> I think going higher than 100k is > fairly wasteful. > > jack.Well, that might have been true a year or two ago - but a lot of people have the ability to hear 128k streams these days (look at the rankings at www.shoutcast.com). And - at least with MP3 - there is a *big* difference in sound quality between 96k & 128k. I'm hoping that Ogg Vorbis will produce decent-sounding sub-128k streams, since many of the next-gen wireless networks will be running at 128k. -bg --- Bill Goldsmith www.kpig.com www.radioparadise.com --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
> > I think going higher than 100k is > > fairly wasteful. > > Well, that might have been true a year or two ago - but a lot of people have > the ability to hear 128k streams these days (look at the rankings at > www.shoutcast.com). And - at least with MP3 - there is a *big* difference in > sound quality between 96k & 128k. > > I'm hoping that Ogg Vorbis will produce decent-sounding sub-128k streams, > since many of the next-gen wireless networks will be running at 128k.I didn't say it was impossible, I just said wasteful. Reasonable quality can be obtained sub-128. There are many reasons to broadcast high bitrate streams, but that doesn't mean they aren't wasteful. Bandwidth, even though one day it will be close to free, is still pretty expensive, and the only reason people do broadcast at 128k is because not that many people listen at once, and so it's still affordable. Were you to suddenly get thousands upon thousands of listeners, you might back it down a notch or two :) With Vorbis, I think everyone will be happy with 96-100kbps. Try it now and see if you are :) jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Depending on what you are broadcasting, for 28.8 I would go 16kbps and be really safe... Lithium ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Griffiths" <john@capmon.com> To: <icecast@xiph.org> Cc: <icecast@xiph.org> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 3:12 PM Subject: [icecast] bitrate for slow modems> ok so 24kbps for 56k modems... > > can i go any lower and get the 28 k modems? (still a lot of them about) orwill 24 be good enough fo that?> > At 04:57 PM 4/4/2001 -0700, Jack Moffitt wrote: > >> > > >> > the bitrate on the mp3's is 128 (great for listening off the HD) > >> > > >> > whats a good bitrate to encode for streaming audio? > >> > >> I think this might be the problem 128kbps isn't going to work over amodem.> >> > >> I think 24kbps is probably the pratical limit for 56k modems. 56kmodems might> >> be able to get a 32kbps stream but only under optimal conditions. > > > >I believe he said the outgoing stream was two 128k ISDN lines, which > >from my ISDN memory I remember as actually having a 112k throughput (the > >other channel being used for signalling, etc). Since you can only push > >packets out one at a time with a single tcp connection (i think) 128 is > >definately not going to make it out, even if the one possible listener > >could receive data that fast. > > > >So a lower bitrate is most certainly necessary. 24kbps is a good one to > >choose if you're interested in modem listeners. A lot of people like > >56k but I don't think they realize that most people with 56k modems get > >more like 40k throughput or so. I think going higher than 100k is > >fairly wasteful. > > > >jack. > > > >--- >8 ---- > >List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > >icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > >To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to'icecast-request@xiph.org'> >containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject isneeded.> >Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. > > > > > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to'icecast-request@xiph.org'> containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. >--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
> > > > the bitrate on the mp3's is 128 (great for listening off the HD) > > > > whats a good bitrate to encode for streaming audio? > > I think this might be the problem 128kbps isn't going to work over a modem. > > I think 24kbps is probably the pratical limit for 56k modems. 56k modems might > be able to get a 32kbps stream but only under optimal conditions.I believe he said the outgoing stream was two 128k ISDN lines, which from my ISDN memory I remember as actually having a 112k throughput (the other channel being used for signalling, etc). Since you can only push packets out one at a time with a single tcp connection (i think) 128 is definately not going to make it out, even if the one possible listener could receive data that fast. So a lower bitrate is most certainly necessary. 24kbps is a good one to choose if you're interested in modem listeners. A lot of people like 56k but I don't think they realize that most people with 56k modems get more like 40k throughput or so. I think going higher than 100k is fairly wasteful. jack. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
ok so 24kbps for 56k modems... can i go any lower and get the 28 k modems? (still a lot of them about) or will 24 be good enough fo that? At 04:57 PM 4/4/2001 -0700, Jack Moffitt wrote:>> > >> > the bitrate on the mp3's is 128 (great for listening off the HD) >> > >> > whats a good bitrate to encode for streaming audio? >> >> I think this might be the problem 128kbps isn't going to work over a modem. >> >> I think 24kbps is probably the pratical limit for 56k modems. 56k modems might >> be able to get a 32kbps stream but only under optimal conditions. > >I believe he said the outgoing stream was two 128k ISDN lines, which >from my ISDN memory I remember as actually having a 112k throughput (the >other channel being used for signalling, etc). Since you can only push >packets out one at a time with a single tcp connection (i think) 128 is >definately not going to make it out, even if the one possible listener >could receive data that fast. > >So a lower bitrate is most certainly necessary. 24kbps is a good one to >choose if you're interested in modem listeners. A lot of people like >56k but I don't think they realize that most people with 56k modems get >more like 40k throughput or so. I think going higher than 100k is >fairly wasteful. > >jack. > >--- >8 ---- >List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ >icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ >To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' >containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. >Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. > >--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, John Griffiths wrote:> ok so 24kbps for 56k modems... > > can i go any lower and get the 28 k modems? (still a lot of them about) or will 24 be good enough fo that?As others have said, 16kbps should do the trick. Keep in mind though that the quality of the sound will also depend on the sampling rate. MP3 will handle some higher sampling rates higher than some of the lame defaults. For example, 16kbps 11khz mono sounds very reasonable. At 24kbps, either 22khz mono or 11khz stereo sound pretty good, though the latter is a bit iffy under lame. At least with 24kbps however, these aren't the lame defaults. Mono will give you 16khz and stereo gives you a lowly 8khz (yuck!). You can get lame to do higher sampling rates by using the resample argument rather than letting it decide where to resample to. You can also improve sound quality by fiddling with the lowpass filter (IMHO, it can be a bit conservative and can do with being raised a bit at times). As a final tip, if you're encoding in mono, try out the experimental voice mode, it might actually make things sound better (e.g. 24kbps 22khz mono with --voice sounds pretty good). Geoff. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
> www.shoutcast.com). And - at least with MP3 - there is a *big* > difference in sound quality between 96k & 128k.You might want to compare different encoders. From what I have read, lame and its derivatives are great for 128 and higher, and the fraunhofer is good for sub-128, and Xing is always the worst. YMMV of course. Mark --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.