On Wed, 2017-06-07 at 11:23 -0500, Johnny Hughes wrote:> If you want to create a CentOS-7 variant that does not use systemd, > then start a Special Interest Group and create modified packages > to use something else instead ......., much like the this group did > with Debian: > > https://devuan.org/ > > In the case of CentOS-7 .. you don't need to create a whole new > distro, you can just petition the CentOS Project Board to create a > Special Interest Group to get access to CentOS Project controlled > resources to build packages (and get them rolled into our mirrors, > etc.) to use something other than systemd.Excellent idea. I'll gladly sign any such petition :-) -- Regards, Paul. England, EU. England's place is in the European Union.
On 6/7/2017 11:28 AM, Always Learning wrote:>> In the case of CentOS-7 .. you don't need to create a whole new >> distro, you can just petition the CentOS Project Board to create a >> Special Interest Group to get access to CentOS Project controlled >> resources to build packages (and get them rolled into our mirrors, >> etc.) to use something other than systemd. > Excellent idea. I'll gladly sign any such petition:-)but will you contribute to building the non-systemd packages, and working out how to retrofit old sysV init back into everything via patches, etc ? every RPM that interacts with systemd will need to be 'fixed' to do it the old way, with init.d scripts. repositories like postgres, EPEL, etc won't work, either, as their C7 packaged daemons are all configured to use systemd. -- john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz
On 06/07/2017 02:02 PM, John R Pierce wrote:> On 6/7/2017 11:28 AM, Always Learning wrote: >>> In the case of CentOS-7 .. you don't need to create a whole new >>> distro, you can just petition the CentOS Project Board to create a >>> Special Interest Group to get access to CentOS Project controlled >>> resources to build packages (and get them rolled into our mirrors, >>> etc.) to use something other than systemd. >> Excellent idea. I'll gladly sign any such petition:-) > > > but will you contribute to building the non-systemd packages, and > working out how to retrofit old sysV init back into everything via > patches, etc ? every RPM that interacts with systemd will need to be > 'fixed' to do it the old way, with init.d scripts. repositories like > postgres, EPEL, etc won't work, either, as their C7 packaged daemons are > all configured to use systemd. > >Exactly what John said. What I meant by petitioning the board is for a group of people who are willing to actually contribute the time/effort required to make/modify software that would use something other than systemd. If such a group exists, and if that group wanted a way to get such software into CentOS, they could petition (ask) for the starting of a SIG. If there are not people willing to invest that effort, then we get what we get from the released source code. We don't need people to tell us they don't like it .. just like we don't need people to tell us the want they want the upgrade tool to work. We need people who will actually DO SOMETHING to volunteer to do said something in order for these (or any other things) to actually happen. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: <http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20170607/76b4ab19/attachment-0001.sig>
On Wed, June 7, 2017 2:02 pm, John R Pierce wrote:> On 6/7/2017 11:28 AM, Always Learning wrote: >>> In the case of CentOS-7 .. you don't need to create a whole new >>> distro, you can just petition the CentOS Project Board to create a >>> Special Interest Group to get access to CentOS Project controlled >>> resources to build packages (and get them rolled into our mirrors, >>> etc.) to use something other than systemd. >> Excellent idea. I'll gladly sign any such petition:-) > > > but will you contribute to building the non-systemd packages, and > working out how to retrofit old sysV init back into everything via > patches, etc ? every RPM that interacts with systemd will need to be > 'fixed' to do it the old way, with init.d scripts. repositories like > postgres, EPEL, etc won't work, either, as their C7 packaged daemons are > all configured to use systemd.I agree, John. We respect CentOS for what it is (blatantly said, being RHEL binary replica, I know it is more...). Debian/devuan is a core system developers team split. You want similar core system developers split here - the place is RedHat, not CentOS and this definitely will not happen (note the difference between debian.org and redhat.com). So, the only productive thing about systemd on CentOS list will be to drop all battles, accept systemd as our reality, and keep all posts restricted to pure technical questions/answers. Just my $0.02 Valeri ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On Wed, 2017-06-07 at 12:02 -0700, John R Pierce wrote:> but will you contribute to building the non-systemd packages, and > working out how to retrofit old sysV init back into everything via > patches, etc ? every RPM that interacts with systemd will need to be > 'fixed' to do it the old way, with init.d scripts. repositories like > postgres, EPEL, etc won't work, either, as their C7 packaged daemons are > all configured to use systemd.I'll do what I can providing people recognise I'm currently grossly overloaded with community and family responsibilities and currently am lucky if I get 6 hours sleep a day. However I'll try. What is the advantage of patches over a virgin version that can be subsequently patched ? -- Regards, Paul. England, EU. England's place is in the European Union.
On Jun 7, 2017, at 1:02 PM, John R Pierce <pierce at hogranch.com> wrote:> > every RPM that interacts with systemd will need to be 'fixed' to do it the old way, with init.d scripts. repositories like postgres, EPEL, etc won't work, either, as their C7 packaged daemons are all configured to use systemd.That?s just skimming the surface. The real hard bits come from the way systemd hooks into the whole FreeDesktop infrastructure and vice versa. (e.g. dbus is now inextricably part of systemd, and many FreeDesktop interactions happen via dbus.) This is why the BSDs are either dropping GNOME and KDE (e.g. Lumina in TrueOS) or have badly lagging ports compared to the upstream version. I suspect it?s probably easier to start with C6, then backport as much as is possible without dragging in any systemd stuff, the same way the BSDs are doing. Good luck to y?all. Sincerely. I plan to keep on using C7, warts and all.