Icecast dev - Aug 2004 - trouble in nullsoft land.

we actually have a XML interface into the directory...and this interface is 
freely available and can be utilized by anyone wishing to write a front end 
for it...It is available here : http://dir.xiph.org/yp.xml and is refreshed 
every minute.  Already some people are using this interface (and actually 
someone at wasabi-dev wrote a wasabi component which provides a stream 
browser to wasabi - formerly winamp3)...writing a winamp2 general plugin 
which utilizes this interface is fairly trivial, although you won't get the 
same kind of integration that the media library has, since the media 
library has access to all the winamp2 skinning interface (something that a 
general plugin does not have access to)...

tandalone programs are also out there too 
(http://freshmeat.net/projects/streamtuner/) although useful, I personally 
prefer a simple web based interface...

oddsock
At 07:11 PM 3/7/2004, you wrote:
>Brainstorming Idea:
>Possibly add an xml api to the current yp logic,
>  that way 3rd party providers could parse the stations in the yp off
>icecast.org in there media players.
>of course a plugin for winamp would be the first obvious choice(since the
>already have there own media library but uses yp.shoutcast.com), but others
>would follow.
>I remember seeing something previously at dir.xiph.org but wasnt carried
>over to the new dir at icecast.org.
>
>We would be willing to donate server space and bandwidth for the yp dir at
>icecast.org, email me offlist whoever is in charge of the icecast.org
>website if interested.
>
>
>
>
>Regards
>Dave St John
>Mediacast1 Administrator
>
>Need Support? please visit our helpdesk area
>http://mediacast1.com/helpdesk
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "oddsock" <oddsock@oddsock.org>
>To: <icecast-dev@xiph.org>
>Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 2:36 PM
>Subject: Re: [icecast-dev] trouble in nullsoft land.
>
>
> > well, I'm not sure that's the reasoning...
> >
> > from Tom P :
> > "i'm making changes to yp which will detect the presence of
mp3pro within
>a
> > non-encapsulated stream and prohibit its listing. nsv/nsa is an open
> > protocol and the authors who wish to broadcast with this format should
a)
> > rewrite the stream provider to encapsulate and broadcast in the
> > encapsulated protocol, b) discuss with christophe which identifiers
should
> > be included for formal support of the protocol within NSV, c) create a
> > playback plugin for winamp which supports the nsv/nsa encapsulation
and
> > streaming, and d) let me know when all of these things happen so I can
> > formally expose these streams via the directory to players which
properly
> > support them. "
> >
> > this tells me that they are not trying to alienate non-Shoutcast
source
> > clients (stream providers he calls them), but rather get people to
adopt
> > the NSV encapsulation protocol..   Speaking as a source client
developer
> > and knowing many of the other developers that develop source clients,
I
> > think they overestimate the willingness to move to their undocumented
and
> > proprietary encapsulation protocol, when we have something so open and
>free
> > as ogg...
> >
> > I also just don't get the desire to move to mp3pro..I mean, if you
are
> > going to make your listeners download a plugin to listen to your
station,
> > why not just switch to vorbis ?  Sure, you can still listen to an
mp3pro
> > stream with a normal mp3 player, but geeze, who'd want to ?  As it
stands,
> > I think the only source client that supports mp3pro is Spacial
Audio's
> > encoder...And for what it's worth, you CAN stream mp3pro to
icecast2 :)
> >
> > oddsock
> >
> >
> > At 03:19 PM 3/7/2004, you wrote:
> > >On Sun, 7 Mar 2004, oddsock wrote:
> > >
> > > > neat, how ironic is it that you can stream mp3pro with the
Shoutcast
>DNAS,
> > > > but their YP will not let you list if you do so...talk about
your
>mixed
> > > > messages...
> > >
> > >I think what they're trying to do here is not only block
non-SCDNAS
> > >servers, but also as many non-Shoutcast sources as they can. 
Think about
> > >it - if you're streaming MP3Pro without it being
NSV-encapsulated, you're
> > >not using a Nullsoft tool to do it.
> > >
> > >This kind of one-eyed behaviour will hopefully push people in the
>direction
> > >of finding alternatives.
> > >
> > >Geoff.
> > >
> > >--- >8 ----
> > >List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> > >icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
> > >To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
> > >'icecast-dev-request@xiph.org'
> > >containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No
subject is
>needed.
> > >Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
> >
> >
> > --- >8 ----
> > List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
> > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
>'icecast-dev-request@xiph.org'
> > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No
subject is needed.
> > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
> >
>
>
>--- >8 ----
>List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
>icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
>To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 
>'icecast-dev-request@xiph.org'
>containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is
needed.
>Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
<p>--- >8 ----
List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
'icecast-dev-request@xiph.org'
containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is
needed.
Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.

>http://dir.xiph.org/yp.xml
ahhh thats what one i was looking for, since the dir was moved it wasnt
linked up anymore.
just some ideas, but the dir intro (top 10-20 stations) should be on the
front page of icecast.org and some links for xml parsing per station in
addition to one giant heaped page.
that way stations could parse that and display there status on there page
via a php script i could write.

p.s. i know there is a mailing list but some forums would bring a community
feel to icecast.org as well.
most newbs have trouble using mailing lists and need a guidance hand (forums
accomplish that.)
overall ideas (Just my $0.02).

<p><p>Regards
Dave St John
Mediacast1 Administrator

Need Support? please visit our helpdesk area
http://mediacast1.com/helpdesk
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "oddsock" <oddsock@oddsock.org>
To: <icecast-dev@xiph.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [icecast-dev] trouble in nullsoft land.

<p>> we actually have a XML interface into the directory...and this
interface
is
> freely available and can be utilized by anyone wishing to write a front
end
> for it...It is available here : http://dir.xiph.org/yp.xml and is
refreshed
> every minute.  Already some people are using this interface (and actually
> someone at wasabi-dev wrote a wasabi component which provides a stream
> browser to wasabi - formerly winamp3)...writing a winamp2 general plugin
> which utilizes this interface is fairly trivial, although you won't get
the
> same kind of integration that the media library has, since the media
> library has access to all the winamp2 skinning interface (something that a
> general plugin does not have access to)...
>
> standalone programs are also out there too
> (http://freshmeat.net/projects/streamtuner/) although useful, I personally
> prefer a simple web based interface...
>
> oddsock
> At 07:11 PM 3/7/2004, you wrote:
> >Brainstorming Idea:
> >Possibly add an xml api to the current yp logic,
> >  that way 3rd party providers could parse the stations in the yp off
> >icecast.org in there media players.
> >of course a plugin for winamp would be the first obvious choice(since
the
> >already have there own media library but uses yp.shoutcast.com), but
others
> >would follow.
> >I remember seeing something previously at dir.xiph.org but wasnt
carried
> >over to the new dir at icecast.org.
> >
> >We would be willing to donate server space and bandwidth for the yp dir
at
> >icecast.org, email me offlist whoever is in charge of the icecast.org
> >website if interested.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Regards
> >Dave St John
> >Mediacast1 Administrator
> >
> >Need Support? please visit our helpdesk area
> >http://mediacast1.com/helpdesk
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "oddsock" <oddsock@oddsock.org>
> >To: <icecast-dev@xiph.org>
> >Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 2:36 PM
> >Subject: Re: [icecast-dev] trouble in nullsoft land.
> >
> >
> > > well, I'm not sure that's the reasoning...
> > >
> > > from Tom P :
> > > "i'm making changes to yp which will detect the presence
of mp3pro
within
> >a
> > > non-encapsulated stream and prohibit its listing. nsv/nsa is an
open
> > > protocol and the authors who wish to broadcast with this format
should
a)
> > > rewrite the stream provider to encapsulate and broadcast in the
> > > encapsulated protocol, b) discuss with christophe which
identifiers
should
> > > be included for formal support of the protocol within NSV, c)
create a
> > > playback plugin for winamp which supports the nsv/nsa
encapsulation
and
> > > streaming, and d) let me know when all of these things happen so
I can
> > > formally expose these streams via the directory to players which
properly
> > > support them. "
> > >
> > > this tells me that they are not trying to alienate non-Shoutcast
source
> > > clients (stream providers he calls them), but rather get people
to
adopt
> > > the NSV encapsulation protocol..   Speaking as a source client
developer
> > > and knowing many of the other developers that develop source
clients,
I
> > > think they overestimate the willingness to move to their
undocumented
and
> > > proprietary encapsulation protocol, when we have something so
open and
> >free
> > > as ogg...
> > >
> > > I also just don't get the desire to move to mp3pro..I mean,
if you are
> > > going to make your listeners download a plugin to listen to your
station,
> > > why not just switch to vorbis ?  Sure, you can still listen to an
mp3pro
> > > stream with a normal mp3 player, but geeze, who'd want to ? 
As it
stands,
> > > I think the only source client that supports mp3pro is Spacial
Audio's
> > > encoder...And for what it's worth, you CAN stream mp3pro to
icecast2
:)
> > >
> > > oddsock
> > >
> > >
> > > At 03:19 PM 3/7/2004, you wrote:
> > > >On Sun, 7 Mar 2004, oddsock wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > neat, how ironic is it that you can stream mp3pro with
the
Shoutcast
> >DNAS,
> > > > > but their YP will not let you list if you do so...talk
about your
> >mixed
> > > > > messages...
> > > >
> > > >I think what they're trying to do here is not only block
non-SCDNAS
> > > >servers, but also as many non-Shoutcast sources as they can. 
Think
about
> > > >it - if you're streaming MP3Pro without it being
NSV-encapsulated,
you're
> > > >not using a Nullsoft tool to do it.
> > > >
> > > >This kind of one-eyed behaviour will hopefully push people in
the
> >direction
> > > >of finding alternatives.
> > > >
> > > >Geoff.
> > > >
> > > >--- >8 ----
> > > >List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> > > >icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
> > > >To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
> > > >'icecast-dev-request@xiph.org'
> > > >containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. 
No subject is
> >needed.
> > > >Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be
ignored/filtered.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- >8 ----
> > > List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> > > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
> > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
> >'icecast-dev-request@xiph.org'
> > > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No
subject is
needed.
> > > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
> > >
> >
> >
> >--- >8 ----
> >List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> >icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
> >To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
> >'icecast-dev-request@xiph.org'
> >containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject
is
needed.
> >Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
>
>
> --- >8 ----
> List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
'icecast-dev-request@xiph.org'
> containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is
needed.
> Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
>
<p>--- >8 ----
List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
'icecast-dev-request@xiph.org'
containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is
needed.
Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.

Brainstorming Idea:
Possibly add an xml api to the current yp logic,
 that way 3rd party providers could parse the stations in the yp off
icecast.org in there media players.
of course a plugin for winamp would be the first obvious choice(since the
already have there own media library but uses yp.shoutcast.com), but others
would follow.
I remember seeing something previously at dir.xiph.org but wasnt carried
over to the new dir at icecast.org.

We would be willing to donate server space and bandwidth for the yp dir at
icecast.org, email me offlist whoever is in charge of the icecast.org
website if interested.

<p><p><p>Regards
Dave St John
Mediacast1 Administrator

Need Support? please visit our helpdesk area
http://mediacast1.com/helpdesk
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "oddsock" <oddsock@oddsock.org>
To: <icecast-dev@xiph.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [icecast-dev] trouble in nullsoft land.

<p>> well, I'm not sure that's the
reasoning...
>
> from Tom P :
> "i'm making changes to yp which will detect the presence of mp3pro
within
a
> non-encapsulated stream and prohibit its listing. nsv/nsa is an open
> protocol and the authors who wish to broadcast with this format should a)
> rewrite the stream provider to encapsulate and broadcast in the
> encapsulated protocol, b) discuss with christophe which identifiers should
> be included for formal support of the protocol within NSV, c) create a
> playback plugin for winamp which supports the nsv/nsa encapsulation and
> streaming, and d) let me know when all of these things happen so I can
> formally expose these streams via the directory to players which properly
> support them. "
>
> this tells me that they are not trying to alienate non-Shoutcast source
> clients (stream providers he calls them), but rather get people to adopt
> the NSV encapsulation protocol..   Speaking as a source client developer
> and knowing many of the other developers that develop source clients, I
> think they overestimate the willingness to move to their undocumented and
> proprietary encapsulation protocol, when we have something so open and
free
> as ogg...
>
> I also just don't get the desire to move to mp3pro..I mean, if you are
> going to make your listeners download a plugin to listen to your station,
> why not just switch to vorbis ?  Sure, you can still listen to an mp3pro
> stream with a normal mp3 player, but geeze, who'd want to ?  As it
stands,
> I think the only source client that supports mp3pro is Spacial Audio's
> encoder...And for what it's worth, you CAN stream mp3pro to icecast2 :)
>
> oddsock
>
>
> At 03:19 PM 3/7/2004, you wrote:
> >On Sun, 7 Mar 2004, oddsock wrote:
> >
> > > neat, how ironic is it that you can stream mp3pro with the
Shoutcast
DNAS,
> > > but their YP will not let you list if you do so...talk about your
mixed
> > > messages...
> >
> >I think what they're trying to do here is not only block non-SCDNAS
> >servers, but also as many non-Shoutcast sources as they can.  Think
about
> >it - if you're streaming MP3Pro without it being NSV-encapsulated,
you're
> >not using a Nullsoft tool to do it.
> >
> >This kind of one-eyed behaviour will hopefully push people in the
direction
> >of finding alternatives.
> >
> >Geoff.
> >
> >--- >8 ----
> >List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> >icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
> >To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
> >'icecast-dev-request@xiph.org'
> >containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject
is
needed.
> >Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
>
>
> --- >8 ----
> List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
'icecast-dev-request@xiph.org'
> containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is
needed.
> Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
>
<p>--- >8 ----
List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/
To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
'icecast-dev-request@xiph.org'
containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is
needed.
Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.