would be nice to buy the book at Amazon for $23.07 and get the PDF now too. -- Greg Donald Zend Certified Engineer http://destiney.com/
On 6/8/05, Greg Donald <destiney-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On 6/7/05, Ernad Husremovic <ernad.husremovic-hTeBS0vnBbImp8TqCH86vg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > The question is: Is there possibility to get BETA PDF Book ? I would > > really like NOT to wait until the august for the printed version. > > > > I will submit all the necessary info about amazon order, of course. > > That would be nice to buy the book at Amazon for $23.07 and get the PDF now too.Just remember, the big booksellers (Amazon, Borders, wal-mart etc.) absolutely annihilate the margins that small publishers need. I''ve no idea what Dave Thomas'' situation is, but I wouldn''t be surprised if they make several times the profit from a local sale vs a reseller one.> -- > Greg Donald > Zend Certified Engineer > http://destiney.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >-- Cheers Koz
On 6/8/05, Michael Koziarski <koziarski-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > That would be nice to buy the book at Amazon for $23.07 and get the PDF now too. > > Just remember, the big booksellers (Amazon, Borders, wal-mart etc.) > absolutely annihilate the margins that small publishers need. I''ve > no idea what Dave Thomas'' situation is, but I wouldn''t be surprised if > they make several times the profit from a local sale vs a reseller > one.Stupid Send button is right next to Save Draft. What I''m trying to get at is that if you''re generally struggling to afford what Dave & Andy are charging, then order from amazon. But if you want to order support small publishers, buy direct.> > -- > > Greg Donald > > Zend Certified Engineer > > http://destiney.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Rails mailing list > > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > > > > -- > Cheers > > Koz >-- Cheers Koz
On 6/7/05, Michael Koziarski <koziarski-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On 6/8/05, Greg Donald <destiney-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > On 6/7/05, Ernad Husremovic <ernad.husremovic-hTeBS0vnBbImp8TqCH86vg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > The question is: Is there possibility to get BETA PDF Book ? I would > > > really like NOT to wait until the august for the printed version. > > > > > > I will submit all the necessary info about amazon order, of course. > > > > That would be nice to buy the book at Amazon for $23.07 and get the PDF now too. > > Just remember, the big booksellers (Amazon, Borders, wal-mart etc.) > absolutely annihilate the margins that small publishers need. I''ve > no idea what Dave Thomas'' situation is, but I wouldn''t be surprised if > they make several times the profit from a local sale vs a reseller > one.Dave''s mentioned that he makes more on direct sales (as expected), so if you can, order direct. It''s possible that the problem with Ernad''s order is simply a paranoid shopping cart. Many of the cart systems get a deluge of credit card fraud from the eastern European countries, and the easiest solution is to just shut them off based on the country codes. It''s not a great situation, but such is life in the world of e-commerce. That''s just a guess, but it''s an educated one.> > -- > > Greg Donald > > Zend Certified Engineer > > http://destiney.com/-- Bill Guindon (aka aGorilla)
On 6/7/05, Michael Koziarski <koziarski-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > On 6/8/05, Greg Donald <destiney-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > On 6/7/05, Ernad Husremovic <ernad.husremovic-hTeBS0vnBbImp8TqCH86vg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > The question is: Is there possibility to get BETA PDF Book ? I would > > > really like NOT to wait until the august for the printed version. > > > > > > I will submit all the necessary info about amazon order, of course. > > > > That would be nice to buy the book at Amazon for $23.07 and get the PDF > now too. > > Just remember, the big booksellers (Amazon, Borders, wal-mart etc.) > absolutely annihilate the margins that small publishers need. I''ve > no idea what Dave Thomas'' situation is, but I wouldn''t be surprised if > they make several times the profit from a local sale vs a reseller > one.What?!? You mean that If I order it direct from the author/publisher for $35, he''ll make more then if I order it from a reseller for $23? Shocking! Seriously, unless Dave is a REALLY bad business man (and I assume he isn''t) he makes a reasonable profit when he wholesales the books to resellers such as Amazon. Certainly (obviously) he will make more money if you order it direct, but it''s not like he''ll lose money otherwise. In fact, if Rails is anywhere near as successful as many of us assume it will be, he stands to make a LOT of money on this bok regardless of where you order it from. _______________________________________________ Rails mailing list Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> Mike Payson wrote: > > That would be nice to buy the book at Amazon for $23.07 and get > the PDF now too. >As I sad in my post, I went to Amazon store *after* many unsuccessful tries to buy beta book directly from the http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/. My card is processed on amazon at first try. I am sorry if you think that I intended to be "smarter" than the rest community. Even in my country 20-30$ is not something which is wort of that :). So, If my previous request is inappropriate, I am still interested is there another convenient way to buy PDF copy of BETA book. According to the reviews I have read, I think it is worth of "double" purchase. Regards, ----- Ernad Husremovic ernad.husremovic-hTeBS0vnBbImp8TqCH86vg@public.gmane.org http://www.sigma-com.net
Mike Payson wrote:> > What?!? You mean that If I order it direct from the author/publisher for > $35, he''ll make more then if I order it from a reseller for $23? Shocking! > > Seriously, unless Dave is a REALLY bad business man (and I assume he > isn''t) he makes a reasonable profit when he wholesales the books to > resellers such as Amazon. Certainly (obviously) he will make more money > if you order it direct, but it''s not like he''ll lose money otherwise. In > fact, if Rails is anywhere near as successful as many of us assume it > will be, he stands to make a LOT of money on this bok regardless of > where you order it from.Mike, of course Dave isn''t losing money when you buy from Amazon, but please don''t marginalize the difference. The profits through a large retailer are minuscule. As has been said before, if you can''t afford it any other way, then buy through Amazon. Otherwise, let''s support the Pragmatic Bookshelf. Who else in the publishing business is selling DRM-free PDFs? Who else is is releasing betabooks so that we can get our hands on them early? Dave and Andy are taking a huge risk here. Lets support them however we can. Curt
>Curt Hibbs wrote: > As has been said before, if you can''t afford it any other way, then > buy through Amazon.But, that wasn''t my reason of choosing Amazon, as has been said in my previous post.> Who else in the publishing business is selling DRM-free PDFs? Who else is is > releasing betabooks so that we can get our hands on them early? > > Dave and Andy are taking a huge risk here. Lets support them however we > can. > > CurtThe idea of beta books is *great*. It is literally "agile" publishing approach. Ernad
On Wednesday 08 June 2005 14:25, Curt Hibbs wrote:> As has been said before, if you can''t afford it any other way, then buy > through Amazon. Otherwise, let''s support the Pragmatic Bookshelf. Who > else in the publishing business is selling DRM-free PDFs? Who else is is > releasing betabooks so that we can get our hands on them early?Manning (http://www.manning.com/) has been doing this for quite a while now. Oh, I''m delighted that Pragmatic has also decided to try this out, but they are hardly the first to do this :). Unless Manning and Pragmatic are part of the same conglomerate or something, I wouldn''t know. In any case, I really like this trend in publishing, and just bought the PDF beta of the Rails book. Looks great, and it''s in color. Whee :). Computer books are usually huge, shelf-filling bricks that become obsolete within the year, they are pretty much the optimal use case for PDF publishing. I do like dead tree books more, but for stuff like this PDFs are just so very convenient. In addition, they make things like this "beta release" possible. //Petri
On 6/8/05, Curt Hibbs <curt-fk6st7iWb8MAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Mike Payson wrote: > > > > What?!? You mean that If I order it direct from the author/publisher for > > $35, he''ll make more then if I order it from a reseller for $23? Shocking! > > > > Seriously, unless Dave is a REALLY bad business man (and I assume he > > isn''t) he makes a reasonable profit when he wholesales the books to > > resellers such as Amazon. Certainly (obviously) he will make more money > > if you order it direct, but it''s not like he''ll lose money otherwise. In > > fact, if Rails is anywhere near as successful as many of us assume it > > will be, he stands to make a LOT of money on this bok regardless of > > where you order it from. > > Mike, of course Dave isn''t losing money when you buy from Amazon, but > please don''t marginalize the difference. The profits through a large > retailer are minuscule. > > As has been said before, if you can''t afford it any other way, then buy > through Amazon. Otherwise, let''s support the Pragmatic Bookshelf. Who > else in the publishing business is selling DRM-free PDFs? Who else is is > releasing betabooks so that we can get our hands on them early? > > Dave and Andy are taking a huge risk here. Lets support them however we can. > > CurtTrue, tech books have limited sales potential, but that''s why they''re priced so high. If it wasn''t a profitable business, there wouldn''t be so many companies competing for the marketplace. And remember, Dave''s not just the author, but the publisher as well, so his margin per book is substantially higher then if he were just the author. Don''t get me wrong-- I''m not saying that you shouldn''t buy it from directly from Dave-- I bought the Beta PDF myself. But you shouldn''t feel guilty if you choose to order from Amazon or whoever. All evidence suggests that Dave -isn''t- a bad business man, so I expect that this book will be quite profitable for him, regardless of where you order it from. (To be fair, the poster that I replied to followed up saying basically the same thing, but I hadn''t read it when I replied.) BTW, the beta books aren''t DRM free, they just use an old-fashioned form of DRM: they put your name on the file-- look in the bottom corner of the page.
On Jun 8, 2005, at 2:04 PM, Mike Payson wrote:> > True, tech books have limited sales potential, but that''s why they''re > priced so high. If it wasn''t a profitable business, there wouldn''t be > so many companies competing for the marketplace. And remember, Dave''s > not just the author, but the publisher as well, so his margin per book > is substantially higher then if he were just the author. > > Don''t get me wrong-- I''m not saying that you shouldn''t buy it from > directly from Dave-- I bought the Beta PDF myself. But you shouldn''t > feel guilty if you choose to order from Amazon or whoever. All > evidence suggests that Dave -isn''t- a bad business man, so I expect > that this book will be quite profitable for him, regardless of where > you order it from. (To be fair, the poster that I replied to followed > up saying basically the same thing, but I hadn''t read it when I > replied.)The big secret is that Dave doesn''t actually get any money from the book. His share of the profits are sent directly to his family while the Rails core team has got him locked in a dungeon with nothing but a copy of emacs and a connection to the Rails book repository. We slip him BBQ and beer every now and then to keep his energy levels up. Sometimes we make incompatible changes to Rails just to keep him sharp. He''s done a fabulous job keeping up and deserves a pat on the back when (and if) we let him out. The dungeon master _______________________________________________ Rails mailing list Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
On Jun 8, 2005, at 2:06 AM, Mike Payson wrote:> What?!? You mean that If I order it direct from the author/publisher > for $35, he''ll make more then if I order it from a reseller for $23? > Shocking! > > Seriously, unless Dave is a REALLY bad business man (and I assume he > isn''t) he makes a reasonable profit when he wholesales the books to > resellers such as Amazon. Certainly (obviously) he will make more > money if you order it direct, but it''s not like he''ll lose money > otherwise. IWe don''t sell through Amazon at a loss, but the profit there is a lot, lot less. It was a long and difficult decision for us to decide to distribute our books through regular channels: we have to sell almost an order or magnitude more through retail channels to make it worthwhile. So, instead of competing on price, we try to do it on service. With the beta book, we give folks access a full two or three months before the book will be available on Amazon (they list it as July 1st, but they have it wrong--the book won''t come off the presses until the end of July.) We can also offer combo packs, where the PDF is heavily discounted when bought with a book. And today we announced the release of beta 2 of the book, available at no charge to owners of beta 1. We''re very happy for you to buy your books where ever you buy them--we publish books to pay the mortgage, but we also do it because we love the technologies and want people to read about and use them. And if there are ways to convince you that it''s valuable to buy direct from us, please let me know. Thanks for your support. Dave
On 6/8/05, Dave Thomas <dave-kbbdpT5sCmpWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > So, instead of competing on price, we try to do it on service. With the > beta book, we give folks access a full two or three months before the > book will be available on Amazon (they list it as July 1st, but they > have it wrong--the book won''t come off the presses until the end of > July.) We can also offer combo packs, where the PDF is heavily > discounted when bought with a book. And today we announced the release > of beta 2 of the book, available at no charge to owners of beta 1.Hadn''t seen that announcement, are the emails still going out? -- Bill Guindon (aka aGorilla)
> > And today we announced > the release > > of beta 2 of the book, available at no charge to owners of beta 1. > > Hadn''t seen that announcement, are the emails still going out?I think it was "announced" on Dave''s blog. In any case, you can start your upgrade process from there: blogs.pragprog.com/cgi-bin/pragdave.cgi
On 6/8/05, Dean Matsueda <dmatsueda-1n2u0cAa2q8@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > > And today we announced > > the release > > > of beta 2 of the book, available at no charge to owners of beta 1. > > > > Hadn''t seen that announcement, are the emails still going out? > > I think it was "announced" on Dave''s blog. In any case, you can start > your upgrade process from there: > > blogs.pragprog.com/cgi-bin/pragdave.cgi >thx much :) -- Bill Guindon (aka aGorilla)
Awesome. Thanks Dave... On 6/8/05, Dave Thomas <dave-kbbdpT5sCmpWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > On Jun 8, 2005, at 2:06 AM, Mike Payson wrote: > > > What?!? You mean that If I order it direct from the author/publisher > > for $35, he''ll make more then if I order it from a reseller for $23? > > Shocking! > > > > Seriously, unless Dave is a REALLY bad business man (and I assume he > > isn''t) he makes a reasonable profit when he wholesales the books to > > resellers such as Amazon. Certainly (obviously) he will make more > > money if you order it direct, but it''s not like he''ll lose money > > otherwise. I > > We don''t sell through Amazon at a loss, but the profit there is a lot, > lot less. It was a long and difficult decision for us to decide to > distribute our books through regular channels: we have to sell almost > an order or magnitude more through retail channels to make it > worthwhile. > > So, instead of competing on price, we try to do it on service. With the > beta book, we give folks access a full two or three months before the > book will be available on Amazon (they list it as July 1st, but they > have it wrong--the book won''t come off the presses until the end of > July.) We can also offer combo packs, where the PDF is heavily > discounted when bought with a book. And today we announced the release > of beta 2 of the book, available at no charge to owners of beta 1. > > We''re very happy for you to buy your books where ever you buy them--we > publish books to pay the mortgage, but we also do it because we love > the technologies and want people to read about and use them. And if > there are ways to convince you that it''s valuable to buy direct from > us, please let me know. > > Thanks for your support. > > > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >-- Chris Boone http://hypsometry.com/ : website edification http://uvlist.org/ : free classifieds for the Upper Valley
Hi Dave,> And today we announced the release > of beta 2 of the book, available at no charge to owners of beta 1.I would love to see a kind of changelog. I''ve read the first beta and I do now want to re-read half the book in order to get the updated stuff :-) Is it possible to list the chapter/pages that changed? Greets, Jonathan -- Jonathan Weiss jw-eM0Q5iXcOashFhg+JK9F0w@public.gmane.org http://blog.innerewut.de
On 6/8/05, Dave Thomas <dave-kbbdpT5sCmpWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> And today we announced the release > of beta 2 of the book, available at no charge to owners of beta 1.I just ordered the beta book this morning. How can I get the beta 2, or do I already have it? How can I tell? Thanks, -- Greg Donald Zend Certified Engineer http://destiney.com/
On 6/8/05, Greg Donald <destiney-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I just ordered the beta book this morning. How can I get the beta 2, > or do I already have it? How can I tell?Nevermind. I''m good to go already it said. -- Greg Donald Zend Certified Engineer http://destiney.com/
In article <78e801272368aed7a8672b5df330cbaa-HDQKq3lYuGDk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>, scott- HDQKq3lYuGDk1uMJSBkQmQ-XMD5yJDbdMReXY1tMh2IBg@public.gmane.org says...> the Rails core team has got him locked in a dungeon with nothing but a > copy of emacs and a connection to the Rails book repository.This is cruel and inhumane treatment. I''m sending a vi baked into a cake. (Actually I''m an emacs-head.. just felt like starting a morning flame war.) -- Jay Levitt | Wellesley, MA | I feel calm. I feel ready. I can only Faster: jay at jay dot fm | conclude that''s because I don''t have a http://www.jay.fm | full grasp of the situation. - Mark Adler
Dave Thomas wrote:> With the > beta book, we give folks access a full two or three months before the > book will be available on Amazon (they list it as July 1st, but they > have it wrong--the book won''t come off the presses until the end of > July.)Dave, your site still says "This title will be released on or about: July 4, 2005." Thanks for the beta 2, and for the bonus - I bought the PDF to complement my paper copy. Justin
On Jun 9, 2005, at 12:57 PM, Justin Forder wrote:> Dave Thomas wrote: > >> With the beta book, we give folks access a full two or three months >> before the book will be available on Amazon (they list it as July >> 1st, but they have it wrong--the book won''t come off the presses >> until the end of July.) > > Dave, your site still says "This title will be released on or about: > July 4, 2005." >Which is true... :) Our marketing person, W J Clinton, said to tell you "it depends what you mean by ''released''" We''re still aiming for that day for the final version of the PDF to come out, and the book will move out of beta. The version as it stands then will be V1.0, and it''ll be the basis for the paper book. Cheers Dave
> Greg Donald wrote: > It''s possible that the problem with Ernad''s order is simply a paranoid > shopping cart. Many of the cart systems get a deluge of credit card > fraud from the eastern European countries, and the easiest solution is > to just shut them off based on the country codes. It''s not a great > situation, but such is life in the world of e-commerce. > > That''s just a guess, but it''s an educated one. >I asked my friend to use his credit card and it worked. It seems the problem "is bank dependent" not "country dependent". Now, I am also the proud betabook owner. Regards, Ernad
Dave Thomas wrote:> > On Jun 9, 2005, at 12:57 PM, Justin Forder wrote: > >> Dave, your site still says "This title will be released on or about: >> July 4, 2005." >> > > Which is true... :) > > Our marketing person, W J Clinton, said to tell you "it depends what you > mean by ''released''" We''re still aiming for that day for the final > version of the PDF to come out, and the book will move out of beta. The > version as it stands then will be V1.0, and it''ll be the basis for the > paper book. >Thanks! What''s the cutoff date for errata, to make it into v1.0? And does this imply that Rails will be feature-frozen for 1.0 at the same time? cheers, Justin
On 6/10/05, Justin Forder <justin-zSfPWr5aQuznITO/+xaoB7VCufUGDwFn@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Dave Thomas wrote: > > > > On Jun 9, 2005, at 12:57 PM, Justin Forder wrote: > > > >> Dave, your site still says "This title will be released on or about: > >> July 4, 2005." > >> > > > > Which is true... :) > > > > Our marketing person, W J Clinton, said to tell you "it depends what you > > mean by ''released''" We''re still aiming for that day for the final > > version of the PDF to come out, and the book will move out of beta. The > > version as it stands then will be V1.0, and it''ll be the basis for the > > paper book. > > > > Thanks! What''s the cutoff date for errata, to make it into v1.0? > And does this imply that Rails will be feature-frozen for 1.0 at the > same time?We''re deprecation frozen at present. i.e. anything that works in the published book will work in 1.0-1.x. A feature freeze will come next, once the patch queue has been trimmed (http://dev.rubyonrails.org/report/3). Then all work will be on the 1.0 blockers (http://dev.rubyonrails.org/report/9). So, if you''ve got bugs you want fixed, or missing features. you really should report them ASAP http://dev.rubyonrails.org/newticket> cheers, > > Justin > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >-- Cheers Koz
On Jun 9, 2005, at 3:36 PM, Justin Forder wrote:> Dave Thomas wrote: >> On Jun 9, 2005, at 12:57 PM, Justin Forder wrote: >>> Dave, your site still says "This title will be released on or about: >>> July 4, 2005." >>> >> Which is true... :) >> Our marketing person, W J Clinton, said to tell you "it depends what >> you mean by ''released''" We''re still aiming for that day for the >> final version of the PDF to come out, and the book will move out of >> beta. The version as it stands then will be V1.0, and it''ll be the >> basis for the paper book. > > Thanks! What''s the cutoff date for errata, to make it into v1.0? > And does this imply that Rails will be feature-frozen for 1.0 at the > same time? >A week or so: we have to freeze the content to do the final typesetting Rails has its own release schedule. However, I''m very, very much hoping that Rails will be feature frozen before the book has to go to print.