CentOS - Nov 2017 - low end file server with h/w RAID - recommendations

On Fri, November 3, 2017 3:36 am, hw wrote:
> Valeri Galtsev wrote:
>> If you have not Dell server hardware my choice of [hardware] RAID cards
>> would be:
>>
>> Areca
>
> Areca is forbiddingly expensive.
Yes, and it is worth every dollar it costs. All good RAID cards will be on
the same price level. Those cheaper ones I will not let into our stables
(don't get me started ranting about them...)
>
>> LSI (or whoever owns that line these days - Intel was the last one, I
>> recollect)
>>
>> With LSI beware that they have really nasty command line client, and do
>> not have raid watch daemon with web interface like late 3ware had
(alas,
>> 3ware after they were bought out several times by competitors were
drawn
>> down out of existence).
>
> I like CLIs and don??t like web interfaces ...
I _am_ a command line person myself. Yet, when dealing with RAID, I do
prefer GUI interface, as it is much harder to screw up when you use 3ware
web interface, compared to, say, 3ware command client interface, the last
being much better and clearer than LSI command client... Again, it can be
just me, or it can be the same for many people that our perception of
things in GUI is less prone to grave mistakes.

Valeri
>  3ware used to make good
> cards,
> though also expensive.
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>

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: 773-702-4247
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Valeri Galtsev wrote:
> On Fri, November 3, 2017 3:36 am, hw wrote:
>> Valeri Galtsev wrote:
<snip>
>>> LSI (or whoever owns that line these days - Intel was the last one,
I
>>> recollect)
>>>
>>> With LSI beware that they have really nasty command line client,
and do
>>> not have raid watch daemon with web interface like late 3ware had
>>> (alas, 3ware after they were bought out several times by
competitors were
>>> drawn down out of existence).
Um, er, if you think the MegaRAID command line tool his user-unfriendly,
the 3-Com one was downright user-hostile. *shudder* I'm really glad the
systems with those have been surplussed.....
>>
>> I like CLIs and don??t like web interfaces ...
>
> I _am_ a command line person myself. Yet, when dealing with RAID, I do
> prefer GUI interface, as it is much harder to screw up when you use 3ware
> web interface, compared to, say, 3ware command client interface, the last
> being much better and clearer than LSI command client... Again, it can be
> just me, or it can be the same for many people that our perception of
> things in GUI is less prone to grave mistakes.
As I said, anyone who wants an easy to use script that works with
MegaRAID< drop me an email, and I'll send it to you. It's a script,
so you
can verify it's not going to hold your RAID for ransom. <g.

     mark

Valeri Galtsev wrote:
>
> On Fri, November 3, 2017 3:36 am, hw wrote:
>> Valeri Galtsev wrote:
>>> If you have not Dell server hardware my choice of [hardware] RAID
cards
>>> would be:
>>>
>>> Areca
>>
>> Areca is forbiddingly expensive.
>
> Yes, and it is worth every dollar it costs. All good RAID cards will be on
> the same price level. Those cheaper ones I will not let into our stables
> (don't get me started ranting about them...)
How does spending between 300 and 800 for an Areca 8 port pay out when you
can get a P410 for less than 100?  Are they 3--8 times faster, 3--8 times
easier to replace, 3--8 times more reliable, 3--8 times easier to use,
3--8 times more durable, 3--8 times more energy efficient?  What is it that
makes them worthwhile?
> [...]
>> I like CLIs and don??t like web interfaces ...
>
> I _am_ a command line person myself. Yet, when dealing with RAID, I do
> prefer GUI interface, as it is much harder to screw up when you use 3ware
> web interface, compared to, say, 3ware command client interface, the last
> being much better and clearer than LSI command client... Again, it can be
> just me, or it can be the same for many people that our perception of
> things in GUI is less prone to grave mistakes.
It?s much easier to click the wrong button in a GUI than it is to enter the
wrong command in a cli.  If the cli is poor, the gui may seem much better ---
I have a switch like that and I?m pissed that the cli is so bad.  Unfortunately,
there aren?t any decent 1GB switches with at least 24 ports that are fanless :(

And how do you automate a gui?  That?s way easier to do with a cli.

On Sat, November 4, 2017 4:32 am, hw wrote:
> Valeri Galtsev wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, November 3, 2017 3:36 am, hw wrote:
>>> Valeri Galtsev wrote:
>>>> If you have not Dell server hardware my choice of [hardware]
RAID
>>>> cards
>>>> would be:
>>>>
>>>> Areca
>>>
>>> Areca is forbiddingly expensive.
>>
>> Yes, and it is worth every dollar it costs. All good RAID cards will be
>> on
>> the same price level. Those cheaper ones I will not let into our
stables
>> (don't get me started ranting about them...)
>
> How does spending between 300 and 800 for an Areca 8 port pay out when you
> can get a P410 for less than 100?  Are they 3--8 times faster, 3--8 times
> easier to replace, 3--8 times more reliable, 3--8 times easier to use,
> 3--8 times more durable, 3--8 times more energy efficient?  What is it
> that
> makes them worthwhile?
HP P410 controller is by no means close and by no means comparable with
any of Areca RAID controllers. If I'm reading the description correctly,
P410 supports: RAID 0, RAID 1, RAID 10

All the machines I need hardware RAID on use RAID 6, anything not capable
doing it is out of consideration. I can do trivial thing like mirror or
striped concatenation (RAID-1) of two devices by any brainless controller,
and speed where RAID-1 is concerned has to do with speed of devices
themselves, not that trivial "chop and shove to different devices"
controller.

Sorry, one can not compare slingshot with machine gun (my apologies about
"politically incorrect" comparison).
>
>> [...]
>>> I like CLIs and don????t like web interfaces ...
>>
>> I _am_ a command line person myself. Yet, when dealing with RAID, I do
>> prefer GUI interface, as it is much harder to screw up when you use
>> 3ware
>> web interface, compared to, say, 3ware command client interface, the
>> last
>> being much better and clearer than LSI command client... Again, it can
>> be
>> just me, or it can be the same for many people that our perception of
>> things in GUI is less prone to grave mistakes.
>
> It??s much easier to click the wrong button in a GUI than it is to enter
> the
> wrong command in a cli.
I know, people are different, I leave it it to everyone's own decision
with oneself. The very first screwup may confirm one's beliefs or change
them to opposite.
> If the cli is poor, the gui may seem much better
> ---
> I have a switch like that and I??m pissed that the cli is so bad.
> Unfortunately,
> there aren??t any decent 1GB switches with at least 24 ports that are
> fanless :(
>
> And how do you automate a gui?
I do not. As web interface 3ware has is provided by the daemon, in which
you can configure all automated actions you need, and that daemon will do
it according to your schedule (but rather the controller itself does most
of them as configured through web interface). Those who used 3ware cards
do know it and do use that nice feature.
>  That??s way easier to do with a cli.
And yes, when with one controller GUI daemon was failing to do one task I
needed, I did use UNIX cron job which was executing what was necessary
through cli interface.


This does not change my perception that _I_ with my mentality have less
chance to screw up and obliterate RAID array when I need, say, to start
rebuild if _I_ use GUI web interface, as opposed to command line interface
(cli). Even if it is just me, I stay convinced to keep doing it this way
which is safer for the data of my users that live on RAID I am dealing
with.

And still after all that said, I am basically command line person ;-)

Valeri
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS at centos.org
> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: 773-702-4247
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++