Hi, I guess by now you relaize that we have been trying to promote our NBGLMM in order to show people some of the capabiuliteis of our randome effects software ADMB-RE. If you want I can help you to analyze your data with the package we talk about on the R list. All I ask is that if it works for you you write a brief note to the list telling how it helped you. Cheers, dave Dave Fournier Otter Research Ltd PO Box 2040, sidney B.C. Canada V8L 3S3 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.