Dear all, I ran the following model without any problem previously to the update of lme4: fm2<-lmer(data=NGud,family=poisson, seed~hab*seedtray +(1|site)+(1|site:hab)) I have 25 sites, 2 habitats ("hab") per site, 8 seedtrays per habitat (4 as control, and 4 as treatment), and I'm interested in comparing the number of seed in seedtrays as a function of the treatment and its interaction with habitat. My problem is that I have just updated lme4 with the version posted in the last days. Running the same model implies that R crashes rather than printing an error message. I read the post of Douglas Bates in the "what news" section but I don't know what is the new appropriate formulation for this model. Any help would be very appreciated. Many thanks by advance. PS: I tested fm2<-lmer(data=NGud,family=poisson, seed~hab*seedtray +(1|site)+(1|site/hab)) which also made R crashing. And, fm2<-lmer(data=NGud,family=poisson, seed~hab*seedtray +(1|site/hab)) and for this, I obtained : CHOLMOD warning: matrix not positive definite Error in devLaplace(PQLpars) : Cholmod error `matrix not positive definite' at file:../Supernodal/t_cholmod_super_numeric.c, line 614 J?r?me Lema?tre ?tudiant au doctorat Chaire de recherche industrielle CRSNG - Universit? Laval en sylviculture et faune & D?partement de biologie, Facult? des sciences et de g?nie Pavillon Alexandre-Vachon Universit? Laval Qu?bec, QC G1K 7P4 t?l : (418) 656-2131 poste 2917 Local : VCH-2044 Courriel: jerome.lemaitre.1 at ulaval.ca