> Indeed, dragonegg supports Fortran, but through a gfortran bridge. The > really interesting part in Fortran is in fact arrays! > > Anyway, it's just my opinion, I'm a simple user ;)Fortran has its own standard library and it's damn big. Also, the Fortran grammar is not the simplest (or, rather - straightforward one). So this certainly looks too big for GSoC. Though, it might be a good start for someone. I believe Bill (CCed) started something few years ago. So, maybe he can share his thoughts on this project. -- With best regards, Anton Korobeynikov Faculty of Mathematics and Mechanics, Saint Petersburg State University
I always liked the sound of 'flang' :) I'm curious, what benefits would we see from a "native" Fortran compiler for LLVM versus DragonEgg, assuming we'd still need the gfortran standard library anyway (in the short-medium term)? Or put another way, is there Fortran code out there we optimize poorly *because* of using DragonEgg? I haven't used DragonEgg much, so if this is obvious I apologize. On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Anton Korobeynikov < anton at korobeynikov.info> wrote:> > Indeed, dragonegg supports Fortran, but through a gfortran bridge. The > > really interesting part in Fortran is in fact arrays! > > > > Anyway, it's just my opinion, I'm a simple user ;) > Fortran has its own standard library and it's damn big. Also, the > Fortran grammar is not the simplest (or, rather - straightforward > one). So this certainly looks too big for GSoC. > > Though, it might be a good start for someone. > > I believe Bill (CCed) started something few years ago. So, maybe he > can share his thoughts on this project. > > -- > With best regards, Anton Korobeynikov > Faculty of Mathematics and Mechanics, Saint Petersburg State University > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev >-- Thanks, Justin Holewinski -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20130412/b91b5136/attachment.html>
Just a stab here and not basing it upon any recent exposure as a Mechanical Engineer and CS graduate with FORTRAN 90/03 but I have always perceived DragonEgg as transitional bridge solution and not an end solution for languages LLVM/Clang presently or in the future have yet to support directly within their infrastructure. Personally, the sooner I don't have to have the GCC infrastructure to run FreeBSD, Debian Linux or any other platform the better. It's not a dig at GCC, it's a dig at bloat. Having a robust FORTRAN library that is always a must in Numerical Analysis preludes often an equivalent robustness in equivalent C/C++ libraries, though never at an exact level of precision. Not to mention I would suspect the likes of ANSYS, MatLab, Mathematica, etc., would be rather pleased to port their applications across OS X, Windows, UNIX [Linux/FreeBSD] knowing LLVM/Clang/Flang isn't entangled with GPL licensing issues. - Sincerely, Marc J. Driftmeyer On 04/12/2013 07:53 AM, Justin Holewinski wrote:> I always liked the sound of 'flang' :) > > I'm curious, what benefits would we see from a "native" Fortran > compiler for LLVM versus DragonEgg, assuming we'd still need the > gfortran standard library anyway (in the short-medium term)? Or put > another way, is there Fortran code out there we optimize poorly > *because* of using DragonEgg? I haven't used DragonEgg much, so if > this is obvious I apologize. > > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Anton Korobeynikov > <anton at korobeynikov.info <mailto:anton at korobeynikov.info>> wrote: > > > Indeed, dragonegg supports Fortran, but through a gfortran > bridge. The > > really interesting part in Fortran is in fact arrays! > > > > Anyway, it's just my opinion, I'm a simple user ;) > Fortran has its own standard library and it's damn big. Also, the > Fortran grammar is not the simplest (or, rather - straightforward > one). So this certainly looks too big for GSoC. > > Though, it might be a good start for someone. > > I believe Bill (CCed) started something few years ago. So, maybe he > can share his thoughts on this project. > > -- > With best regards, Anton Korobeynikov > Faculty of Mathematics and Mechanics, Saint Petersburg State > University > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu <mailto:LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu> > http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev > > > > > -- > > Thanks, > > Justin Holewinski > > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20130412/d6e478dd/attachment.html>
----- Original Message -----> From: "Anton Korobeynikov" <anton at korobeynikov.info> > To: "Matthieu Brucher" <matthieu.brucher at gmail.com> > Cc: "Bill Wendling" <isanbard at gmail.com>, "LLVM Developers Mailing List" <llvmdev at cs.uiuc.edu> > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 9:04:22 AM > Subject: Re: [LLVMdev] GSoC project questions. > > > Indeed, dragonegg supports Fortran, but through a gfortran bridge. > > The > > really interesting part in Fortran is in fact arrays! > > > > Anyway, it's just my opinion, I'm a simple user ;) > Fortran has its own standard library and it's damn big. Also, the > Fortran grammar is not the simplest (or, rather - straightforward > one). So this certainly looks too big for GSoC. > > Though, it might be a good start for someone. > > I believe Bill (CCed) started something few years ago. So, maybe he > can share his thoughts on this project.FWIW, I also started working on a Fortran frontend (derived from Clang, but mostly just to piggyback on the Driver and CPP infrastructure). https://github.com/hfinkel/lfort If you're interested in contributing, that would be great. Nevertheless, I think that Anton is right. Creating a quality Fortran compiler is a community effort, and seems too big for a GSoC project. Perhaps we could identify some separately-useful component. -Hal> > -- > With best regards, Anton Korobeynikov > Faculty of Mathematics and Mechanics, Saint Petersburg State > University > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev >
Hi, I agree that creating a complete Fortran compiler is a huge effort. But what about approaching it from a test driven development perspective? We start with a few small Fortran programs as "test cases". The GSoC task then gives the task as getting test case 1 to work. We could also apply this of "lfort". Determine a test case that currently fails on lfort, and ask the GSoC task to pass the test. Kind Regards James On 13 April 2013 03:20, Hal Finkel <hfinkel at anl.gov> wrote:> ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Anton Korobeynikov" <anton at korobeynikov.info> > > To: "Matthieu Brucher" <matthieu.brucher at gmail.com> > > Cc: "Bill Wendling" <isanbard at gmail.com>, "LLVM Developers Mailing > List" <llvmdev at cs.uiuc.edu> > > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 9:04:22 AM > > Subject: Re: [LLVMdev] GSoC project questions. > > > > > Indeed, dragonegg supports Fortran, but through a gfortran bridge. > > > The > > > really interesting part in Fortran is in fact arrays! > > > > > > Anyway, it's just my opinion, I'm a simple user ;) > > Fortran has its own standard library and it's damn big. Also, the > > Fortran grammar is not the simplest (or, rather - straightforward > > one). So this certainly looks too big for GSoC. > > > > Though, it might be a good start for someone. > > > > I believe Bill (CCed) started something few years ago. So, maybe he > > can share his thoughts on this project. > > FWIW, I also started working on a Fortran frontend (derived from Clang, > but mostly just to piggyback on the Driver and CPP infrastructure). > https://github.com/hfinkel/lfort > > If you're interested in contributing, that would be great. Nevertheless, I > think that Anton is right. Creating a quality Fortran compiler is a > community effort, and seems too big for a GSoC project. Perhaps we could > identify some separately-useful component. > > -Hal > > > > > -- > > With best regards, Anton Korobeynikov > > Faculty of Mathematics and Mechanics, Saint Petersburg State > > University > > _______________________________________________ > > LLVM Developers mailing list > > LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu > > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev > > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20130413/73b7c051/attachment.html>
On Apr 12, 2013, at 7:20 PM, Hal Finkel <hfinkel at anl.gov> wrote:> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Anton Korobeynikov" <anton at korobeynikov.info> >> To: "Matthieu Brucher" <matthieu.brucher at gmail.com> >> Cc: "Bill Wendling" <isanbard at gmail.com>, "LLVM Developers Mailing List" <llvmdev at cs.uiuc.edu> >> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 9:04:22 AM >> Subject: Re: [LLVMdev] GSoC project questions. >> >>> Indeed, dragonegg supports Fortran, but through a gfortran bridge. >>> The >>> really interesting part in Fortran is in fact arrays! >>> >>> Anyway, it's just my opinion, I'm a simple user ;) >> Fortran has its own standard library and it's damn big. Also, the >> Fortran grammar is not the simplest (or, rather - straightforward >> one). So this certainly looks too big for GSoC. >> >> Though, it might be a good start for someone. >> >> I believe Bill (CCed) started something few years ago. So, maybe he >> can share his thoughts on this project. > > FWIW, I also started working on a Fortran frontend (derived from Clang, but mostly just to piggyback on the Driver and CPP infrastructure). > https://github.com/hfinkel/lfort > > If you're interested in contributing, that would be great. Nevertheless, I think that Anton is right. Creating a quality Fortran compiler is a community effort, and seems too big for a GSoC project. Perhaps we could identify some separately-useful component. >For what it's worth, I concur. It is a massive undertaking to support a full language. The flang code is here: https://github.com/isanbard/flang I haven't had time to work on it recently. And there are many things that I'd like to fix in there. It might be good to look at lfort and flang and see what can be shared between the two. :) -bw
Justin Holewinski <justin.holewinski at gmail.com> writes:> I always liked the sound of 'flang' :)I had planned to name it "flange" (Fortran LANGuage Environment) since for Fortran you need way more than just a compiler. :) You need an entire set of complicated libraries and runtime. -David