llvm dev - Mar 2016 - We really need more community involvement with GSoC

On 3/19/16 6:26 AM, Bruce Hoult via llvm-dev wrote:
> I work for one of those "top companies", but LLVM is only one of
the
> back-ends I'm working with so I have only pretty narrow knowledge of 
> it (but ok knowledge of compilers in general, I hope).
>
> I'm trying to post easy to understand answers to those beginner 
> questions when I have time (there was one yesterday, about constant 
> evaluating things like sqrt() in the front end).
>
> One concern I have is that although these basic questions often have 
> no answers on the mailing list, any number of people might well have 
> replied to them privately, in an effort to both be helpful to the 
> questioner, and also to "maintain the signal to noise ratio" of
the
> mailing list.
When I reply to a question, I reply to the list.  That ensures that a) 
everyone knows if a question has been answered and b) it allows others 
with a similar question to see the answer.

On a side note, I think our FAQ may need some updating; we've gotten 
similar questions over the years which I should have added to a FAQ but 
(to date) have not.

Regards,

John Criswell
>
> Of course I don't know if this is really happening or not, but if it 
> is then the wasted duplication of effort is probably worse than a few 
> extra messages on the list. Which is why I copy the list as well.
>
> The "office hours" idea would definitely help with all this, if 
> beginners can in fact be encouraged to use it.
>
> I'd probably use it myself, as I'm a novice to many aspects of
LLVM.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 3:47 PM, vivek pandya via llvm-dev 
> <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org>> wrote:
>
>     Note : I do not mean to compare or criticize any organization.
>     This is based on my experience.
>
>     Dear Community,
>
>     I have subscribed llvm-dev list for last 6 months and I follow
>     most of the thread when it makes sense to me. I have observed that
>     some times some mails do not get any kind of response. Mostly
>     novice students and some one trying to use LLVM in the research
>     have many questions.
>     I respect all community members and I understand that working for
>     top companies or colleges keep them very busy. So when I go on IRC
>     same things happens ( I keep my self up late night to sync with
>     timezone so I get many people to ask on IRC).
>      Personally if I stretch my self and read some older mail chains,
>     I am able to get answers to my questions 80% of time, but some
>     time I just get stuck and some times to understand output and "why
>     it has happen so" a novice may require help from you people.
>
>     I have just one suggestion that is not particular to GSoC but it
>     applies in general. Actually Drupal.org uses this idea. See this
>     https://www.drupal.org/core-office-hours
>     Every Monday and Wednesday they keep a session on IRC  (just
>     textual chat) dedicated to novice student may be an hour long or
>     so. To keep main channel undisturbed we may have a separate
>     channel. (or slack.com <http://slack.com> )  The time chosen for
>     both days are very different so that they can cover may time
>     zones. 2 or 3 experienced community members attends this session
>     and answers to the each kind of questions from participant. This
>     will help students and researchers very much. Specially if they
>     are not able to progress by their own.
>     I have been benefited from this on Drupal. LLVM is more complex
>     code base than Drupal. And I believe that your 60 minutes may save
>     their days.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Vivek
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     LLVM Developers mailing list
>     llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>
>     http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing list
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev

-- 
John Criswell
Assistant Professor
Department of Computer Science, University of Rochester
http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/criswell

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On 03/20/2016 12:20 PM, John Criswell via llvm-dev
wrote:
> On 3/19/16 6:26 AM, Bruce Hoult via llvm-dev wrote:
>> I work for one of those "top companies", but LLVM is only one
of the
>> back-ends I'm working with so I have only pretty narrow knowledge
of
>> it (but ok knowledge of compilers in general, I hope).
>>
>> I'm trying to post easy to understand answers to those beginner 
>> questions when I have time (there was one yesterday, about constant 
>> evaluating things like sqrt() in the front end).
>>
>> One concern I have is that although these basic questions often have 
>> no answers on the mailing list, any number of people might well have 
>> replied to them privately, in an effort to both be helpful to the 
>> questioner, and also to "maintain the signal to noise ratio"
of the
>> mailing list.
>
> When I reply to a question, I reply to the list.  That ensures that a) 
> everyone knows if a question has been answered and b) it allows others 
> with a similar question to see the answer.
Same.
>
> On a side note, I think our FAQ may need some updating; we've gotten 
> similar questions over the years which I should have added to a FAQ 
> but (to date) have not.
Wait, we have a FAQ?  (Mostly joking, I know if it, just never seen 
anyone reference it.)

Should we try to encourage folks to update the FAQ and reply with a link 
rather than directly answering questions on llvm-dev?
>
> Regards,
>
> John Criswell
>
>>
>> Of course I don't know if this is really happening or not, but if
it
>> is then the wasted duplication of effort is probably worse than a few 
>> extra messages on the list. Which is why I copy the list as well.
>>
>> The "office hours" idea would definitely help with all this,
if
>> beginners can in fact be encouraged to use it.
>>
>> I'd probably use it myself, as I'm a novice to many aspects of
LLVM.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 3:47 PM, vivek pandya via llvm-dev 
>> <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>>
>>     Note : I do not mean to compare or criticize any organization.
>>     This is based on my experience.
>>
>>     Dear Community,
>>
>>     I have subscribed llvm-dev list for last 6 months and I follow
>>     most of the thread when it makes sense to me. I have observed
>>     that some times some mails do not get any kind of response.
>>     Mostly novice students and some one trying to use LLVM in the
>>     research have many questions.
>>     I respect all community members and I understand that working for
>>     top companies or colleges keep them very busy. So when I go on
>>     IRC same things happens ( I keep my self up late night to sync
>>     with timezone so I get many people to ask on IRC).
>>      Personally if I stretch my self and read some older mail chains,
>>     I am able to get answers to my questions 80% of time, but some
>>     time I just get stuck and some times to understand output and
>>     "why it has happen so" a novice may require help from you
people.
>>
>>     I have just one suggestion that is not particular to GSoC but it
>>     applies in general. Actually Drupal.org uses this idea. See this
>>     https://www.drupal.org/core-office-hours
>>     Every Monday and Wednesday they keep a session on IRC  (just
>>     textual chat) dedicated to novice student may be an hour long or
>>     so. To keep main channel undisturbed we may have a separate
>>     channel. (or slack.com <http://slack.com> )  The time chosen
for
>>     both days are very different so that they can cover may time
>>     zones. 2 or 3 experienced community members attends this session
>>     and answers to the each kind of questions from participant. This
>>     will help students and researchers very much. Specially if they
>>     are not able to progress by their own.
>>     I have been benefited from this on Drupal. LLVM is more complex
>>     code base than Drupal. And I believe that your 60 minutes may
>>     save their days.
>>
>>
>>     Sincerely,
>>     Vivek
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     LLVM Developers mailing list
>>     llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org>
>>     http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> LLVM Developers mailing list
>> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
>> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>
>
> -- 
> John Criswell
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Computer Science, University of Rochester
> http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/criswell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing list
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
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Hi,
Has there been any update on this office-hour idea?
I'm just starting to get my feet wet with LLVM and this seems like an
amazing potential resource for getting answers!
Regards,
Aditi Dixit
Would be a really helpful resource for beginners

On Wednesday 23 March 2016, Philip Reames via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>
>
> On 03/20/2016 12:20 PM, John Criswell via llvm-dev wrote:
>
> On 3/19/16 6:26 AM, Bruce Hoult via llvm-dev wrote:
>
> I work for one of those "top companies", but LLVM is only one of
the
> back-ends I'm working with so I have only pretty narrow knowledge of it
> (but ok knowledge of compilers in general, I hope).
>
> I'm trying to post easy to understand answers to those beginner
questions
> when I have time (there was one yesterday, about constant evaluating things
> like sqrt() in the front end).
>
> One concern I have is that although these basic questions often have no
> answers on the mailing list, any number of people might well have replied
> to them privately, in an effort to both be helpful to the questioner, and
> also to "maintain the signal to noise ratio" of the mailing list.
>
>
> When I reply to a question, I reply to the list.  That ensures that a)
> everyone knows if a question has been answered and b) it allows others with
> a similar question to see the answer.
>
> Same.
>
>
> On a side note, I think our FAQ may need some updating; we've gotten
> similar questions over the years which I should have added to a FAQ but (to
> date) have not.
>
> Wait, we have a FAQ?  (Mostly joking, I know if it, just never seen anyone
> reference it.)
>
> Should we try to encourage folks to update the FAQ and reply with a link
> rather than directly answering questions on llvm-dev?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> John Criswell
>
>
> Of course I don't know if this is really happening or not, but if it is
> then the wasted duplication of effort is probably worse than a few extra
> messages on the list. Which is why I copy the list as well.
>
> The "office hours" idea would definitely help with all this, if
beginners
> can in fact be encouraged to use it.
>
> I'd probably use it myself, as I'm a novice to many aspects of
LLVM.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 3:47 PM, vivek pandya via llvm-dev <
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org');>
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org');>> wrote:
>
>> Note : I do not mean to compare or criticize any organization. This is
>> based on my experience.
>>
>> Dear Community,
>>
>> I have subscribed llvm-dev list for last 6 months and I follow most of
>> the thread when it makes sense to me. I have observed that some times
some
>> mails do not get any kind of response. Mostly novice students and some
one
>> trying to use LLVM in the research have many questions.
>> I respect all community members and I understand that working for top
>> companies or colleges keep them very busy. So when I go on IRC same
things
>> happens ( I keep my self up late night to sync with timezone so I get
many
>> people to ask on IRC).
>>  Personally if I stretch my self and read some older mail chains, I am
>> able to get answers to my questions 80% of time, but some time I just
get
>> stuck and some times to understand output and "why it has happen
so" a
>> novice may require help from you people.
>>
>> I have just one suggestion that is not particular to GSoC but it
applies
>> in general. Actually Drupal.org uses this idea. See this
>> <https://www.drupal.org/core-office-hours>
>> https://www.drupal.org/core-office-hours
>> Every Monday and Wednesday they keep a session on IRC  (just textual
>> chat) dedicated to novice student may be an hour long or so. To keep
main
>> channel undisturbed we may have a separate channel. (or slack.com ) 
The
>> time chosen for both days are very different so that they can cover may
>> time zones. 2 or 3 experienced community members attends this session
and
>> answers to the each kind of questions from participant. This will help
>> students and researchers very much. Specially if they are not able to
>> progress by their own.
>> I have been benefited from this on Drupal. LLVM is more complex code
base
>> than Drupal. And I believe that your 60 minutes may save their days.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Vivek
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> LLVM Developers mailing list
>> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org');>
>> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing listllvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org');>http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>
>
>
> --
> John Criswell
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Computer Science, University of
Rochesterhttp://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/criswell
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing listllvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org');>http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>
>
>
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