I am relatively new to NLME, so the solution to the problem I describe here may be obvious. But I've spent several days trying to get the right syntax to formulate random effects for this model appropriately. The full model is: nlme(a ~ a.mitscherlich(a.qe, a.max, lcp, light), data=light, fixed = a.max + a.qe + lcp ~ trt, random = a.max + a.qe + lcp ~ 1 | bench/line, start = list(fixed=c(17.4305, 0.182444, 0.00928341, -0.00057221, 44.8384, 8.67678)), method="ML", verbose=T, control = nlmeControl(maxIter=250, msMaxIter=200, pnlsMaxIter=20, gradHess=TRUE, returnObject=TRUE, niterEM=100)) What I'd like to do is to compare reduced models with something like random = list(a.max ~ 1 | bench, a.qe + lcp ~ 1 | bench/line) i.e., to drop the nested term on each of the coefficients one by one so that I can do and anova() to compare the models. random = a.max + a.qe +lcp ~ 1 | bench works fine, but I can't figure out how to drop nested terms from only some of the coefficients. Any help (including pointers to appropriate pages in Pinheiro and Bates) will be much appreciated. Thanks. Kent -- Kent E. Holsinger kent at darwin.eeb.uconn.edu http://darwin.eeb.uconn.edu -- Department of Ecology & Evolutionary Biology -- University of Connecticut, U-3043 -- Storrs, CT 06269-3043