(Reply directly, as I''m not subscribed here.) As you may have seen, ARC recently approved my case to remove the ancient sbpro driver Solaris. I''m intent on doing that, because it really helps with our OSS integration effort, which I''m now leading. The problem is, will this impact qemu? I''m not sure of the answer. I *think* qemu emulates an older ESS1370 device, which is not supported (we *do* have a driver for the ESS 1371 though!) I notice that Virtual Box also has support for AC''97 hardware. Can qemu emulate AC''97 hardware? If there is someone in the community that would like to coordinate with me (not everyone please!) to ensure that qemu works with our OSS effort, and isn''t unduly impacted by the removal of the sbpro driver, please let me know. - Garrett
Garrett wrote: (added CC: to xen-discuss@opensolaris.org)> (Reply directly, as I''m not subscribed here.) > > As you may have seen, ARC recently approved my case to remove the > ancient sbpro driver Solaris. > > I''m intent on doing that, because it really helps with our OSS > integration effort, which I''m now leading. > > The problem is, will this impact qemu? I''m not sure of the answer.It seems so; "Creative Sound Blaster 16" is one of the emulated hardware devices offered by qemu. Note that xVM/xen is using more or less the same qemu bits for emulating hardware in hvm domains (xen''s qemu-dm process), so it seems xVM will be affected just like qemu is. See http://xenbits.xensource.com/xen-unstable.hg?file/f681c4de91fc/tools/ioemu/vl.c ~ line 6879, the struct soundhw soundhw[] array for a list of (xVM/xen) supported audio hardware devices.> I *think* qemu emulates an older ESS1370 device, which is not supportedYep.> (we *do* have a driver for the ESS 1371 though!) > I notice that Virtual > Box also has support for AC''97 hardware. Can qemu emulate AC''97 hardware?AC''97 isn''t the big problem when supporting audio in a system that has "AC''97" style audio. It''s the type of audio codec controller chip interfacing to the AC''97 codec that matters. Common AC''97 codec controller chips are (older) Intel ICH chipsets (and compatible chipsets from nVidia / AMD), VIA chipsets, older ATI chipsets, SoundBlaster audigy, ... Each one requires a different "AC''97" audio driver. AFAICT, VirtualBox 1.6 supports emulating some "SoundBlaster 16" hardware (not sure if that is the old ISA style card or the newer SoundBlaster 16 PCI; ); might be supported by sbpro(7D). And it supports "ICH AC97"; which should be supported by Solaris'' audio810(7D) driver.> If there is someone in the community that would like to coordinate with > me (not everyone please!) to ensure that qemu works with our OSS effort, > and isn''t unduly impacted by the removal of the sbpro driver, please let > me know.
Garrett D''Amore
2008-May-30 12:06 UTC
Re: [qemu-discuss] SoundBlaster 16 removal impending
A few notes: 1) It was my understanding that xen did not emulate sound hardware, and that sound was not supported in domU. Am I mistaken here? (Notably, if we want/need sound, we should try to update Xen to something more modern than SB16! An emulation based on either ESS 1371 or Intel ICH would be far far preferable.) 2) Yes, I understand the difference between AC''97 and ICH. I know that VirtualBox can emulate ICH sound. If qemu can be made to emulate the same, then it will probably ensure that qemu will have good sound support from many OS'' going forward. (Only a few really old operating systems fail to support ICH audio -- think Windows 95 and the earliest version of Windows 98. Those older systems could support either AudioPCI128 -- ESS1371 -- or ancient SB16/sbpro.) If qemu could lift the ICH support from VirtualBox, so much the better. :-) -- Garrett Juergen Keil wrote:> Garrett wrote: > > (added CC: to xen-discuss@opensolaris.org) > > >> (Reply directly, as I''m not subscribed here.) >> >> As you may have seen, ARC recently approved my case to remove the >> ancient sbpro driver Solaris. >> >> I''m intent on doing that, because it really helps with our OSS >> integration effort, which I''m now leading. >> >> The problem is, will this impact qemu? I''m not sure of the answer. >> > > It seems so; "Creative Sound Blaster 16" is one of the emulated > hardware devices offered by qemu. Note that xVM/xen is using more or > less the same qemu bits for emulating hardware in hvm domains (xen''s > qemu-dm process), so it seems xVM will be affected just like qemu is. > > See > http://xenbits.xensource.com/xen-unstable.hg?file/f681c4de91fc/tools/ioemu/vl.c > ~ line 6879, the struct soundhw soundhw[] array for a list of (xVM/xen) > supported audio hardware devices. > > > > >> I *think* qemu emulates an older ESS1370 device, which is not supported >> > Yep. > > >> (we *do* have a driver for the ESS 1371 though!) >> I notice that Virtual >> Box also has support for AC''97 hardware. Can qemu emulate AC''97 hardware? >> > > AC''97 isn''t the big problem when supporting audio in a system that has "AC''97" > style audio. It''s the type of audio codec controller chip interfacing to the > AC''97 codec that matters. Common AC''97 codec controller chips are > (older) Intel ICH chipsets (and compatible chipsets from nVidia / AMD), > VIA chipsets, older ATI chipsets, SoundBlaster audigy, ... > > Each one requires a different "AC''97" audio driver. > > > AFAICT, VirtualBox 1.6 supports emulating some "SoundBlaster 16" hardware > (not sure if that is the old ISA style card or the newer SoundBlaster 16 PCI; > ); might be supported by sbpro(7D). > And it supports "ICH AC97"; which should be supported by Solaris'' > audio810(7D) driver. > > > >> If there is someone in the community that would like to coordinate with >> me (not everyone please!) to ensure that qemu works with our OSS effort, >> and isn''t unduly impacted by the removal of the sbpro driver, please let >> me know. >> > >
> A few notes:...> 2) Yes, I understand the difference between AC''97 and > ICH. I know that > VirtualBox can emulate ICH sound. If qemu can be > made to emulate the > same, then it will probably ensure that qemu will > have good sound > support from many OS'' going forward. (Only a few > really old operating > systems fail to support ICH audio -- think Windows 95 > and the earliest > version of Windows 98. Those older systems could > support either > AudioPCI128 -- ESS1371 -- or ancient SB16/sbpro.) If > qemu could lift > the ICH support from VirtualBox, so much the better. > :-)Windows 95/98 don''t need to worry about it, being the guest operating system they can run with sbpro support surely, or does qemu rely on the sbpro driver to provide the backend? -- This message posted from opensolaris.org
Garrett D''Amore wrote:> A few notes: > > 1) It was my understanding that xen did not emulate sound hardware, and > that sound was not supported in domU. Am I mistaken here?In a pv domU there is no sound support. But in a hvm domU using SDL for graphics you can have emulated sound hardware. I tested it with a Windows 2000 hvm domU (and a SXCE hvm domU), using soundhw=''es1370'' in the domain''s config file.> (Notably, > if we want/need sound, we should try to update Xen to something more > modern than SB16! An emulation based on either ESS 1371 or Intel ICH > would be far far preferable.)Neither ESS 1371 or Intel ICH emulation is available at this time. Apparently the xen/qemu emulated SB16 card is for an ISA card. Not sure if it supports ISA PnP; but current SXCE bits apparently do not have a device node for the SB16 sound hardware, so sbpro doesn''t attach. And the PCI ESS 1370 hardware doesn''t have a SXCE audio driver - but using my audio1371 driver (which supports 1370, too) I was able to use audioplay from a Solaris hvm domU.> 2) Yes, I understand the difference between AC''97 and ICH. I know that > VirtualBox can emulate ICH sound. If qemu can be made to emulate the > same, then it will probably ensure that qemu will have good sound > support from many OS'' going forward. (Only a few really old operating > systems fail to support ICH audio -- think Windows 95 and the earliest > version of Windows 98. Those older systems could support either > AudioPCI128 -- ESS1371 -- or ancient SB16/sbpro.) If qemu could lift > the ICH support from VirtualBox, so much the better. :-) > > -- Garrett > > > Juergen Keil wrote: > > Garrett wrote: > > > > (added CC: to xen-discuss@opensolaris.org) > > > > > >> (Reply directly, as I''m not subscribed here.) > >> > >> As you may have seen, ARC recently approved my case to remove the > >> ancient sbpro driver Solaris. > >> > >> I''m intent on doing that, because it really helps with our OSS > >> integration effort, which I''m now leading. > >> > >> The problem is, will this impact qemu? I''m not sure of the answer. > >> > > > > It seems so; "Creative Sound Blaster 16" is one of the emulated > > hardware devices offered by qemu. Note that xVM/xen is using more or > > less the same qemu bits for emulating hardware in hvm domains (xen''s > > qemu-dm process), so it seems xVM will be affected just like qemu is. > > > > See > >http://xenbits.xensource.com/xen-unstable.hg?file/f681c4de91fc/tools/ioemu/vl.c> > ~ line 6879, the struct soundhw soundhw[] array for a list of (xVM/xen) > > supported audio hardware devices. > > > > > > > > > >> I *think* qemu emulates an older ESS1370 device, which is not supported > >> > > Yep. > > > > > >> (we *do* have a driver for the ESS 1371 though!) > >> I notice that Virtual > >> Box also has support for AC''97 hardware. Can qemu emulate AC''97 hardware? > >> > > > > AC''97 isn''t the big problem when supporting audio in a system that has"AC''97"> > style audio. It''s the type of audio codec controller chip interfacing tothe> > AC''97 codec that matters. Common AC''97 codec controller chips are > > (older) Intel ICH chipsets (and compatible chipsets from nVidia / AMD), > > VIA chipsets, older ATI chipsets, SoundBlaster audigy, ... > > > > Each one requires a different "AC''97" audio driver. > > > > > > AFAICT, VirtualBox 1.6 supports emulating some "SoundBlaster 16" hardware > > (not sure if that is the old ISA style card or the newer SoundBlaster 16PCI;> > ); might be supported by sbpro(7D). > > And it supports "ICH AC97"; which should be supported by Solaris'' > > audio810(7D) driver. > > > > > > > >> If there is someone in the community that would like to coordinate with > >> me (not everyone please!) to ensure that qemu works with our OSS effort, > >> and isn''t unduly impacted by the removal of the sbpro driver, please let > >> me know. > >> > > > > >
Garrett D''Amore
2008-Jun-02 16:32 UTC
Re: [qemu-discuss] SoundBlaster 16 removal impending
Juergen Keil wrote:> Garrett D''Amore wrote: > > >> A few notes: >> >> 1) It was my understanding that xen did not emulate sound hardware, and >> that sound was not supported in domU. Am I mistaken here? >> > > In a pv domU there is no sound support. > > But in a hvm domU using SDL for graphics you can have emulated sound > hardware. I tested it with a Windows 2000 hvm domU (and a SXCE > hvm domU), using soundhw=''es1370'' in the domain''s config file. >Ah, OK. Didn''t realize the differences here between pv and hvm. Thanks for clearing that up.> > >> (Notably, >> if we want/need sound, we should try to update Xen to something more >> modern than SB16! An emulation based on either ESS 1371 or Intel ICH >> would be far far preferable.) >> > > Neither ESS 1371 or Intel ICH emulation is available at this time. > > Apparently the xen/qemu emulated SB16 card is for an ISA card. > Not sure if it supports ISA PnP; but current SXCE bits apparently > do not have a device node for the SB16 sound hardware, so sbpro doesn''t > attach. >Ah, so the *removal* actually doesn''t represent a loss of functionality for Xen. So at least on that front, we''re good to go.> > And the PCI ESS 1370 hardware doesn''t have a SXCE audio driver - but > using my audio1371 driver (which supports 1370, too) I was able to > use audioplay from a Solaris hvm domU. >Right. We may be fixing that, if there is a need. It certainly sounds like there might be. Do you have your own audio1371 driver? Is it a SADA driver? -- Garrett> > >> 2) Yes, I understand the difference between AC''97 and ICH. I know that >> VirtualBox can emulate ICH sound. If qemu can be made to emulate the >> same, then it will probably ensure that qemu will have good sound >> support from many OS'' going forward. (Only a few really old operating >> systems fail to support ICH audio -- think Windows 95 and the earliest >> version of Windows 98. Those older systems could support either >> AudioPCI128 -- ESS1371 -- or ancient SB16/sbpro.) If qemu could lift >> the ICH support from VirtualBox, so much the better. :-) >> >> -- Garrett >> >> >> Juergen Keil wrote: >> >>> Garrett wrote: >>> >>> (added CC: to xen-discuss@opensolaris.org) >>> >>> >>> >>>> (Reply directly, as I''m not subscribed here.) >>>> >>>> As you may have seen, ARC recently approved my case to remove the >>>> ancient sbpro driver Solaris. >>>> >>>> I''m intent on doing that, because it really helps with our OSS >>>> integration effort, which I''m now leading. >>>> >>>> The problem is, will this impact qemu? I''m not sure of the answer. >>>> >>>> >>> It seems so; "Creative Sound Blaster 16" is one of the emulated >>> hardware devices offered by qemu. Note that xVM/xen is using more or >>> less the same qemu bits for emulating hardware in hvm domains (xen''s >>> qemu-dm process), so it seems xVM will be affected just like qemu is. >>> >>> See >>> >>> > http://xenbits.xensource.com/xen-unstable.hg?file/f681c4de91fc/tools/ioemu/vl.c > >>> ~ line 6879, the struct soundhw soundhw[] array for a list of (xVM/xen) >>> supported audio hardware devices. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> I *think* qemu emulates an older ESS1370 device, which is not supported >>>> >>>> >>> Yep. >>> >>> >>> >>>> (we *do* have a driver for the ESS 1371 though!) >>>> I notice that Virtual >>>> Box also has support for AC''97 hardware. Can qemu emulate AC''97 hardware? >>>> >>>> >>> AC''97 isn''t the big problem when supporting audio in a system that has >>> > "AC''97" > >>> style audio. It''s the type of audio codec controller chip interfacing to >>> > the > >>> AC''97 codec that matters. Common AC''97 codec controller chips are >>> (older) Intel ICH chipsets (and compatible chipsets from nVidia / AMD), >>> VIA chipsets, older ATI chipsets, SoundBlaster audigy, ... >>> >>> Each one requires a different "AC''97" audio driver. >>> >>> >>> AFAICT, VirtualBox 1.6 supports emulating some "SoundBlaster 16" hardware >>> (not sure if that is the old ISA style card or the newer SoundBlaster 16 >>> > PCI; > >>> ); might be supported by sbpro(7D). >>> And it supports "ICH AC97"; which should be supported by Solaris'' >>> audio810(7D) driver. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> If there is someone in the community that would like to coordinate with >>>> me (not everyone please!) to ensure that qemu works with our OSS effort, >>>> and isn''t unduly impacted by the removal of the sbpro driver, please let >>>> me know. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> > >
Garrett D''Amore wrote:> Juergen Keil wrote: > > Garrett D''Amore wrote: > > > > > >> A few notes: > >> > >> 1) It was my understanding that xen did not emulate sound hardware, and > >> that sound was not supported in domU. Am I mistaken here? > >> > > > > In a pv domU there is no sound support. > > > > But in a hvm domU using SDL for graphics you can have emulated sound > > hardware. I tested it with a Windows 2000 hvm domU (and a SXCE > > hvm domU), using soundhw=''es1370'' in the domain''s config file. > > > > Ah, OK. Didn''t realize the differences here between pv and hvm. > Thanks for clearing that up.hvm is the one that emulates PC hardware / devices. A hvm domain doesn''t need a special OS modified for use with xen (so you can install a standard copy of Windows (or Solaris, Linux, ...) in a hvm domain. In a pv domain you have to use an OS that has been modified to run under control of the xen hypervisor (like Linux, Solaris, xxxBSD - but not Windows).> >> (Notably, > >> if we want/need sound, we should try to update Xen to something more > >> modern than SB16! An emulation based on either ESS 1371 or Intel ICH > >> would be far far preferable.) > >> > > > > Neither ESS 1371 or Intel ICH emulation is available at this time. > > > > Apparently the xen/qemu emulated SB16 card is for an ISA card. > > Not sure if it supports ISA PnP; but current SXCE bits apparently > > do not have a device node for the SB16 sound hardware, so sbpro doesn''t > > attach. > > > Ah, so the *removal* actually doesn''t represent a loss of functionality > for Xen. So at least on that front, we''re good to go.Yep. Well, maybe the old boot.bin / DCA based Solaris releases are able to find the ISA SB16 card, but last time I tried it, the old DCA based Solaris releases needed > 60 minutes from starting boot.bin until the Solaris kernel gets loaded. Some details can be found here: http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=36498&tstart=210 So I doubt anyone will run old Solaris releases (<= S10 x86 FCS) under xen.> > And the PCI ESS 1370 hardware doesn''t have a SXCE audio driver - but > > using my audio1371 driver (which supports 1370, too) I was able to > > use audioplay from a Solaris hvm domU. > > > > Right. We may be fixing that, if there is a need. It certainly sounds > like there might be. > > Do you have your own audio1371 driver?Yes, http://www.tools.de/opensource/solaris/audio/> Is it a SADA driver?It offers the standard SADA compatible interfaces (with the exception of mixer mode).
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