Icecast dev - Jun 2012 - /* Check for midi header in logical stream */

2012/6/21 Andr?s Gonz?lez <acandido at hi-iberia.es>
> **
> On 20/06/12 15:01, Marc wrote:
>
> Hello List,
>
>
> Hello Marc,
>
>
>  as an long time macintosh user , musican/producer/programmer , i am very
> upset that another great technology (DSS ) vanished because of http
> streaming so i turned my interest towards icecast, whitch seems an
> fantastic and evolved media streaming server.
>
>  I am very interested in Midi, especialy the possibility to *sync Audio
> with Midi*.
> So my question , would it be possible to stream a Vocal track for example,
> via icecast and syncronise a reciever via Midi clock ?
>
>
> If I understood you well, Icecast will do the job in the server part; the
> complex part is the receiver. I would try GStreamer for that.
>
> HTH,
> Andres
>
hey Andres

Thanks for the reply , I was looking around on the interwebs and i found
nothing then else then "subscription" based services like
*ejamming.com* ,its
 expensive and difficult to handle , a musican friend did not get it to
work (Portsettings and mapping no UPnP ).

Imagine one lead vocal track could triggers several sound sources around
the world , you think the *latency* from midi would be a problem for drums
for example  ?

Thanks?

Marc
>
>
>  --
> Marc Manthey
> 50823 K?ln, germany
> Vogelsangerstr.97
> Phone: 0049-221-29891489
> Mobile : 0049-1577-3329231
> Website: http://let.de
> Email: marc at let.de
>
>
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Hi,

On 21/06/12 16:46, Marc wrote:
>
> 2012/6/21 Andr?s Gonz?lez <acandido at hi-iberia.es 
> <mailto:acandido at hi-iberia.es>>
>
>     On 20/06/12 15:01, Marc wrote:
>
>>     as an long time macintosh user , musican/producer/programmer , i
>>     am very upset that another great technology (DSS ) vanished
>>     because of http streaming so i turned my interest
>>     towards icecast, whitch seems an fantastic and evolved media
>>     streaming server.
>>
>>     I am very interested in Midi, especialy the possibility to *sync
>>     Audio with Midi*.
>>     So my question , would it be possible to stream a Vocal track for
>>     example, via icecast and syncronise a reciever via Midi clock ?
>
>     If I understood you well, Icecast will do the job in the server
>     part; the complex part is the receiver. I would try GStreamer for
>     that.
>
>
> Thanks for the reply , I was looking around on the interwebs and i 
> found nothing then else then "subscription" based services like 
> *ejamming.com <http://ejamming.com>* ,its  expensive and difficult to
> handle , a musican friend did not get it to work (Portsettings and 
> mapping no UPnP ).
>
> Imagine one lead vocal track could triggers several sound sources 
> around the world , you think the *latency* from midi would be a 
> problem for drums for example  ?
>
I have this underlying feeling, that we're not clear about how this is 
supposed to fit together.

a) http streaming can have very significant latency due to caching in 
the listener software (only little is added by icecast itself). Total it 
will be on the order of 1-30s easily.
b) two separate clients will never be exactly sync streaming wise (see a)
c) I'm not aware of any currently existing software that would mux 
vorbis and midi in an ogg container.
d) neither am I aware of software that can demux and use vorbis and midi.
(I'm not saying c/d does not exist, but I haven't heard of it)

So how would this work?
The singer would just sing to a metronome or prerecorded midi track and 
that would be muxed in a stream that would go through Icecast to several 
musicians?
The singer then would not have the chance to hear what anyone plays 'out 
there' as that would happen with an too huge delay and not synchronized.

How do all the instruments fit in then? Are they supposed to be 
'hearing' each other (in terms of some sort of global midi network?).
Or does everyone just jam out to the lead singer+metronome and 
afterwards everything is fitted together (thanks to the midi time code)?

I may be missing something obvious, but would like to avoid a long 
discussion and then we find out that each one of us was talking about 
something completely different.

Cheers

Thomas

PS: Excuse my MIDI illiteracy, it's been 10 years since I had my 
keyboard hooked up via MIDI to my PC with tracking software.

2012/6/23 R?cker Thomas <thomas.ruecker at tieto.com>
> Hi,
>
> On 21/06/12 16:46, Marc wrote:
> >
> > 2012/6/21 Andr?s Gonz?lez <acandido at hi-iberia.es
> > <mailto:acandido at hi-iberia.es>>
> >
> >     On 20/06/12 15:01, Marc wrote:
> >
> >>     as an long time macintosh user , musican/producer/programmer ,
i
> >>     am very upset that another great technology (DSS ) vanished
> >>     because of http streaming so i turned my interest
> >>     towards icecast, whitch seems an fantastic and evolved media
> >>     streaming server.
> >>
> >>     I am very interested in Midi, especialy the possibility to
*sync
> >>     Audio with Midi*.
> >>     So my question , would it be possible to stream a Vocal track
for
> >>     example, via icecast and syncronise a reciever via Midi clock
?
> >
> >     If I understood you well, Icecast will do the job in the server
> >     part; the complex part is the receiver. I would try GStreamer for
> >     that.
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the reply , I was looking around on the interwebs and i
> > found nothing then else then "subscription" based services
like
> > *ejamming.com <http://ejamming.com>* ,its  expensive and
difficult to
> > handle , a musican friend did not get it to work (Portsettings and
> > mapping no UPnP ).
> >
> > Imagine one lead vocal track could triggers several sound sources
> > around the world , you think the *latency* from midi would be a
> > problem for drums for example  ?
> >
>
>
> The singer would just sing to a metronome or prerecorded midi track and
> that would be muxed in a stream that would go through Icecast to
> several musicians?

Hi thomas

I am not talking about a live vocal track, i just think of a finished
compressed,
vocal lead track sung to a clock, yes


> The singer then would not have the chance to hear what anyone plays
'out
> there' as that would happen with an too huge delay and not
synchronized.
>
The singer dont need to hear it anyway, i am talking about a remix for
example.
>
> How do all the instruments fit in then? Are they supposed to be
> 'hearing' each other (in terms of some sort of global midi
network?).
>
Midi does not have the latency from an audio track, because its very
leightweight protocol
and information,in this specitic case i  just need the midi clock.

> Or does everyone just jam out to the lead singer+metronome and
> afterwards everything is fitted together (thanks to the midi time code)?
>
I am not sure if its working live , but like i said, with a prerecorded
vocal track
it should be possible ?

Thanks Marc

-- 
Marc Manthey
50823 K?ln, germany
Vogelsangerstr.97
Phone: 0049-221-29891489
Mobile : 0049-1577-3329231
Website: http://let.de
Email: marc at let.de
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On Sat, 23 Jun 2012, R?cker Thomas wrote:
> c) I'm not aware of any currently existing software that would mux
> vorbis and midi in an ogg container.
> d) neither am I aware of software that can demux and use vorbis and midi.
> (I'm not saying c/d does not exist, but I haven't heard of it)
There is definitely a spec for doing this: http://wiki.xiph.org/OggMIDI

Granted, this spec is 11 years old, so may not reflect any changes in 
thinking re ogg mappings, etc that have occured since then, but it looks 
pretty thought out.

I do also recall some software being written a long time back, like 2000 
or 2001, for doing this sort of thing.  I think it was written for a 
specific project (maybe control of lighting via MIDI?).  I think it was 
tucked away in the Xiph repository somewhere.

Geoff.