Hello, New to ruby/rails, spending the holiday messing around with it -- fun so far, but there''s one things I''ve hit that''s had me wondering... I have a many->many relationship, between members & groups -- I define my join table and see the rows being automatically created just fine when manipulating the model objects. The trouble is, each of these tables has a column named ''ctime'', which is set automatically by the DB ( MySQL ) to the current timestamp when the row is created. And what''s happening, is that time a new row is inserted into the join table, the ''ctime'' from the group or user is copied into the insert statement. It seems like if there''s any shared column names between the join table and the primary table, the join table will end up with a copy of the primaries values. Is there a way to turn this behavior off? Without having to go and provide a full replacement for the update & insert SQL? Thanks, any pointers much appreciated. Gary