A few days ago, I sent a question to the r-help list enquiring about the *** LEGALITY *** of porting a function from Splus into R. As a particular example, I referred to error.bar. Several people posted code for various versions of error.bar which they had written, but that was NOT WHAT I WAS ASKING FOR/ABOUT!!! [Can't anybody ***read*** these days?] I asked: IS IT LEGAL/ETHICAL to take a copy of an Splus function (written in raw S), ***such as*** error.bar, and make it into an R function? Is it OK to do this for one's own personal use? What about making such a function available to other R users (who may not have Splus licenses)? Would the big guns from the R community please comment on this? cheers, Rolf Turner -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
>>>>> "rolf" == Rolf Turner <rolf at math.unb.ca> writes:rolf> [Can't anybody ***read*** these days?] rolf> I asked: IS IT LEGAL/ETHICAL to take a copy of an Splus function rolf> (written in raw S), ***such as*** error.bar, and make it into an R rolf> function? Is it OK to do this for one's own personal use? What rolf> about making such a function available to other R users (who may not rolf> have Splus licenses)? rolf> Would the big guns from the R community please comment on this? I'm not a big gun, but the answer is NO. Don't go there, don't do it, write "clean room" reversed engineered versions (i.e. describe the activity to a coder who hasn't seen the code) when possible. best, -tony -- A.J. Rossini Rsrch. Asst. Prof. of Biostatistics U. of Washington Biostatistics rossini at u.washington.edu FHCRC/SCHARP/HIV Vaccine Trials Net rossini at scharp.org -------------- http://software.biostat.washington.edu/ ---------------- FHCRC: M: 206-667-7025 (fax=4812)|Voicemail is pretty sketchy/use Email UW: Th: 206-543-1044 (fax=3286)|Change last 4 digits of phone to FAX (my tuesday/wednesday/friday locations are completely unpredictable.) -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Rolf Turner wrote:> A few days ago, I sent a question to the r-help list enquiring > about the > > *** LEGALITY *** > > of porting a function from Splus into R. As a particular example, > I referred to error.bar. > > Several people posted code for various versions of error.bar which > they had written, but that was NOT WHAT I WAS ASKING FOR/ABOUT!!! > > [Can't anybody ***read*** these days?] > > I asked: IS IT LEGAL/ETHICAL to take a copy of an Splus function > (written in raw S), ***such as*** error.bar, and make it into an R > function? Is it OK to do this for one's own personal use? What > about making such a function available to other R users (who may not > have Splus licenses)? > > Would the big guns from the R community please comment on this?Isn't this a question about your S-PLUS license and to be addressed to your intellectual property rights dept (and many Universities now have one) and/or the ethics committee? It is also country-specific (and that can make a vast difference). To find out about legality, ask a lawyer. However, even a lawyer needs to know some of the details. Here are two extracts from the S+2000 License (for the US, I believe, since they are clipped from a PDF manual) which indicate the scope of the claims which such a license makes: Both the Software and the documentation are protected under applicable copyright laws, international treaty provisions, and trade secret statutes of the various states. This Agreement grants you a personal, limited, nonexclusive, nontransferable license to use the Software and the documentation. You may not translate, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software, except and only to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted by applicable law notwithstanding this limitation. (BTW, these extracts are copyright too, used here under `fair use' provisions.) -- Brian D. Ripley, ripley at stats.ox.ac.uk Professor of Applied Statistics, http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/ University of Oxford, Tel: +44 1865 272861 (self) 1 South Parks Road, +44 1865 272860 (secr) Oxford OX1 3TG, UK Fax: +44 1865 272595 -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
Further question (may be stupid) Technically, anyone could take a mathemathical algorithm published anywhere or invented by himself and turn it into a working R function. How could lawyers representing S+2000 possibly determine that my function is reverse engineered, and not invented by me? FFT e.g. has been in the literature since its invention. Am I prohibited to write my own version of it, even if it happens to have the same argument list as that of S+ ? Or even almost all of R?? Just some thoughts --christian>Delivered-To: hoffmann at wsl.ch >Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:22:29 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) >From: Prof Brian D Ripley <ripley at stats.ox.ac.uk> >To: Rolf Turner <rolf at math.unb.ca> >cc: r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch >Subject: Re: [R] Legality of copying from Splus. >Sender: owner-r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch > >On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Rolf Turner wrote: > >> A few days ago, I sent a question to the r-help list enquiring >> about the >> >> *** LEGALITY *** >> >> of porting a function from Splus into R. As a particular example, >> I referred to error.bar. >> >> Several people posted code for various versions of error.bar which >> they had written, but that was NOT WHAT I WAS ASKING FOR/ABOUT!!! >> >> [Can't anybody ***read*** these days?] >> >> I asked: IS IT LEGAL/ETHICAL to take a copy of an Splus function >> (written in raw S), ***such as*** error.bar, and make it into an R >> function? Is it OK to do this for one's own personal use? What >> about making such a function available to other R users (who may not >> have Splus licenses)? >> >> Would the big guns from the R community please comment on this? > >Isn't this a question about your S-PLUS license and to be addressed to your >intellectual property rights dept (and many Universities now have one) >and/or the ethics committee? It is also country-specific (and that can >make a vast difference). To find out about legality, ask a lawyer. > >However, even a lawyer needs to know some of the details. Here are two >extracts from the S+2000 License (for the US, I believe, since they are >clipped from a PDF manual) which indicate the scope of the claims which >such a license makes: > > Both the Software and the documentation are protected under > applicable copyright laws, international treaty provisions, and trade > secret statutes of the various states. This Agreement grants you a > personal, limited, nonexclusive, nontransferable license to use the > Software and the documentation. > > You may not translate, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble > the Software, except and only to the extent that such activity is > expressly permitted by applicable law notwithstanding this limitation. > >(BTW, these extracts are copyright too, used here under `fair use' >provisions.) > >-- >Brian D. Ripley, ripley at stats.ox.ac.uk >Professor of Applied Statistics, http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/ >University of Oxford, Tel: +44 1865 272861 (self) >1 South Parks Road, +44 1865 272860 (secr) >Oxford OX1 3TG, UK Fax: +44 1865 272595 > > >-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.->r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html >Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" >(in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch >_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._> >Dr.sc.math.Christian W. Hoffmann Mathematics and Statistical Computing Landscape Dynamics and Spatial Development Swiss Federal Research Institute WSL Zuercherstrasse 111 CH-8903 Birmensdorf, Switzerland phone: ++41-1-739 22 77 fax: ++41-1-739 22 15 e-mail: christian.hoffmann at wsl.ch www: http://www.wsl.ch/staff/christian.hoffmann/ -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
Hi Rolf, I was replyinhg to this and just received Professor Ripley's reply posted on r-help. So I just echo his useful comments and suggestions, with one added suggestion: Ask Insightful -- after all, it is their copyrighted software. Best Regards, Bill> -----Original Message----- > From: Rolf Turner [mailto:rolf at math.unb.ca] > Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 9:27 AM > To: r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch > Subject: [R] Legality of copying from Splus. > > > > A few days ago, I sent a question to the r-help list enquiring > about the > > *** LEGALITY *** > > of porting a function from Splus into R. As a particular example, > I referred to error.bar. > > Several people posted code for various versions of error.bar which > they had written, but that was NOT WHAT I WAS ASKING FOR/ABOUT!!! > > [Can't anybody ***read*** these days?] > > I asked: IS IT LEGAL/ETHICAL to take a copy of an Splus function > (written in raw S), ***such as*** error.bar, and make it into an R > function? Is it OK to do this for one's own personal use? What > about making such a function available to other R users (who may not > have Splus licenses)? > > Would the big guns from the R community please comment on this? > > cheers, > > Rolf Turner > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > r-help mailing list -- Readhttp://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._. _._ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains information of Merck & Co., Inc. (Whitehouse Station, New Jersey, USA) that may be confidential, proprietary copyrighted and/or legally privileged, and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named in this message. If you are not the intended recipient, and have received this message in error, please immediately return this by e-mail and then delete it. ============================================================================= -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Rolf Turner wrote:> [Can't anybody ***read*** these days?]Evidently I (and others) misunderstood your request. I thought you were asking about the specific function error.bar(). Since your question is more general, I assume that you actually have an S-Plus license or that you have unlicensed access to S-Plus code. If that's the case, have you ***read*** the copyright? I should think that it's rather clear on this issue. While on the topic, I suggest that you read the Free Software Foundation GNU Public License, under which R and many (all?) of its contributed packages are released. It too is quite specific regarding such things as how R code propogates its open source model into deriviative software built onto R or R packages licensed under the GPL. BTW, does anyone else on the list know the license status of code posted to the list, e.g. the ebars() function that I posted in response to Rolf's inquiry? How about when that code is later incorporated into a package released under a specific license? For example, the ebars() function I posted is part of a toolset for analyses of ecological data that I plan to release later this year under the GPL. Did I relinquish my copyright by posting it here without specific reference to it's license for use? --Mike C. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michael A. Camann Voice: 707-826-3676 Associate Professor of Zoology Fax: 707-826-3201 Institute for Forest Canopy Research Email: mac24 at axe.humboldt.edu Department of Biology ifcr at axe.humboldt.edu Humboldt State University Arcata, CA 95521 URL:http://www.humboldt.edu/~mac24/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
As far as I understand the law of copyright in the UK, at least, any literary work (including computer code) is the copyright of the author, whether published or not, and whether labelled as such or not. This subject to some exceptions, of which its creation under a contract of employment is I believe the most important, but presumably any commitments entered into by virtue of using R would also modify the position. Julian Wells OU Business School The Open University Walton Hall Milton Keynes MK7 6AA United Kingdom +44 1908 654658 -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._