Everyone, I have modified the yp cgi script on dir.xiph.org to reject non-ogg streams. As the site has grown in popularity, it hasn't scaled well, and maintaining the database was eating most of the resources on the server. We did some minor tuning a few months ago which helped, but the load has continuted to grow and was affecting other more essential services. Given Xiph.org's mission to promote free multimedia, I don't think it's appropriate for us to devote resources to the advertisement of patent-encumbered streams to the detriment of our other services. Thus the listing policy change. If you'd like to see it put back, we'll consider if the yp mechanism is rewritten to reduce the load it incurs. Another idea is to sell ads as a fundraiser, but I'm skeptical whether the current level of traffic would pay for a separate server. Let me know if there are any problems, -r
I decided recently to change my stream from Ogg to AAC+ because I have a limited upload bandwidth and I wish to provide the best sound quality at low bitrates. If Ogg was as good ias AAC+ then I would definately use it. I'm apposed to this decision and I think it is a very bad idea. It is only the xiph directory where my potential listeners come from. I will have to switch to using the Shoutcast server if this is a permanent decision, so the station can be visible on a popular directory. Regards, Ross. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph Giles" <giles@xiph.org> To: <icecast@xiph.org> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:06 AM Subject: [Icecast] dir.xiph.org only listing Ogg streams Everyone, I have modified the yp cgi script on dir.xiph.org to reject non-ogg streams. As the site has grown in popularity, it hasn't scaled well, and maintaining the database was eating most of the resources on the server. We did some minor tuning a few months ago which helped, but the load has continuted to grow and was affecting other more essential services. Given Xiph.org's mission to promote free multimedia, I don't think it's appropriate for us to devote resources to the advertisement of patent-encumbered streams to the detriment of our other services. Thus the listing policy change. If you'd like to see it put back, we'll consider if the yp mechanism is rewritten to reduce the load it incurs. Another idea is to sell ads as a fundraiser, but I'm skeptical whether the current level of traffic would pay for a separate server. Let me know if there are any problems, -r
Hi There, The nice thing of dir.xiph.org [http://dir.xiph.org/] was the fact that it supported more or less all formats, this way we were able to send out different formats, where the listener was able to choose his appriciated format from and listen to it, also the way it all got listed made it very easy for a listener to see all te streams from one station in the different formats. Besides all above, not supporting AAC+ might not be a wise dissision, as at the moment it's giving the best result at the lowest bitrates, although a part of the signal is fake audio, for streaming it's OK. regards, Dennis -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Giles <giles@xiph.org> To: icecast@xiph.org Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:06:25 -0700 Subject: [Icecast] dir.xiph.org only listing Ogg streams Everyone, I have modified the yp cgi script on dir.xiph.org to reject non-ogg streams. As the site has grown in popularity, it hasn't scaled well, and maintaining the database was eating most of the resources on the server. We did some minor tuning a few months ago which helped, but the load has continuted to grow and was affecting other more essential services. Given Xiph.org's mission to promote free multimedia, I don't think it's appropriate for us to devote resources to the advertisement of patent-encumbered streams to the detriment of our other services. Thus the listing policy change. If you'd like to see it put back, we'll consider if the yp mechanism is rewritten to reduce the load it incurs. Another idea is to sell ads as a fundraiser, but I'm skeptical whether the current level of traffic would pay for a separate server. Let me know if there are any problems, -r _______________________________________________ Icecast mailing list Icecast@xiph.org http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast [http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/icecast/attachments/20060619/ee71d5b1/attachment.html
On Mon, 19 Jun 2006, Dennis Heerema wrote:> The nice thing of dir.xiph.org [http://dir.xiph.org/] was the fact that it > supported more or less all formats, this way we were able to send out > different formats, where the listener was able to choose his appriciated > format from and listen to it, also the way it all got listed made it very > easy for a listener to see all te streams from one station in the different > formats.This is the main reason for me to keep it. Maybe it's an idea to move the dir.xiph.org to dir.icecast.org or something similar. I can imagine it could be a bit infringing for xiph.org to show a list of non-ogg since it is fighting for open standards. To me, that would not be the case when you put the list on dir.icecast.org for instance. Icecast makes it possible to stream MP3 and AAC+ so maybe it makes more sense to have the yp listings availble on an Icecast web location. Regards, Frank Keijzers
On 6/19/06, Ross Levis <ross@stationplaylist.com> wrote:> I decided recently to change my stream from Ogg to AAC+ because I have a > limited upload bandwidth and I wish to provide the best sound quality at > low bitrates. If Ogg was as good ias AAC+ then I would definately use > it.I'm sorry to hear, this, Ross. Tests have shown Vorbis to be very competitive to AAC+ at low bitrates, and I suspect client support is now actually more widespread for vorbis.> > I'm apposed to this decision and I think it is a very bad idea. It is > only the xiph directory where my potential listeners come from. I will > have to switch to using the Shoutcast server if this is a permanent > decision, so the station can be visible on a popular directory. >Well, that's your choice. We'd love to see you go back to using vorbis, but in all honesty, if you don't intend to use free formats, you're not really the sort of person we wrote icecast primarily for. mp3/etc support was only added so that people could have mp3 streams _in addition_ to their free streams - something we admitted was neccesary due to limited client support in the past. However, as Ralph said - if someone is willing to do the neccesary work to optimise the stream directory software, we'd consider re-allowing non-free listings. Mike
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hi, On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 11:06:25AM -0700, Ralph Giles wrote:> Everyone, > > I have modified the yp cgi script on dir.xiph.org to reject non-ogg > streams. As the site has grown in popularity, it hasn't scaled well, > and maintaining the database was eating most of the resources on the > server. We did some minor tuning a few months ago which helped, but > the load has continuted to grow and was affecting other more essential > services.one simple but immediate solution might be to make the directory exportable among mirrors, so it can propagate to more front servers. a simple xml or rss export of the entries and some simple instructions on how to setup mirrors might lighten the server while spreading even more the dir.xiph initiative (who wouldn't love to have a nice sidebox on the website listing streams to tune in?) well, probably this is a feature request for the next yp software.. thanks for all your efforts, ciao - -- jaromil, dyne.org rasta coder, http://afrolinux.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFElnEWe2QxhLU0C14RAjITAKDM7naUlh4kv2R2isHDlOE7FAl1FACfRKi7 JasqYhLubd6XLPXqJBjXj1I=D48L -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Actually this is what I had already done on my yp as I foresaw the need for distribution nodes and I believe they already have an XML sheet however it still can be abused despite this. Bottom line, if they don't feel that there is enough traffic to the portal to get advertising dollars then they are experiencing a problem in their yp transactions from individual servers. My guess is there is some real inefficiencies with their code/database structure if this is the case. Jay -----Original Message----- From: icecast-bounces@xiph.org [mailto:icecast-bounces@xiph.org] On Behalf Of jaromil Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 4:41 AM To: icecast@xiph.org Subject: Re: [Icecast] dir.xiph.org only listing Ogg streams -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hi, On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 11:06:25AM -0700, Ralph Giles wrote:> Everyone, > > I have modified the yp cgi script on dir.xiph.org to reject non-ogg > streams. As the site has grown in popularity, it hasn't scaled well, > and maintaining the database was eating most of the resources on the > server. We did some minor tuning a few months ago which helped, but > the load has continuted to grow and was affecting other more essential > services.one simple but immediate solution might be to make the directory exportable among mirrors, so it can propagate to more front servers. a simple xml or rss export of the entries and some simple instructions on how to setup mirrors might lighten the server while spreading even more the dir.xiph initiative (who wouldn't love to have a nice sidebox on the website listing streams to tune in?) well, probably this is a feature request for the next yp software.. thanks for all your efforts, ciao - -- jaromil, dyne.org rasta coder, http://afrolinux.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFElnEWe2QxhLU0C14RAjITAKDM7naUlh4kv2R2isHDlOE7FAl1FACfRKi7 JasqYhLubd6XLPXqJBjXj1I=D48L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Icecast mailing list Icecast@xiph.org http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast